logic and sense

[nobleseed]

2 minutes ago, GreyJay said:

@nobleseed

I'm not comfortable with releasing my logical mind either, but I do, for a few reasons.

The first reason is that life experience has humbled me. If you put your faith in your own ability to reason, but that path leads you into death, darkness and decrease, why continue on that path? If simple faith in God leads you into life, light and increase, why shouldn't that experience be what gives scriptures credibility for us, regardless of our own ability to comprehend it? This was not always my thinking on the subject, but life has taken away my faith in my own logic, and I've come to regard a simple, childlike trust as more valuable in connecting intimately with our Creator, and the life He intends to see us thrive in.

Secondly, one of the things I think about regarding logic and scripture is the likelihood that we don't actually have access to all the premises needed to arrive at sound inferences or conclusions. If God has access to knowledge we don't about us, the universe, and Himself, then it seems likely that we would not be able to arrive at logically sound conclusions, since we lack access to the necessary premises. Trusting that the One who does have access to those universal truths has our best interests in mind makes it reasonable to release the need to judge the credibility of scripture by our own ability to understand it logically.

u confusing being logical and being wise in your own eyes,  Jesus talks about it in the example of sowing patches on clothing and putting wine in wine skins.  there is a logical way or right way to mend cloth and one that will not work at all and makes the tear worse.  the same with wine skins.  and is it not logical to believe in God and the risen savour.  nothing else makes sense.

[Justin Adams]

Friend, there is much yet to learn.

Take a look at the burning bush - you will see two there.

Take a look at Gideon, there are two there.

Take a look at Jeremiah 1. Not a vision, but an ACTUAL FINGER...

Anthropomorphic language accompanies THE UNIQUE ONE (monogenese) when He appears in the Tanakh.

Unmistakable. Obvious. Logical.

[GreyJay]

@nobleseed

Oh, okay, you meant

logic

- the quality of being justifiable by reason.

not

logic

- a particular system or codification of the principles of proof and inference.

If that's the case, don't most people think their "strange conclusions and even stranger beliefs" do make sense and are logical? It seems like the admonition in your op is actually that people should have faith in scripture, in spite of whatever seems to "make sense, and be logical" to them.

Edited October 14, 2019 by GreyJay

[nobleseed]

9 minutes ago, GreyJay said:

@nobleseed

Oh, okay, you meant

logic

- the quality of being justifiable by reason.

not

logic

- a particular system or codification of the principles of proof and inference.

If that's the case, don't most people think their "strange conclusions and even stranger beliefs" do make sense and are logical? It seems like the admonition in your op is actually that people should have faith in scripture, in spite of whatever seems to "make sense, and be logical" to them.

well that can be the case, but let me ask u a question, when u have breakfast in the morning do u have food or poison?  logic would tell u to have food and not poison, sure u could take poison on faith but if u did u would die.  logic and sense guide us in life and if faith had no wisdom and did not make sense then why do u believe in the first place.

[appy]

2 hours ago, nobleseed said:

and is it not logical to believe in God and the risen savour.  nothing else makes sense.

 

The first verse in Hebrews 11 says “Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.” We get assurance and conviction from the knowledge of what God has told us in his written word. We cannot please God in any way unless we have faith. Faith is a prerequisite to pleasing God. It is an absolute requirement.  As Christians, we must have faith in the risen Savior . It isn’t just believing, it’s believing and trusting God at what He has told us in His written word. No one is saying throw your mind away and believe in someone or something blindly. But our faith grows from our knowledge of God. Jesus gave us the ultimate proof that faith in Him is the type of faith we should all have.

Hebrews 11: 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

 

 

[steve morrow]

2 TIMOTHY 2:15 STUDY TO SHOW THYSELF APPROVED UNTO GOD --A WORKMAN--THAT NEEDETH NOT TO BE ASHAMED RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH 

*****PSALM 119:99 I HAVE MORE UNDERSTANDING THAN ALL MY TEACHERS FOR THY TESTIMONIES ARE MY MEDITATION***** 

PSALM 119:130 THE ENTRANCE OF THY WORDS GIVETH LIGHT IT GIVETH UNDERSTANDING UNTO THE SIMPLE  ---119:144---THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THY TESTIMONIES IS EVERLASTING GIVE ME UNDERSTANDING AND I SHALL LIVE 

PROVERBS 15:28 THE HEART OF THE RIGHTEOUS STUDIETH TO ANSWER BUT THE MOUTH OF THE WICKED POURETH OUT EVIL THINGS 

                            ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

PROVERBS 24:1 be not thou envious against evil men neither desire to be with them --24:3--for their heart studieth destruction and their lips talk of mischief 

PROVERBS 10:13 IN THE LIPS OF HIM THAT HATH UNDERSTANDING WISDOM IS FOUND ----- BUT A ROD IS FOR THE BACK OF HIM THAT IS VOID OF UNDERSTANDING ----- 10:23 IT IS SPORT TO A FOOL TO DO MISCHIEF BUT A MAN OF UNDERSTANDING HATH WISDOM 

PROVERBS 11:18 the wicked worketh a deceitful work but to him that soweth righteousness shall be a sure reward 

PROVERBS 11:2 when pride cometh then cometh shame but with the lowly is wisdom 

PROVERBS 9:6 FORSAKE THE FOOLISH AND LIVE AND GO IN THE WAY OF UNDERSTANDING 

PROVERBS 21:16 THE MAN THAT WANDERETH OUT OF THE WAY OF UNDERSTANDING SHALL REMAIN IN THE CONGREGATION OF THE DEAD

                           _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

1 CORINTHIANS 14:20 BRETHREN BE NOT CHILDREN IN UNDERSTANDING --- HOWBEIT IN MALICE BE YOU CHILDREN --- BUT IN UNDERSTANDING BE MEN 

LUKE 1:3 IT SEEMED GOOD TO ME ALSO HAVING HAD PERFECT UNDERSTANDING OF ALL THINGS FROM THE VERY FIRST TO WRITE UNTO THEE IN ORDER MOST EXCELLENT THEOPHILUS 

LUKE 2:46 and it came to pass that after three days they found HIM in the temple sitting in the midst of the doctors both hearing them and asking them questions ---2:47--- and all that heard HIM were astonished at HIS understanding and answers 

PROVERBS 22:20 have not I written unto thee excellent things in counsels and knowledge ---22:21--- that I might make thee know the certainty of the words of truth that thou mightest answer the words of truth to them that send unto thee 

PROVERBS 2:6 FOR THE LORD GIVETH WISDOM OUT OF HIS MOUTH COMETH KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING 

PROVERBS 4:5 GET WISDOM GET UNDERSTANDING FORGET IT NOT NEITHER DECLINE FROM---- THE WORDS OF MY MOUTH ----

PROVERBS 8:5 o you simple understand wisdom and you fools be you of an understanding heart ---8:14--- counsel is mine and sound wisdom I am understanding I have strength 

*****2 TIMOTHY 2:7 CONSIDER WHAT I SAY AND THE LORD GIVE YOU UNDERSTANDING IN ALL THINGS *****

1 JOHN 5:20 and we know that THE SON OF god is come and hath given an understanding that we may know HIM that is true and we are ---IN HIM THAT IS TRUE--- even in HIS SON JESUS CHRIST --- THIS IS THE TRUE GOD AND ETERNAL LIFE 

MATTHEW 7:7 ASK AND IT SHALL BE GIVEN YOU SEEK AND YOU SHALL FIND KNOCK AND IT SHALL BE OPENED UNTO YOU 

JOHN 14:13 AND WHATSOEVER YOU SHALL ASK IN --MY NAME--THAT WILL I DO THAT THE FATHER MAY BE GLORIFIED IN THE SON ---14:14-- IF YOU SHALL ASK ANYTHING ---IN MY NAME---I WILL DO IT 

*****1 JOHN 5:14 AND THIS IS THE CONFIDENCE THAT WE HAVE IN HIM THAT --IF-- WE ASK ANYTHING ACCORDING TO HIS WILL HE HEARETH US *****

                                                                                                            LOVING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST 

[lftc]

7 hours ago, nobleseed said:

well that can be the case, but let me ask u a question, when u have breakfast in the morning do u have food or poison?  logic would tell u to have food and not poison, sure u could take poison on faith but if u did u would die.  logic and sense guide us in life and if faith had no wisdom and did not make sense then why do u believe in the first place.

What source would you use to determine that the cereal is not poison?  I think you are oberserving that we as humans depend on "common sense" to make important decisions.

In modern times, there are many who believe that eating cereal with lots of sugar every day and covered with lactose rich milk is the equivalent of poison.

Using logic how would one determine that the instinctive choice to eat cereal instead of poison has not led to the same result?

[GreyJay]

8 hours ago, nobleseed said:

well that can be the case, but let me ask u a question, when u have breakfast in the morning do u have food or poison?  logic would tell u to have food and not poison, sure u could take poison on faith but if u did u would die.  logic and sense guide us in life and if faith had no wisdom and did not make sense then why do u believe in the first place.

Yeah, I think everyone here is probably saying the same things but getting hung up on terminology.

"It makes sense (is justifiable) to believe in scripture" and "I believe in scripture even though it doesn't make sense (I don't fully comprehend it)" are both valid uses of the term "makes sense," and while they seem contradictory, they're both actually trying to communicate a similar idea, in context.

Edited October 14, 2019 by GreyJay