What percentage of people do you believe get saved by Jesus?

[Neighbor]

20 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:

You say that not all repent, but how would you know?

How? By reading the Bible praying upon what has been  read, and studying  and praying about what was read yet again. From that process the account of Ananias and Sapphira is one of many examples that quickly come to mind. See Book of Acts, what is now called chapter five. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts 5:1-11&version=ESV  .  Episodes recorded like that are evidence enough for me.

Plus, even repentance does not always relieve temporal cost of disobedience to God's instruction and command. Failing to be precise in following the command of God,  instead straying off on one's own tangent can keep one's flesh from seeing the "Promise Land".

As a principle God seems to give no slack on obedience. There is consequence to all action, all thought. The idea that all is well in the end for all is one such error that manifests into  serious adverse consequence for those that think that error to be so. Why much of the presentation of the heroes of faith  end up with the hero not finishing well at all for their having puffed up in self then doing something their own way not God's.

[Neighbor]

Just a little something within the OT. ..."Then I saw the wicked buried. They used to go in and out of the holy place and were praised in the city where they had done such things. This also is vanity. Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed speedily, the heart of the children of man is fully set to do evil.  Though a sinner does evil a hundred times and prolongs his life, yet I know that it will be well with those who fear God, because they fear before him.  But it will not be well with the wicked, neither will he prolong his days like a shadow, because he does not fear before God."....

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes+8&version=ESV

[Neighbor]

On 1/19/2020 at 7:35 AM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

I believe that there will be many multitudes of people in Heaven.....too many to count......but PerCentage-Wise, I think the number will be small.....10% comes to mind and of course that is just a guess...

Well how about twenty three and one third percent? -An average three year rolling annual tithe total percentage. Numerology being what it is. 23 + percent will be an astronomical number I suppose, perhaps like the number of grains of sand or number of stars. Remember when we could all still  see the stars at night, the heavens full?

Course while most speculate the time of the signs we are in, is the end of the end times, I kinda think that the Jewish religious calendar does not end for some 19,765 years for a reason. We are in what,  year 5781 or so?  

It could be a huge number of saints beyond our capacity to count by the end of end times, though a percentage that is small, less than a third of the  total number of humans ever.

[Blood Bought 1953]

1 minute ago, Neighbor said:

Well how about twenty three and one third percent? -An average three year rolling tithe total percentage. Numerology being what it is. 23 + percent will be an astronomical number I suppose, perhaps like the number of grains of sand or number of stars. Remember when we could all still  see the stars at night, the heavens full?

Course while most specualte the time of th esigns we ar ein are the end of the end times. I kinda think that the Jewish religious calendar does not end itself for some 19,765 years for a reason. we are in what,  year 5781 or so?  

It could be a huge number of saints beyond our capacity to count by the end of end times. Though a percentage that is small less than a third ofthe  total number of humans ever.

 

Upon further reflection, I am now convinced that the total percentage will be 12.3 . No arguing about this. It’s 12.3 ......( + or -  .01% )

[johnthebaptist]

5 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Because it is throughout the Bible, and I see no reason to believe that those who die in their sins, get to repent later, or be saved without repentance and the grace of God during and prior to their lives, it just is not really there. Nice wishful thinking though! People do disagree though.

I think it takes a long time for some people to repent. Some wait till their deathbed. But we can't know what goes in between a person and the Lord.

[johnthebaptist]

3 hours ago, Neighbor said:

How? By reading the Bible praying upon what has been  read, and studying  and praying about what was read yet again. From that process the account of Ananias and Sapphira is one of many examples that quickly come to mind. See Book of Acts, what is now called chapter five. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts 5:1-11&version=ESV  .  Episodes recorded like that are evidence enough for me.

Plus, even repentance does not always relieve temporal cost of disobedience to God's instruction and command. Failing to be precise in following the command of God,  instead straying off on one's own tangent can keep one's flesh from seeing the "Promise Land".

As a principle God seems to give no slack on obedience. There is consequence to all action, all thought. The idea that all is well in the end for all is one such error that manifests into  serious adverse consequence for those that think that error to be so. Why much of the presentation of the heroes of faith  end up with the hero not finishing well at all for their having puffed up in self then doing something their own way not God's.

We don't know what goes on between a person and the Lord. Some people wait a long time to repent. That doesn't meant they don't repent in the end.

[Neighbor]

31 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

We don't know what goes on between a person and the Lord. Some people wait a long time to repent. That doesn't meant they don't repent in the end.

Hi,

Actually  I can and so can you,  often by the testimony of their finishing the race well.  

I think one must strain a gnat to try to think Ananias and Sapphira had something that would be saving of them going between themselves and God just before they died.They died shamed and on the wrong side of unmerited grace.

Plus there is the testimony of Ecclesiastes 8. If one choses to skip past consideration  those example or reason  why those examples  do not pertain then that person is welcome to their own conclusion , whether it be by strong self delusion or reasoned by the Holy Spirit, far as I am concerned.

I see no forward progress occurring in our discussion from here, so unless you want to offer something new, something more than "we" don't know. I am done here before  entering into the realm of vain debate, as well as  violation of chess principles by making three moves of no progress.

[Omegaman 3.0]

For all the guessing and supposing, and wishing, I think it is hard to assume universal salvation when reading Revelation.

In chapter 20, it describes two ressurections, one is called the first resurrection, and it says those in the are blessed. Pretty sure that means they are not Hellbound.

It also says that the rest of the dead do not come to life again until the thousand years are finished. 

Later in the chapter, is speaks of a war after the thousand years, and notes "And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Now, that sounds to me like where the devil and the false prophet and the beast are, is a place of torment forever, "24/7". Later still is says " And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

That sure sounds like there are at least some, who are not in the book of life. If that is the case, then they are not in heaven, but in the lake of fire.

Now perhaps one can make the case that God in His mercy, destroys them there in the lake of fire, and does not subject them to eternal conscious torment, but that is not the implication of a plain reading, normal use of language. If we assume that these people who are not in the book of live, are not in eternal suffering, it seems at least plain that they are not enjoying the blessings of heaven and the presence of God either. If that is the case, then there is not universal salvation, and besides, if there is universal salvation, why would there even be verses about being lost or gaining salvation, it it is going to happen to all?

[Guest K9Buck]

13 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

For all the guessing and supposing, and wishing, I think it is hard to assume universal salvation when reading Revelation.

In chapter 20, it describes two ressurections, one is called the first resurrection, and it says those in the are blessed. Pretty sure that means they are not Hellbound.

It also says that the rest of the dead do not come to life again until the thousand years are finished. 

Later in the chapter, is speaks of a war after the thousand years, and notes "And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Now, that sounds to me like where the devil and the false prophet and the beast are, is a place of torment forever, "24/7". Later still is says " And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

That sure sounds like there are at least some, who are not in the book of life. If that is the case, then they are not in heaven, but in the lake of fire.

Now perhaps one can make the case that God in His mercy, destroys them there in the lake of fire, and does not subject them to eternal conscious torment, but that is not the implication of a plain reading, normal use of language. If we assume that these people who are not in the book of live, are not in eternal suffering, it seems at least plain that they are not enjoying the blessings of heaven and the presence of God either. If that is the case, then there is not universal salvation, and besides, if there is universal salvation, why would there even be verses about being lost or gaining salvation, it it is going to happen to all?

 

That all sounds pretty reasonable to me.  My guess is that most make it to Heaven, but that's just my gut feeling.  

[other one]

don't know the percentage, but there are apparently a bunch.

 

Rev 7:9-10

9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude, which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; 1
NASB
 

…..

Rev 7:13-14
13 And one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and from where have they come?" 14 And I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
NASB