women in the pulpit

[the watchman]

maybe if more men would step up to the plate. maybe the women wouldn't have to  . who reaches the majority of s.s classes ? women... who goes to church more often on there own? women  . most cases the man stays home  while the wife goes    

[Equippers]

On 11/4/2019 at 1:22 PM, dhchristian said:

Hi all, if this is better in the controversial topics, feel free to move it there. There is a big divide occurring in the SBC over  women in the pulpit, but it is more than just that. I will not name names here, but you can look it up if you like, One of the woman is closely associated with President Trump. My Question is what are your thoughts on women in the Pulpit, and what Scripture says about this? I am starting this because I feel this is a political attack that is being orchestrated for political purposes to divide the vote. Do You see this or not?

The point of this post is a preemptive strike against such a move, that when these things come to the forefront they will not surprise you, and you will know how to respond to those who have questions.  

i think this should not be a political correct issue, or move on with the time issue, but a biblical issue.

what does the Bible say?

1 Timothy 2:11-12 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent

[dhchristian]

18 hours ago, Last Child said:

Look, I don’t seek to get into an argument here. That’s not the point I’m trying to make. The point is this: I never hear that anyone ever considers that in the beginning, man and woman were created equally and put into an equal partnership. Adam was never put over Eve before the fall. You will not find that explicit in scripture. And the Hebrew translation for the text of her creation and their assignment to the garden was not a patriarchal setup at all. It was a partnership opposite but equal. Just beautiful. The why she was taken from his side. Not chosen from among the animals in his care. And Jesus’ deaths and resurrection restored that, and Paul’s instructions, if you read them carefully in the Greek in their proper context, actually holds that mutual submission and partnership, equal but opposite roles up.

You raise a great point here about the created order and the fallen order and the redemptive order roles of woman. Wayne222 also raises a great point in the following...

 

17 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

Paul said eve was deceived

As lastchild and Wayne222 raise worthy yet contrary points, here in lies the discrepancy. Woman are equal yet different as per the created Order, and the redemptive order. is there something in this difference that led Eve to be more vulnerable to deception? This is a question we all have to answer. Could this be the impetus for the exclusion of woman in the pastoral role, but not the evangelical role? An Evangelist brings sheep into the fold, a pastor shepherds the sheep. Sometimes wolves in sheep's clothing try to sneak in to the fold, and the shepherd has to rise up against the wolves. Is a male more capable of this than a woman? Other times sheep come in that are not of the LORD, and they must eventually be removed. Is a male more capable of this role?

What I am asking here are hard questions to answer in our society where woman are told to be like men. Is that the ideal structure of a familial relationship? Is the church set up like a family?  We can make this a unifying issue, and not a dividing issue if we are honest with our strengths and our weaknesses as genders, and form that "Mutual submission and partnership", allowing for "equal and opposite roles."

I Do agree with Lastchild that the KJV is written and translated from a patriarchal and monarchial perspective and the translation reflects that as opposed to modern translations which are from a more democratic and gender neutral perspective. I think we need to see both views as valuable, for one day soon we will be living under the rule of the King of kings and He is a man, and we all will submit to His rule then.... Amen!  

[steve morrow]

DOERS NOT HEARERS ONLY

1 CORINTHIANS 6:5 I speak to your shame is it so that there is not ---A WISE MAN AMONG YOU--- no not one that shall be able to JUDGE between his brethren 

TITUS 1:13 this witness is true wherefore ---REBUKE THEM SHARPLY--- that they may be sound in the faith --1:14--not giving heed ---TO JEWISH FABLES AND COMMANDMENTS OF MEN---that turn from the truth --1:15--unto the pure all things are pure but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure but even their mind and conscience is defiled --1:16-- THEY PROFESS THAT THEY KNOW GOD---but in works they deny HIM being abominable and disobedient and unto every good work reprobate 

*******PSALM 33:4-- for the word of THE LORD is right---AND ALL HIS WORKS ARE DONE IN TRUTH*******

LUKE 9:26 for whosoever shall be ashamed of ME and MY words of him shall THE SON OF MAN be ashamed ---WHEN HE SHALL COME IN HIS OWN GLORY---and in HIS FATHERS and of the holy angels 

TITUS 3:9 but avoid foolish questions and genealogies ---AND CONTENTIONS AND STRIVINGS ABOUT THE LAW --- for they are unprofitable and vain --3:10-- a man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition --- REJECT ---

PROVERBS 15:10 correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way ---AND HE THAT HATETH REPROOF SHALL DIE 

JOHN 14:6 JESUS saith unto him --I am the way--the truth--and the life--no man cometh unto THE FATHER but by ME

*******PROVERBS 21:16 the man ---THAT WANDERETH OUT OF THE WAY --- shall remain in the congregation of the dead*******

PSALM 26:4 I have not sat with vain persons ---neither will I go in with DISSEMBLERS/PRETENDERS

PSALM 31:18 let the lying lips be put to silence which speak grievous things proudly and contemptuously against the righteous

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

ISAIAH 42:9 ---BEHOLD THE FORMER THINGS ARE COME TO PASS ---and new things do I declare before they spring forth ---I TELL YOU OF THEM---

JEREMIAH 31:31 ---BEHOLD THE DAYS COME---SAITH THE LORD--- that I will make a new covenant with the house of israel and with the house of judah

HEBREWS 8:7 for if that first covenant had been faultless then should no place have been sought for the second --8:8--for finding fault with them he saith ---BEHOLD THE DAYS COME SAITH THE LORD--- when I will make a new covenant with the house of israel and with the house of Judah ……...8:13-- in that HE saith a new covenant ---HE HATH MADE THE FIRST OLD---now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away

*******ACTS 22:12 and one ananias a devout man according to the law having a good report of all the jews which dwelt there --22:13--came unto me and stood and said unto me brother saul receive thy sight and the same hour I looked upon him --22:14--and he said ---THE GOD OF OUR FATHERS HATH CHOSEN THEE THAT THOU SHOULDEST KNOW HIS WILL---and see that JUST ONE and shouldest hear the voice of HIS mouth*******

1 CORINTHIANS 14:34 let your women keep silence in the churches for it is not permitted unto them to speak but ---THEY ARE COMMANDED---to be under obedience as also saith the law

1 TIMOTHY 2:11 let the woman learn in silence with ---ALL SUBJECTION---2:12--but I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurp authority over the man

---BUT TO BE IN SILENCE---

1 CORINTHIANS 11:3 but I would have you know that the head of every man is CHRIST and the head of the woman is the man and the ---HEAD OF CHRIST IS GOD---

COLOSSIANS 1:18 AND HE IS THE HEAD OF THE BODY --THE CHURCH--who is the beginning the firstborn from the dead that ---IN ALL THINGS HE MIGHT HAVE THE PREEMINENCE 

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

PROVERBS 15:9 the way of the wicked is an abomination unto THE LORD ---BUT HE LOVETH HIM THAT FOLLOWETH AFTER RIGHTEOUSNESS---

PROVERBS 8:20 I lead in --THE WAY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS--in the midst of the paths of judgement

1 CORINTHIANS 15:34 awake to righteousness and sin not for some have not the knowledge of GOD ---I SPEAK THIS TO YOUR SHAME---

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

PSALM 50:16 but unto the wicked ---GOD SAITH---what hast thou to do to declare MY statutes or that thou shouldest take ---MY COVENANT---in thy mouth --50:17--SEEING THOU HATEST INSTRUCTION---and castest --MY WORDS-- behind thee 

 

LOVING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST ***AND HIS WAYS***

[Wayne222]

5 hours ago, dhchristian said:

You raise a great point here about the created order and the fallen order and the redemptive order roles of woman. Wayne222 also raises a great point in the following...

 

As lastchild and Wayne222 raise worthy yet contrary points, here in lies the discrepancy. Woman are equal yet different as per the created Order, and the redemptive order. is there something in this difference that led Eve to be more vulnerable to deception? This is a question we all have to answer. Could this be the impetus for the exclusion of woman in the pastoral role, but not the evangelical role? An Evangelist brings sheep into the fold, a pastor shepherds the sheep. Sometimes wolves in sheep's clothing try to sneak in to the fold, and the shepherd has to rise up against the wolves. Is a male more capable of this than a woman? Other times sheep come in that are not of the LORD, and they must eventually be removed. Is a male more capable of this role?

What I am asking here are hard questions to answer in our society where woman are told to be like men. Is that the ideal structure of a familial relationship? Is the church set up like a family?  We can make this a unifying issue, and not a dividing issue if we are honest with our strengths and our weaknesses as genders, and form that "Mutual submission and partnership", allowing for "equal and opposite roles."

I Do agree with Lastchild that the KJV is written and translated from a patriarchal and monarchial perspective and the translation reflects that as opposed to modern translations which are from a more democratic and gender neutral perspective. I think we need to see both views as valuable, for one day soon we will be living under the rule of the King of kings and He is a man, and we all will submit to His rule then.... Amen!  

Elmxalent post. Women have different atrbute thatt God created. It's for this age not the next.

[Wayne222]

19 hours ago, BeauJangles said:

Just some final thoughts. We had several women that came to minister to the residents here. The majority are about 95% female to 5% male, and of them the same ratio are Hispanic. 

I could hear them from the room I'm in, as it's only two doors away from the dining area. That's where all the activities are when meals aren't being served. Bingo, church, and musical entertainment, etc. 

A message was being preached and then interpreted into Spanish. Thought I'd get up and go down to see what was going on spiritually speaking. Everything seemed to be fine and I hung out in the back. 

These young ladies were all pretty young. Probably in their twenties to early thirties. And at the end of their little service they asked if there were any prayer requests. No one raised a hand - here's why.

A good deal of the residents have difficulties with communicating in general. Most have some sort of dementia or another, and it's a pretty sad situation. So responding is very hard for them. 

And so these sweet gals went out to the ladies present, there weren't any men attending today for some reason. They prayed over and with a number of them. I decided to raise my hand in a request. 

One of them spotted me, and came up to aski my name and what I wanted prayer for. I told her about it, and she laid a hand on my shoulder to ask God's blessing over my life and future. Then I got a hug. 

My point is this. Women were ministering today. Get it, guys? Women. Why? Probably because some men were too busy watching the Saturday football game on TV. That's all I have to say, and I think it's sufficient. 

 

  

True brother but I dont think it's because football. Men are overwork. A lot have two jobs and then are there for there families and have to tend to problems in the house.