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Last Daze

The First Seal

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An explanation of why the first seal has already been opened and who the rider of the white horse is and why.

  • Then I saw when the Lamb broke one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, “Come.”  I looked, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.  Revelation 6:1-2

The chronology of the last days goes like this: the gospel shall be preached around the world, then the end shall come (Matt 24:14).  This is restated in Revelation as "the things which are" and "the things that take place afterwards" (Rev 1:19).  In other words, God is going to fulfill His promise to Abraham in that all the nations would be blessed through the gospel of Jesus Christ, and then the end will come, a process which begins with the opening of the first seal.

The preaching of the gospel around the world is known as the times of the Gentiles.  We know that this has already been fulfilled because Jerusalem is not being trampled under foot by the Gentiles (Luke 21:24).  Since that's true, we know that we are somewhere in the process of God bringing about the end, which means that the first seal has been opened.  This is also evidenced in the presence of the feet of iron and clay kingdom in Daniel 2.  That multinational, multi-ethnic world kingdom is fulfilled in the U.N.  Since the first seal has been opened, and the final world kingdom exists, its reasonable to assume a link between the two, a cause and effect.

Daniel 10 teaches that there are evil spirit beings that bring about world kingdoms.  We know from Daniel 7 that the beast with 10 horns brings about the final world kingdom.  Revelation 17:8 says that the beast with 10 horns will at some point come up out of the abyss.  Since the abyss is a place of restraint for evil spirit beings, he would have to be released before the final world kingdom could come about, which it has.

Consequently, it stands to reason that the first seal has already been opened and that the white horse rider is the evil spirit beast with 10 horns.  He has brought about the final world kingdom, the feet of iron and clay, which is pushing a globalist agenda.  He is able to conquer through lies and deception.  He was given a crown because his final world kingdom does not have a king so he serves as its king, at least until the man of sin is revealed.  That is what is meant in Rev 17:11 where the beast is considered an 8th king and is of the seven. 

I'd be happy to clarify and discuss this view if anyone is interested.  I know that everyone sees things differently, and that's fine, I'm not going to argue.  I'm perfectly happy to let other people have their views on the subject.  It's pretty clear to me that we are in the time of the end and what's important is that we stay awake and continue to be light in a world in darkness and endure to the end.

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I believe that the Rapture happens before the Seals are broken. Your timeline is off, in my opinion.

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21 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

An explanation of why the first seal has already been opened and who the rider of the white horse is and why.

  • Then I saw when the Lamb broke one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, “Come.”  I looked, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.  Revelation 6:1-2

The chronology of the last days goes like this: the gospel shall be preached around the world, then the end shall come (Matt 24:14).  This is restated in Revelation as "the things which are" and "the things that take place afterwards" (Rev 1:19).  In other words, God is going to fulfill His promise to Abraham in that all the nations would be blessed through the gospel of Jesus Christ, and then the end will come, a process which begins with the opening of the first seal.

The preaching of the gospel around the world is known as the times of the Gentiles.  We know that this has already been fulfilled because Jerusalem is not being trampled under foot by the Gentiles (Luke 21:24).  Since that's true, we know that we are somewhere in the process of God bringing about the end, which means that the first seal has been opened.  This is also evidenced in the presence of the feet of iron and clay kingdom in Daniel 2.  That multinational, multi-ethnic world kingdom is fulfilled in the U.N.  Since the first seal has been opened, and the final world kingdom exists, its reasonable to assume a link between the two, a cause and effect.

Daniel 10 teaches that there are evil spirit beings that bring about world kingdoms.  We know from Daniel 7 that the beast with 10 horns brings about the final world kingdom.  Revelation 17:8 says that the beast with 10 horns will at some point come up out of the abyss.  Since the abyss is a place of restraint for evil spirit beings, he would have to be released before the final world kingdom could come about, which it has.

Consequently, it stands to reason that the first seal has already been opened and that the white horse rider is the evil spirit beast with 10 horns.  He has brought about the final world kingdom, the feet of iron and clay, which is pushing a globalist agenda.  He is able to conquer through lies and deception.  He was given a crown because his final world kingdom does not have a king so he serves as its king, at least until the man of sin is revealed.  That is what is meant in Rev 17:11 where the beast is considered an 8th king and is of the seven. 

I'd be happy to clarify and discuss this view if anyone is interested.  I know that everyone sees things differently, and that's fine, I'm not going to argue.  I'm perfectly happy to let other people have their views on the subject.  It's pretty clear to me that we are in the time of the end and what's important is that we stay awake and continue to be light in a world in darkness and endure to the end.

The first seal has not been opened because the rapture of the Church has not occurred yet. 

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41 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

An explanation of why the first seal has already been opened and who the rider of the white horse is and why.

  • Then I saw when the Lamb broke one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, “Come.”  I looked, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.  Revelation 6:1-2

The chronology of the last days goes like this: the gospel shall be preached around the world, then the end shall come (Matt 24:14).  This is restated in Revelation as "the things which are" and "the things that take place afterwards" (Rev 1:19).  In other words, God is going to fulfill His promise to Abraham in that all the nations would be blessed through the gospel of Jesus Christ, and then the end will come, a process which begins with the opening of the first seal.

The preaching of the gospel around the world is known as the times of the Gentiles.  We know that this has already been fulfilled because Jerusalem is not being trampled under foot by the Gentiles (Luke 21:24).  Since that's true, we know that we are somewhere in the process of God bringing about the end, which means that the first seal has been opened.  This is also evidenced in the presence of the feet of iron and clay kingdom in Daniel 2.  That multinational, multi-ethnic world kingdom is fulfilled in the U.N.  Since the first seal has been opened, and the final world kingdom exists, its reasonable to assume a link between the two, a cause and effect.

Daniel 10 teaches that there are evil spirit beings that bring about world kingdoms.  We know from Daniel 7 that the beast with 10 horns brings about the final world kingdom.  Revelation 17:8 says that the beast with 10 horns will at some point come up out of the abyss.  Since the abyss is a place of restraint for evil spirit beings, he would have to be released before the final world kingdom could come about, which it has.

Consequently, it stands to reason that the first seal has already been opened and that the white horse rider is the evil spirit beast with 10 horns.  He has brought about the final world kingdom, the feet of iron and clay, which is pushing a globalist agenda.  He is able to conquer through lies and deception.  He was given a crown because his final world kingdom does not have a king so he serves as its king, at least until the man of sin is revealed.  That is what is meant in Rev 17:11 where the beast is considered an 8th king and is of the seven. 

I'd be happy to clarify and discuss this view if anyone is interested.  I know that everyone sees things differently, and that's fine, I'm not going to argue.  I'm perfectly happy to let other people have their views on the subject.  It's pretty clear to me that we are in the time of the end and what's important is that we stay awake and continue to be light in a world in darkness and endure to the end.

The First Seal or  White Horse is the Conquering Anti-Christ being RELEASED over a 42 month period. The 2nd Seal or  Red Horse is the same Anti-Christ taking PEACE from the earth over a 42 month period. Likewise the 3rd and 4th Seal are also the Anti-Christ's actions over a 42 month period of time. The 5th Seal are the Martyrs over a 42 month period of time, all these seals are opened on day 1261, which leaves 1260 days until the Second Coming. That is why its called the 1260 in Dan. 12. 

The Sixth Seal is also opened on day 1261, it is God's Wrath being announced. These all happen within seconds of each other, Satan is cast down, thus he chases the Woman {Israel} into the Wilderness where she remains for 1260 days. 

White Horse represents a Conqueror, just like Jesus will be Conquering when he returns, so does the Anti-Christ Conquer when he rules.

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On 11/3/2019 at 11:39 AM, Last Daze said:

I'm perfectly happy to let other people have their views on the subject.

Off topic but isn't this troublesome? 

I mean if it's the Spirit of God that gives prophecy there aren't many interpretations, there cannot be.

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4 hours ago, Diaste said:

Off topic but isn't this troublesome? 

I mean if it's the Spirit of God that gives prophecy there aren't many interpretations, there cannot be.

I'm not advocating for eschatological ignorance.  Jesus, Himself said, "Behold, I have told you in advance."  We should behold what we've been told. 

What I'm against is the contention that arises as we engage in the process of discussion and understanding.  If we seek the truth, the Spirit of truth will lead us to see things similarly and eventually we will agree.  The key is that we remain teachable in the pursuit of truth.  Too many quit too early and become contentious.

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On 11/3/2019 at 1:39 PM, Last Daze said:

I'd be happy to clarify and discuss this view if anyone is interested.  I know that everyone sees things differently, and that's fine, I'm not going to argue.  I'm perfectly happy to let other people have their views on the subject.  It's pretty clear to me that we are in the time of the end and what's important is that we stay awake and continue to be light in a world in darkness and endure to the end.

 

I tend to agree that the first seal, and possibly the first four have been opened already.  I think in many ways we already see the instruments in place to make all of our lives extremely uncomfortable in very short order.  In some places in the world, the cost of putting food on the table for a person already exceeds a daily wage for example, so I think sometimes in western society we tend to forget to look what is happening beyond our own borders.  Also, how quickly that could happen to us.

I'm not convinced that the beast is here yet though, which I kind of touched on in the other thread, however I do think it is very likely that the instruments are in place.  Let's say the thought that there is a man, who is apparently killed, is restored to life and thus becomes the beast.  I would say if that ideology is true, then that man would most likely be alive right now, but I don't see him as the beast yet.

I don't disagree with what you said in the other thread, that just because it doesn't say anything about the abyss being opened here doesn't mean it isn't possible.  It is possible, of course.  The question is, why would it not be said until later?  I mean technically, it isn't information we necessarily need to know at all in either case, unless there is a reason for it.  So the absence of it at the first seal gives me pause, also, I am not sure that this "beast" is really going to be restrained once he is set loose.  I guess in a way, when we consider that something is restraining him for a specific time, that once he is set loose nothing restrains him, at least not according to what I see in scripture.

Maybe I'm just not quite understanding your entire thought line here, so if I have gone off course let me know, interested in continuing the discussion.  I am undecided on the first four seals basically, not sure I have heard any theory that strikes me as right yet.  I do though get the impression they have been opened, or at least some of them have been.  I try to keep in mind that until Jesus comes, things will go on as they have always been, so at the point these seals are opened everything will appear to still be normal.  The fact that most Christians I knows seem to have this sense we are living in the end times, it is either something we all feel a spiritual way, or we are all mistaken.  I don't believe we are all mistaken, there is something at work here.

 

God bless

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6 hours ago, wingnut- said:

I tend to agree that the first seal, and possibly the first four have been opened already.

Agree about the first seal.  The rationale is pretty straightforward and scriptural.  I associate the second seal with the time of war that Jesus describes in Matthew 24.

  • You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes.  But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.  Matthew 24:6-8

When we look at the progression that's laid out in Matthew 24 and Revelation, this time of war is followed by persecution of the saints and then the plagues.  Also, in Daniel 7 we see a war between the little horn and three of the 10 horns which is followed by persecution of the saints.  I think it speaks to the same time in the progression of events.  So, the sequencing is widespread war, the rise of the little horn, persecution of the saints, the plagues. 

Since Jesus identifies the time of war as the beginning of birth pangs, the subsequent events should take place quickly.  In my mind, that rules out WW2 as the time of war and there hasn't been a widespread war since, and we haven't seen the rise of the little horn which precipitates from the time of war.  So I see the second seal as describing a (not too) future event.  In my estimation, the time of war is being orchestrated (behind the scenes) for the primary purpose of bringing the man of sin to the fore.

6 hours ago, wingnut- said:

I'm not convinced that the beast is here yet though, which I kind of touched on in the other thread, however I do think it is very likely that the instruments are in place.  Let's say the thought that there is a man, who is apparently killed, is restored to life and thus becomes the beast.  I would say if that ideology is true, then that man would most likely be alive right now, but I don't see him as the beast yet.

In order to avoid confusion, I think we should agree on terminology.  I did a short video on The Evil Trio who are described in Revelation if you're interested.  In a nutshell:

  • The dragon is Satan, an evil spirit being
  • The beast from the sea (abyss) with 10 horns is an evil spirit being
  • The beast from the earth is the false prophet - the only human

When I use the term "beast" I use it in reference to the evil spirit being who comes up out of the abyss.  When referring to the only human of the trio, the false prophet is preferred, but man of sin, son of perdition, little horn, and antichrist are also commonly used.

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On 11/8/2019 at 9:33 AM, Last Daze said:

Agree about the first seal.  The rationale is pretty straightforward and scriptural.

 

It makes sense to me that this one would be open, though I'm not dogmatic in regards to any of them being open.  So in regards to the rest of my comments these are just thoughts to consider, not something I am convinced of to any degree.

 

On 11/8/2019 at 9:33 AM, Last Daze said:

I associate the second seal with the time of war that Jesus describes in Matthew 24.

  • You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes.  But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.  Matthew 24:6-8

When we look at the progression that's laid out in Matthew 24 and Revelation, this time of war is followed by persecution of the saints and then the plagues.  Also, in Daniel 7 we see a war between the little horn and three of the 10 horns which is followed by persecution of the saints.  I think it speaks to the same time in the progression of events.  So, the sequencing is widespread war, the rise of the little horn, persecution of the saints, the plagues. 

 

The thing with this is, one could easily point to widespread war for a very long period of time.  Just for clarity here are a few links to show what I am referring to in that there have been very few moments of peace since 1945.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars:_1945–1989

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars:_1990–2002

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars:_2003–present

 

In regards to the persecution aspect, this has also been ongoing, dating back to the very start of the church.  It just hasn't reached us here yet, though the means to do so in short order are within sight.  The same would be true of the plagues, famines, earthquakes, tornadoes, tsunamis, volcanic eruptions, hurricanes, etc.  have all been fairly consistent yet as time goes on they also seem to be intensifying.  That could just be because there are more people now so death tolls increase as a result of it.

I guess some clarification would help on this, so I'll just ask you this question.  Do you believe that those conditions will exist for everyone for those seals to be opened, or would it just have to exist for a majority?

 

On 11/8/2019 at 9:33 AM, Last Daze said:

In my mind, that rules out WW2 as the time of war and there hasn't been a widespread war since, and we haven't seen the rise of the little horn which precipitates from the time of war. 

 

I think the reason WWII is a focal point is because of the end result, the establishment of Israel as a nation again.  It certainly has some influence on the prophetic time clock, but doesn't necessarily have to be related to the seals themselves, so I think we agree on that.  That being said, the occurrence of war, or the rumors of wars that never took place have not subsided over the course of time from then until now.

 

On 11/8/2019 at 9:33 AM, Last Daze said:

So I see the second seal as describing a (not too) future event.  In my estimation, the time of war is being orchestrated (behind the scenes) for the primary purpose of bringing the man of sin to the fore.

 

It is certainly possible you are correct, in fact, some of these wars taking place in the Middle East right now may well be exactly the wars that bring the man of sin to the surface.

 

On 11/8/2019 at 9:33 AM, Last Daze said:

In a nutshell:

  • The dragon is Satan, an evil spirit being
  • The beast from the sea (abyss) with 10 horns is an evil spirit being
  • The beast from the earth is the false prophet - the only human

When I use the term "beast" I use it in reference to the evil spirit being who comes up out of the abyss. 

 

Ok, I have no issue in using those terms for clarity.  Considering how you worded this though, I have to again ask about the beast aspect.  Is this the beast you believe is already here as of the first seal?

 

 

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23 hours ago, wingnut- said:

In regards to the persecution aspect, this has also been ongoing, dating back to the very start of the church.  It just hasn't reached us here yet, though the means to do so in short order are within sight.  The same would be true of the plagues, famines, earthquakes, tornadoes, tsunamis, volcanic eruptions, hurricanes, etc.  have all been fairly consistent yet as time goes on they also seem to be intensifying.  That could just be because there are more people now so death tolls increase as a result of it.

Piecing together Rev 13, Matthew 24, and Daniel 7, I see a specific time of war (seals 2-4) followed by a global specific time (3.5 years) of the saints being persecuted by the man of sin (seal 5).  That hasn't happened yet which is why I think that only the first seal has been opened.

23 hours ago, wingnut- said:

I guess some clarification would help on this, so I'll just ask you this question.  Do you believe that those conditions will exist for everyone for those seals to be opened, or would it just have to exist for a majority?

Seals 2-4 address a time of war which I believe is responsible for the ensuing famine and plagues.  The time of war is described as nation rising against nation and kingdom against kingdom.  I expect that not many nations, if any, will come through unscathed.  I'm not sure any of the other conditions, outside of earthquakes, are seal related.

23 hours ago, wingnut- said:

Ok, I have no issue in using those terms for clarity.  Considering how you worded this though, I have to again ask about the beast aspect.  Is this the beast you believe is already here as of the first seal?

Yes, the evil spirit being.

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