A Better Covenant

[BibleGuy]

5 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Lots will say tons of words. Torah as thought of by an Israeli in CONTEXT is the Tanakh. If we look at Leviticus, we will see that God is explaining His View that He wants others to understand and be able to draw close to Him and be cleansed and presentable for His presence.

Saul (Paul) says the Law leads us to Yeshua. Yeshua completed it well and did not ever sin. He is our portion even as the Israelis were God's portion. Saul further says that Laws were given for 'transgressions' and focusses on the sins of the Holy ones that fell (Galations). Saul makes much more sense in that he wants to explain that God has now a more perfect way to reach Him since Yeshua tore the veil and allowed us a clear and purified way to the Father's Throne (His Throne). The battle against sins was reversed at Yeshua's death and the regathering of the nations (see the Abrahamic covenant) and the lost tribes was kick-started at pentecost. The principalities and powers were booted out and "will die like men". The Law is/was a 'schoolmaster' to give us an idea of what is acceptable to The Most High God. We can now have His Spirit to assist us in daily walk allowing this purification to guide our lives. Saul is well aware of the Principalities and Powers that try to Hinder God's goals, but he assures us that we can do this and be victorious over all God's enemies that once were our 'friends'. Saul hooks into the Tanakh and Enoch along with Peter and Jude understanding that the real depravity on the earth was accelerated by fallen holy ones. The law was also given so that we could be 'separate' and God's design (aka Abraham and Moses) was for a kingdom of priests to intecede for the nations that once were disinherited. 

Hi there!

Thanks for your comments.....

I'd like to respond to them a bit.....

" Torah as thought of by an Israeli in CONTEXT is the Tanakh."

Well, that's not quite right.  After all, the Bible, itself, distinguishes the WRITTEN LAW OF MOSES (1Ki.2:3) from the entire Tanakh.

And, I think TORAH generally refers to this written Torah of Moses (not the entire Tanakh).

Also, TORAH (in Ge.26:5) obviously does NOT refer to the entire Tanakh....since virtually NONE of the Tanakh existed at that time!

So, the "Torah = Tanakh" viewpoint is, in a real sense, inaccurate, regardless of how many modern Jews uphold that viewpoint.

 

"Saul hooks into the Tanakh and Enoch along with Peter and Jude understanding that the real depravity on the earth was accelerated by fallen holy ones."

That's interesting....but where did Paul cite Enoch?  Maybe I forgot about that one....

 

blessings...

 

[BibleGuy]

5 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

I know how they argue.....it is impressive.....just another reason to respect them ...I love everything about the Jews and Israel.....part of having a New Heart Methinks .....lol....Zola Levitt was my favorite person on the planet....boy, do I still miss him.....  I can’t wait to see him again... “ Pray for the Peace Of Jerusalem”

Everybody! .....visit his site and check out his old videos.....you will learn much from him.....Levitt.com.....

Well....except.....I think Zola evitt was a dispensationalist....and DISPENSATIONALISM IS FALSE.

DISPENSATIONALISM claims that CHURCH is distinct from ISRAEL.

However, the Bible confirms that CHURCH = ISRAEL (e.g., Ac.7:38;Dt. 4:10).

So, learn all you can from everyone....but watch out for false teachings (like Dispensationalism....)

blessings...

 

[BibleGuy]

4 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

The Galations perverted the Gospel  Of Grace. Paul called them out and said they were fools.Legalists that come in here and cause Believers to “ fall from Grace” and have them  “ severed from the Cross Of Christ” without these poorly taught individuals even knowing  the precarious shape they are putting themselves in should expect no less.The Legalists  in here actually get by pretty easier compared to what Paul would have told them. I have never called them Fools. Jesus called some people “ Vipers”. What a “ rude attitude !”

Yes, Jesus called them VIPERS.....because (among other things) they did NOT OBEY ALL TORAH (Mt.23:23).

That's a GOOD REASON for us to obey Torah....just as Jesus requires (Mt.5:19;23:23).

By the way, I also oppose legalism.....

Legalism may be defined as SALVATION BY WORKS WITHOUT FAITH....

And of course legalism is bad (Gal.5:4-5).

But that same Paul requires Torah too (2Ti.3:16;1Cor.7:19).

Yes, we are justified by FAITH (Rom.5:1) and LAW (Rom.2:13) TOGETHER.

Not faith alone (Jas.2:24).

Not law alone (Gal.5:4-5).

Both BOTH.

TOGETHER.

blessings...

 

[BibleGuy]

3 hours ago, steve morrow said:

NEW COVENANT 

DEUTERONOMY 18:17 and THE LORD said unto me they have well spoken that which they have spoken --18:18-- I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren like unto thee and will put ---MY WORDS IN HIS MOUTH--- and HE shall speak unto them all that I shall command HIM --18:19-- and it shall come to pass that whosoever will not hearken unto MY WORDS which HE shall speak in MY NAME I will require it of him --18:20--but the prophet which shall presume to speak a word in MY NAME which I have not commanded him to speak or that shall speak in the name of other gods even that prophet shall die 

ACTS 3:22 for moses truly said unto the fathers a prophet shall THE LORD YOUR GOD raise up unto you of your brethren like unto me HIM shall you hear in all things whatsoever ---HE SHALL SAY UNTO YOU--- 3:23-- and it shall come to pass ---THAT EVERY SOUL---which will not hear that prophet ---SHALL BE DESTROYED FROM AMONG THE PEOPLE 

PROVERBS 8:7 ---FOR MY MOUTH SHALL SPEAK TRUTH--- and wickedness is an abomination to MY lips --8:8-- all the words of ---MY MOUTH ARE IN RIGHTEOUSNESS--- there is nothing froward or perverse in them 

PROVERBS 8:20 ---I LEAD IN THE WAY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS--- in the midst of the paths of judgement

PROVERBS 8:30 then I was by HIM as one brought up with HIM and I was daily HIS delight rejoicing always before HIM --8:31--rejoicing in the habitable part of this earth and MY delights were with the sons of men 

*******PROVERBS 8:32 now therefore ---HEARKEN UNTO ME---o you children for blessed are they ---THAT KEEP MY WAYS--- 8:33-- hear instruction and be wise and refuse it not --8:34--blessed is the man that heareth watching daily at MY gates waiting at the posts of MY doors *******

*******PROVERBS 8:35 for whoso findeth ME findeth life and shall obtain favor of THE LORD --8:36--but he that sinneth against ME wrongeth his own soul all they that hate me love death *******

COLOSSIANS 1:13 who hath delivered us from the power of darkness and hath translated us into ---THE KINGDOM OF HIS DEAR SON---

COLOSSIANS 1:16 for by HIM were all things created that are in heaven and that are in earth visible and invisible whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities or powers ---ALL THINGS WERE CREATED BY HIM AND FOR HIM---1:17--and HE is before all things and by HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST

PROVERBS 8:14 counsel is mine and sound wisdom ---I AM UNDERSTANDING--- I have strength 

PROVERBS 21:16 the man that wandereth out of the way of understanding shall remain in the congregation of the dead 

2 TIMOTHY 2:7 consider what I say and THE LORD give thee understanding in all things 

*******PROVERBS 18:21 death and life are in the power of the tongue and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof 

 

 

LOVING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST 

Hi there!  Lots of nice Scripture!

By the way, I especially like the Dt. 18 passage you cited....because it shows that Jesus is LIKE UNTO MOSES....

CONCLUSION:  Jesus upholds Torah JUST LIKE MOSES!

That's another good reason for us to obey Torah....(Mt.5:19)

blessings...

 

[BibleGuy]

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

OPPS!  You continue to promote the law, but then tell us we are unable to obey the law (which I agree with) so you are condemning us by the law.  Either you live by the law or by grace, there is no dual commitment here.

"You continue to promote the law"

Yes....because the law is likewise promoted by:

Jesus (Mt.5:19)

God (Dt. 1:3;5:27-33)

The Spirit (Heb.10:15-16;Eze.36:27;Is.59:20-21;Rom.8:7,13)

Paul (2Ti.3:16;1Cor.7:19)

John (1Jn.2:3;5:3)

Stephen (Ac.6:10-15)

Peter (1Pe.1:16 citing Lev. 11)

Psalms (Ps.1;19;119)...and Paul applies the Psalms to you (Eph.5:19;Col.3:16)....Jesus upholds the Psalms too (Jn.10)

Proverbs (Peter and Paul both uphold the Proverbs....and they require TORAH.....e.g., Pr.28:9)

The Prophets (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, etc.)

Moses (who says Jesus is like Moses....Dt. 18:15....thus Jesus and Moses BOTH uphold and require TORAH!)

 

"but then tell us we are unable to obey the law "

MOSES said that we are unable to fully obey the law while in diaspora...I'm just telling you what Moses said!

We can't obey 100% of all Torah again until Dt. 30:1-8 happens....

Shall we thus ignore Jesus, God, the Spirit, Paul, John, Stephen, Peter, the Psalms, Proverbs, the Prophets, and Moses while in diaspora?  Surely not!

Paul requires the CORINTHIANS to obey Torah (1Cor.7:19), even though they surely can not all obey 100% of Torah while in Corinth.

 

CONCLUSION:  GROW in faithful obedience to presently observable Torah portions....looking forward to our 100% future obedience again when Dt. 30:1-8 happens.

"so you are condemning us by the law.  "

Of course not.  We are not condemned (Rom.8:1) in Christ....

And Christ requires Torah (Mt.5:19) for all disciples of all nations (Mt.28:19-20).

CONCLUSION:  We are NOT condemned....AND....we disciple all nations in obedience to presently observable Torah portions, as required by Biblical Scripture.

 

" Either you live by the law or by grace, there is no dual commitment here."

FALSE DICHOTOMY!

Moses receives grace (Ex.33:13) AND Moses pursued God's ways (Ex.33:13) which, of course, are contained in the written Torah of Moses (1Ki.2:3).  That's GRACE AND LAW TOGETHER!

Jesus is like Moses (Dt. 18:15) thus requiring the SAME THING....GRACE AND LAW TOGETHER.

Again, God gives grace to the humble (Jas.4:6;Pr.3:34); and humble people obey TORAH (Ex.33:13;Nu.12:3;Ps.25:9;Zep.2:3).  That's GRACE AND TORAH TOGETHER!

 

And surprise surprise!

Paul requires justification by LAW (Rom.2:13) and GRACE (Rom.3:24) TOGETHER.

BOTH.

TOGETHER.

 

blessings...

 

[BibleGuy]

1 hour ago, maryjayne said:

Are you having difficulty differentiating between a posters words and Bible quotes?

Usually the poster uses a different font or bolding or quotation marks around Bible quotes, or a combination of those options.

I hope that helps you.

Blessings to you.

Hi there!

Thanks for asking....

Actually, I was simply trying to show that Rom. 12 does NOT say that the ONLY sacrifices required are as described in Rom. 12.

You see, the person was evidently using Rom. 12 to say that the ONLY sacrifices required are those described in Rom. 12....

But in fact, Rom. 12 does NOT say such a thing.

Rather, Rom. 12 is obviously a metaphor....we do not all literally physically SACRIFICE OUR BODIES as in an animal sacrifice...

Rather, it's a metaphor...and the metaphor does NOT in any way state that literal physical animal sacrifices (as required in Torah) should not be performed.

So, that was the point I was seeking to emphasize....

After all, Paul (who wrote Rom. 12) also condoned a sacrifice-laden-vow to prove that Paul "walked orderly according to the law" (thus, Paul affirmed the legitimacy of animal sacrifices, Ac. 21)...and we should imitate Paul's model (1Cor.11:1;Php.4:9), not contradict it.

blessings....

 

[Justin Adams]

46 minutes ago, BibleGuy said:

That's interesting....but where did Paul cite Enoch?  Maybe I forgot about that one....

Maybe watch Dr. Heiser. He is a renoun scholar and puts it far better than I could.

When they refer to 'your law' or 'the book of the law' is is a colloquial reference to the first five books and in some cases all of the law and the prophets.. just like Yeshua did.

[BibleGuy]

1 hour ago, Coliseum said:

"I actually choose to do something CRAZY!  I choose to BELIEVE JESUS' WORDS!" "Oh how wonderful am I"? Your lack of humility is stunning. 

You know passion alone, knowledge alone, being right alone, and doing them all diligently and even perfectly, having a mastery over the Scriptures---none of those things will bring you or those you believe you want to convince any closer to the kingdom of God. Your grandiose approaches---which they are---do nothing to draw a single person to Christ. You are unrelatable. You will fight and argue and demand your point is right. To what avail? It is empty without genuine love for those you speak to. You craft your words without affection or concern---only to declare another piece of Scripture and how correct you are! I will leave you with this one verse, and after this, I will leave you and your responses to others to fight with. This is a never-ending butchery and division of Christian love. Like little birds picking and pecking at one another, you continue to fuel the fire. Instead of drawing people to Christ, you are pushing people away. Your kind words hide behind friendliness---without friendship. 

1 Corinthians 13:2 (NIV)
²  If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
 

Hi there!  Thanks for your comment....

 

""Oh how wonderful am I"? Your lack of humility is stunning. "

What's wrong with boasting in the LORD?!  (Jer. 9:24;2Cor.10:17)

"but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD who exercises lovingkindness, justice and righteousness on earth; for I delight in these things,” declares the LORD." (Jer. 9:24)

So I vigorously BOAST in יְהֹוָה!  I KNOW יְהֹוָה upholds LOVINGKINDNESS (Jer.9:24).....and His lovingkindness extends to those who OBEY Torah (Ex.20:6)

יְהֹוָה upholds JUSTICE (Jer.9:24)....and JUSTICE is of TORAH (1Ki.2:3;Mt.23:23).....

יְהֹוָה upholds RIGHTEOUSNESS (Jer.9:24)....and RIGHTEOUSNESS is something we DO (1Jn.2:29;3:7) in obedience to Torah (Dt. 6:25;Mt.5:20).

יְהֹוָה delights in these things....AND SO DO I!  

His Torah is in my heart (Heb.10:16) so that I may OBEY it (Dt. 30:14.....cited at Rom.10:8).

NO APOLOGIES FOR THE BOASTING IN יְהֹוָה !!!

After all, HUMILITY is linked to TORAH-OBEDIENCE (Nu.12:3;Ps.25:9;Zep.2:3).....

So, TORAH and HUMILITY go together.....

 

"having a mastery over the Scriptures---none of those things will bring you or those you believe you want to convince any closer to the kingdom of God."

Uhhh.....No.   The Scriptures are LIFE (Mt.4:4).....and are our sword (Eph. 6:17)....and you are BLESSED if you hear AND OBSERVE IT (Lk.11:28).

And you do NOT enter the kingdom of God unless you obey Torah BETTER than the corrupted Pharisees (Mt.5:20).....those are JESUS' words....not mine.

 

"do nothing to draw a single person to Christ. "

Some hear and observe....others don't (Lk.11:28).  YOU CHOOSE.

 

"You are unrelatable. "

If you don't like my style, then try Bill Cloud....his style is different than mine.  Try it!  You'll like it!  (gee that dates me....that was an OLD cereal commercial....remember?)

 

"You will fight and argue and demand your point is right. "

No....correct me and I'll thank you.

I'm interested in truth....not mere propaganda....

 

"To what avail? "

To be of avail for the Great Commission which requires that ALL JESUS' TEACHINGS apply to ALL DISCIPLES of ALL NATIONS (Mt.28:19-20)....thus, Mt. 5:19 actually applies to you, my friend. Jesus wasn't joking.

 

"It is empty without genuine love for those you speak to. "

Thank you for affirming love....we must love one another, as Christ loved us.....

And Christ loved us so much, that he even told us to obey Torah (Mt.5:19)....thus I likewise tell you to do the same, just as the Torah-teaching apostles sent forth by Jesus Himself (Mt.23:34).

 

"You craft your words without affection or concern"

I have great concern for my beloved brothers and sisters in Christ...that they grow up into the fullness of the measure of Godly righteousness to which they are called, rightly discerning their Israelite identity in Christ, and their Torah-obedient obligations as fellow heirs of the great promises which are all YES in Christ!

 

"only to declare another piece of Scripture and how correct you are! "

I appreciate your fear of pride....but trust me.....humility is what brought me here....not pride.

If had pride....why would I abandon the incorrect theology in which I was raised?

I was forced to swallow my pride....and admit the (unintentional) errors of my forefathers...and return to my Biblical roots in Christ.

 

"I will leave you with this one verse, and after this, I will leave you and your responses to others to fight with. "

The goal is not to "fight"....but if Jesus can vigorously dispute religious leaders who oppose Torah (Mt.23:23)....then we should too (Lk.6:40;1Jn.2:6).

 

"This is a never-ending butchery and division of Christian love. "

To the contrary, love upholds TRUTH (1Cor.13:6)...and Torah is truth (Ps.119:142)....so love UPHOLDS Torah....

There is no butchery or division needed in Christian love, my friend.

 

"Like little birds picking and pecking at one another, you continue to fuel the fire."

If Jesus disputes anti-Torah religion (Mt.23), then we should too (Lk.6:40;1Jn.2:6).

 

"Instead of drawing people to Christ, you are pushing people away."

Really?  I hope not!  Whom did I push away?

 

"Your kind words hide behind friendliness---without friendship. "

Hmmm.....if you just need a friend...then cool!  Let's be friends!

Not so sure how that works via the Internet, though.....

There's only so much a person can do via a posting here....

 

"If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing."

So true!  And keep reading!  LOVE rejoices in TRUTH (1Cor.13:6)...and TORAH is truth (Ps.119:142)....

So TRUE BIBLICAL LOVE rejoices in Torah.....

Thus, I really don't understand why your feathers appear to be so ruffled....

I'm just trying to love you the way you need to be loved (even though you evidently don't like it too much!)

 

hugs and blessings....

 

[BibleGuy]

28 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Maybe watch Dr. Heiser. He is a renoun scholar and puts it far better than I could.

When they refer to 'your law' or 'the book of the law' is is a colloquial reference to the first five books and in some cases all of the law and the prophets.. just like Yeshua did.

Yes, Yeshua used LAW to refer to Ps. 82:6 (Jn.10:34).

And in some sense, the Psalms ARE an extension of Torah, in a way.

After all, the Psalms are PROPHETIC.

And Torah sanctions true Prophets (Nu.12:6), provided they are not FALSE prophets, of course (Dt. 13:1-5).

So, the Torah authorizes the Psalms.....and thus the Psalms could be viewed as an extension, of sorts, of the Torah.

Anyway, if you get a chance to track down Paul's citation of Enoch, let me know!

blessings...

 

 

[Justin Adams]

1 minute ago, BibleGuy said:

if you get a chance to track down Paul's citation of Enoch, let me know!

blessings...

See Dr Heiser's lecture on Galations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9TPvTkDZw0

Enoch in the early church. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMh1xQZ7b_c