An Interesting Challenge

[missmuffet]

8 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Agreed, but sometimes the Lord requires it of us.

My wife and I very recently had ocassion to discuss the knowledge she had just received that an older friend of hers who is in the ladies group which meets at our house, had Asperger Syndrome. As I am studied up, trained and experienced in "negotiating" as I call it, with some who present aspects of this autistic spectrum disorder, (so-called), my wife wanted my opinion. I said it would explain why a number of people who have fellowshipped with her have not been happy with her behaviour and have warned me that she is difficult to deal with. I took the opportunity to remind my wife of a graduation event about 30 years ago when members of the national leadership were ministering to us after I had completed the required theoretical and practical units of a 2 year Pastoral Diploma course. Whilst they were praying and laying hands on us as a couple the word came forth from one of these elder shepherds, that God had called us in a particular way to serve the unloved and unlovely as faithful and diligent ministers of His love...and this we have been doing to the best of our ability and according to the measure of faith He has given us.

The Holy Spirit brings some difficult cases our way but yes, due to the world, the flesh, and the devil at work, some people are toxic. We have definitely learned that there are those who will use and abuse their benefactors and bite the hand that feeds them due to their unrestrained carnal nature and in some instances, demonic oppression. 

Praise God for grace in time of need.

That is your choice if you want to be a door mat for toxic people. I have not made that choice. There are people who have special needs and are mentally ill that are a challenge to work with. I leave them to the professionals. 

[jmax]

3 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

There is a saying: 'when you know one autistic person - YOU KNOW ONE..'

I have not heard that before, but that definitely hits the nail on the head.  Kudos to you @Justin Adams!

[Justin Adams]

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

That is your choice if you want to be a door mat for toxic people. I have not made that choice. There are people who have special needs and are mentally ill that are a challenge to work with. I leave them to the professionals. 

Yet it is so sad that the 'professionals' are often the ones they need shielding from with their pills and potions and dark sciences and labels...

Edited December 3, 2019 by Justin Adams

[Coliseum]

On 12/2/2019 at 12:27 AM, Michael37 said:

I was about to title this thread "Dynamic Relationship Interaction", but I was prompted in the Spirit to symplify it to "An Interesting Challenge", which is what dynamic relationship interactions are to me.

Basically the word "dynamic", from the Greek dunamis,  is synonymous with "power", so it is the power of relationships at work that I am referring to as an interesting challenge. 

Key Verse: Romans 12:18

Forgiveness
…17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Carefully consider what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible on your part, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but leave room for God’s wrath. For it is written: “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says the Lord.”…

Berean Study Bible

Where it says "If it is possible" the phrase is translated from the Greek word dunatos,  which signifies having power or ability.

Recently I have found the cummulative lack of empathy one of my friends manifests when we meet up and fellowship as brothers in Christ, an irritating problem.

Firstly, please empathise with me before coaching me on how to handle this situation. Secondly, please be aware that I do pray and intercede for those I fellowship with, and as much as I have the dunamis to live at peace with them and keep on forgiving I do just that.

  What I am hoping is that, for our mutual edification, others will respectfully share thoughts and stories about the challenges of relating to irritating brothers and sisters in Christ.

Thx Brother for your comments. I think we all, in degree, initially become offended when another says, "Do it this way," when we already believe we are doing what is right. It tends to sound belittling. But I know that in my heart I do not get my identity in the way I feel, but in the Truth. In Israel, where many students of the Bible gather around their Rabbi, great debates and heartfelt discussions take place. They are passionate about what they believe---as we all should be---and they raise their voices and argue their points. But in the end, they will protect one another to the death. We too are in a beautiful family. We get hurt, we argue, we think we are right, we fight for what we believe.  But we want to protect those we love. What did Christ do. He became a servant. All of those emotions he felt too, but he only wanted to do what his Father desired of him. And when we hung him on the cross, he still loved us. Another way to draw a brother or sister to oneself is to ask him for help. That is really humbling---but you know what? Who will refuse?

Yes, I have brothers and sisters that I push to the side, but if my conscience is working right, I don't do it for long. And if it isn't, I go to my Father and ask Him what to do. He does not tie our hands up and force us. He says, "Remember me." And when we do, we melt. It is why when we ask for forgiveness, we do not simply say, "I apologize." If we only said that, there is no participation with the one we are apologizing to. No. We ask, "Will you forgive me"? Now, both are included: one asks, the other answers. Together the problem is resolved. 

[Michael37]

9 hours ago, DustyRoad said:

Is that what Autism is to you, Michael? Carnal flesh... the devil at work... oppression? Is that what you think? I'm glad that's come out... thank you for being honest. Ah, I see you're another one of those members who can't be ignored. Nice.

Hi Dusty, There is a specific sense in which the word "toxic" is used with reference to people, and it is this sense that Miss Muffet and I have in mind.

 I generally don't apply the word "toxic" to anyone, but since Miss Muffet expressed herself using it I responded in kind. I wasn't referring specifically to Autism when I agreed with her statement below, but rather affirming that such people exist, and fit the definition at 3b below. Please forgive me if I have upset you in this discussion, but I have been involved with Autism long enough to know that while sufferers should receive sympathy, empathy and support they also need a firm hand of authority and discipline at times.   

tox·ic

 (tŏk′sĭk)

adj.

1. Of, relating to, or caused by a toxin or other poison: a toxic condition; toxic hepatitis.

2. Capable of causing injury or death, especially by chemical means; poisonous: toxic industrial waste.

3.

a. Extremely risky or harmful, as a debt for which the borrower is in default and the collateral has lost so much value that its sale cannot cover the amount of the loan.

b. Causing social tension or unpleasantness: a toxic personality.

n.

A toxic chemical or other substance.

---

[Late Latin toxicus, from Latin toxicum, poison, from Greek toxikon, poison for arrows, poison, from neuter of toxikos, of a bow, from toxon, bow, from Old Persian *taxša-, an arrow.]

[missmuffet]

6 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Yet it is so sad that the 'professionals' are often the ones they need shielding from with their pills and potions and dark sciences and labels...

I agree about the medications they should not be on. But sometimes a medication can be beneficial. It all depends on the person who is caring for them. 

[missmuffet]

7 hours ago, maryjayne said:

There is a huge difference between toxic people, and those who have special needs or are mentally ill.

And people who have autism are not mentally ill, any more than those with downs syndrome are. It's a genetic developmental disorder.

People do not need a professional degree to be kind and treat such ones with love.

That is true. There is a difference. Sometimes they have no control over their behavior. God knows that. Those who are not mentally ill do have control over their behavior. God knows that as well. 

[Sower]

On 12/1/2019 at 11:27 PM, Michael37 said:

What I am hoping is that, for our mutual edification, others will respectfully share thoughts and stories about the challenges of relating to irritating brothers and sisters in Christ.

I have found my attitude do a big change when I learned to pray for those types you describe, Michael.
The worse the relationship, the more the prayers. I ask/intercede God for His best blessings for them.
(*** my best blessings were during my meanest and leanest years, when I 'spiritually' grew up***)
I can honestly say I really do not "want" to always do this,
but can say it always makes me feel better when I do.
            
I also try to remember
1st.   There but God's grace/mercy go I..
2nd  Everybody is fighting some battle, struggle,
            I know nothing about.
Yes. Ain't always easy. But, God's ways are not man's ways.
Pray for your friends? Enemies

“But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven” (Matthew 5:43).

[Sower]

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

That is true. There is a difference. Sometimes they have no control over their behavior. God knows that. Those who are not mentally ill do have control over their behavior. God knows that as well. 

I have limited medical knowledge of autism.
I do interact with some over the years, with adult children of friends.
In my younger years, I would frequently be ask to drive a bus to pick up handicap
people for the MHMR, mental health mental retardation. Extra part time job.
Was somewhat intimidated/nervous when I first started. Some needing wheel chair, crutches, or able to walk/talk.
Facial expressions were deceiving. A smile wasn't always friendly, and a frown may be permanent.
Most were amiable as any one else might be. Some were trouble makers. Some were mean, starting fights.
Just like everybody else does in the world. I always thought most knew what they were doing.
I realized they were just people after awhile.
But fighting a battle to try to be the same as us, with their limited/broken abilities.
Were probably some with autism, as it wasn't much identified back in the sixties.
 

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, Godismyloveforever said:

Things today are so much better than when I was in school.  I know now that I am extremely dyslexic.  But back then I was labeled stupid and lazy. 

I worked ten times harder than anyone else in my class but still didn't do well. 

Only choice to prove them wrong was to study 100 times harder and go as far as possible in education. 

Well if they want to continue to call me stupid, it's ok as long as they call me Dr. Stupid. 

Sincerely yours,

Chicken, PhD. 

                

 

The schools were clueless in regards to disabilities years ago.