The present church age not revealed to Daniel, the 69th week stops at the Crucifixion.

[R. Hartono]

Paul wrote that the present church age was not revealed to OT prophets (including Daniel) :

Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ

5 WHICH IN OTHER AGES WAS NOT MADE KNOWN UNTO THE SONS OF MEN, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

WE ALL KNOW GOD GAVE 70 WEEKS TO FINISH THE TRANSGRESSION (WHICH IS NOT YET FINISHED NOW)

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression,

BUT DANIEL DID NOT UNDERSTAND THAT AFTER MESSIAH BE CUT OFF THERE WILL COME THE PRESENT CHURCH AGE WHICH SUSPEND THE FINAL ONE WEEK.

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself....

After Messiah be cut off at the 69th Week, time for the present church age started, leaving the final ONE WEEK of the 70 WEEK of Daniel.

THIS COVENANT WITH MANY WILL THEREFORE HAPPEN IN ONE FINAL WEEK AFTER THE PRESENT CHURCH AGE IS OVER WITH THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH :

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for ONE WEEK...

THE COVENANT WITH MANY IS NOT ABOUT THE ROMAN ALLOWING PEACE TO JEWS WHO OBEY THEM AT 70 AD, BECAUSE THE 69 WEEK HAS BEEN STOPPED BY THE PRESENT CHURCH AGE, ITS BETWEEN PRESENT DAY ISRAEL WITH MANY ARAB ENEMIES SINCE ITS REESTABLISHMENT IN 1948 WHICH RCVD STRONG ARAB RESISTANCE.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by R. Hartono

[Marilyn C]

Hi R. Hartono,

I agree with most of that and you have presented it very well. Good work.

One point though, I don`t see how you can have the `Prophetic Gap` arrow go right to half way through the `one week.` Care to enlarge on that? 

regards, Marilyn.

[R. Hartono]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

One point though, I don`t see how you can have the `Prophetic Gap` arrow go right to half way through the `one week.` Care to enlarge on that? 

regards, Marilyn.

You are correct Marilyn, thanks !

[dhchristian]

10 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Paul wrote that the present church age was not revealed to OT prophets (including Daniel) :

Though it was not discussed specifically in the OT, It was alluded to By Isaiah, and Daniel among others, as a time that the Gentiles will hear. 

For example, Isa. 11:10, which is spoken of by Paul In Romans 15:12. Micah 5:1-5 also alludes to this church age Mystery.

[Revelation Man]

On 2/4/2020 at 10:53 PM, R. Hartono said:

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for ONE WEEK...

THE COVENANT WITH MANY IS NOT ABOUT THE ROMAN ALLOWING PEACE TO JEWS WHO OBEY THEM AT 70 AD, BECAUSE THE 69 WEEK HAS BEEN STOPPED BY THE PRESENT CHURCH AGE, ITS BETWEEN PRESENT DAY ISRAEL WITH MANY ARAB ENEMIES SINCE ITS REESTABLISHMENT IN 1948 WHICH RCVD STRONG ARAB RESISTANCE.

Its about the E.U. and their Agreements with Israel AND MANY OTHER Nations in the Mediterranean Sea Region.  The 7 year agreements are already in place. The Anti-Christ will just reup them after the Rapture via his own twist.

[WilliamL]

On 2/4/2020 at 9:53 PM, R. Hartono said:

....WE ALL KNOW GOD GAVE 70 WEEKS TO FINISH THE TRANSGRESSION (WHICH IS NOT YET FINISHED NOW)

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression,

BUT DANIEL DID NOT UNDERSTAND THAT AFTER MESSIAH BE CUT OFF THERE WILL COME THE PRESENT CHURCH AGE WHICH SUSPEND THE FINAL ONE WEEK.

...

THE COVENANT WITH MANY IS NOT ABOUT THE ROMAN ALLOWING PEACE TO JEWS WHO OBEY THEM AT 70 AD, BECAUSE THE 69 WEEK HAS BEEN STOPPED BY THE PRESENT CHURCH AGE, ITS BETWEEN PRESENT DAY ISRAEL WITH MANY ARAB ENEMIES SINCE ITS REESTABLISHMENT IN 1948 WHICH RCVD STRONG ARAB RESISTANCE.

The problem with this oft-parroted theory is the term "the transgression/pesha." The Hebrew word pesha is better translated rebellion or apostasy, and refers to the rebellion/apostasy of the Jewish priesthood prophesied back in Daniel 8. Nothing else. If the the of "the rebellion" was not there, you might have a case; but it is there, for a purpose.

Luke 21:22 “For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." Those things being "the days ... in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down.” Luke 21:6

Why were they to be thrown down? Because

Matthew 23:29 “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! … 31 …you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. … 35 …upon you shall come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth… 36 Truly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation. 37 O Jerusalem… 38 Behold, your house [that is, the Temple] is left to you desolate.”

Daniel 9:26 And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

This was the fulfillment of the pesha, that is, the destruction and desolation of the Temple, and with it the authority of the apostatizing Aaronic priesthood. That pesha/apostasy.

2 Thes 2 tells of the apostasy of the Church, which is a type of the former apostasy of Israel. But this latter day apostasy has nothing to do with Daniel 9, which Jesus clearly showed would be fullfilled in the days of the 1st-century Jewish Pharisees.
 

[Revelation Man]

On 2/12/2020 at 3:43 PM, WilliamL said:

2 Thes 2 tells of the apostasy of the Church, which is a type of the former apostasy of Israel. But this latter day apostasy has nothing to do with Daniel 9, which Jesus clearly showed would be fullfilled in the days of the 1st-century Jewish Pharisees.

Its actually the DEPARTURE of the Church not the faith.

[Uriah]

In Daniel 9 it says the Messiah is cut off AFTER the 69th week,....And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off...

So are you saying it started 7 yrs. earlier for example?

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by Uriah

[WilliamL]

On 2/14/2020 at 8:45 AM, Revelation Man said:

On 2/12/2020 at 2:43 PM, WilliamL said:

2 Thes 2 tells of the apostasy of the Church, which is a type of the former apostasy of Israel. But this latter day apostasy has nothing to do with Daniel 9, which Jesus clearly showed would be fullfilled in the days of the 1st-century Jewish Pharisees.

Its actually the DEPARTURE of the Church not the faith.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, concerning the Parousia of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together unto him, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit nor by word, nor by letter as if from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except the apostasía/departure/apostasy comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the Son of Perdition…

The above says that the apostasía/departure/apostasy comes before the Parousia.

 

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we the living, the ones remaining unto the Parousia of the Lord, shall by no means precede them who are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of an archangel, and with a trumpet of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Thereafter we the living, the ones remaining shall be caught up/raptured together with them in clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The above says says that the Parousia comes before the Rapture.

 

Therefore, if the departure = the Rapture, then Paul contradicts Paul. If the departure = the latter-day apostasy prophesied by Paul –

1Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in the latter times some shall apostēsontai/depart/apostatize from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits, and doctrines of demons…

– then 2 Thes. 2 does not contradict 1 Thes. 4. Rather, 2 Thes. 2 is speaking of things that will precede the Parousia, and 1 Thes. 4 is speaking of things that will follow the Parousia.

Edited February 20, 2020 by WilliamL

[Revelation Man]

12 hours ago, WilliamL said:

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, concerning the Parousia of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together unto him, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit nor by word, nor by letter as if from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except the apostasía/departure/apostasy comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the Son of Perdition…

The above says that the apostasía/departure/apostasy comes before the Parousia.

You call it Apostasy from the faith, which only means departure from the faith, I call it the departure from the earth by the Church. Now show me where THE FAITH is being spoken of anywhere in that passage brother. Now verse one speaks clearly about THE GATHERING unto Christ. By weaving in the word Apostasy, when it is really Departure, the Latin word used also meant Departure, Disscessio {something like that}. Its very clear, Paul is telling them not to fret, the Church is going to Depart AND the Anti-Christ has to show up BEFORE the DOTL can come, so STOP WORRYING guys !! 

Just because Humans changed it to say falling away and to mean Apostasy, or Departure from the Faith doesn't mean I have to fall into that same dark void. 

 

12 hours ago, WilliamL said:

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we the living, the ones remaining unto the Parousia of the Lord, shall by no means precede them who are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of an archangel, and with a trumpet of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Thereafter we the living, the ones remaining shall be caught up/raptured together with them in clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The above says says that the Parousia comes before the Rapture.

No it does't. The Rapture happens at that time, 1 Thess. 4:14, the coming for the Church. Parousia can mean near also. In Rev. 14:14 we see that Jesus FROM A CLOUD thrusts in the sickle to Harvest the Church. So the Dead are raised FIRST, then we who are alive will be changed to Spirit men {we die}, and go to marry the Lamb in Heaven just like Rev. 19 says, we are seen in Heaven BEFORE the Seals are opened in Rev. 4 and 5 and AFTER the Seals are opened in Rev. 7:9-16. The Evidence says Jesus comes for the Church THEN we come back with him, just like Rev. 19 says. Don't get hung up on words, Jesus came back in John 20 after going to offer the Sacrifice to the Father. Its there, it just takes a little studying to see it. CLUE....If Jesus told Mary TOUCH ME NOT because he had not yet went to offer the Sacrifice to the Father, but then 8 days later told Thomas to TOUCH his wounds, that means Jesus had yo have went to the Father, offered the Sacrifice, then brought the Gift of the Holy Spirit back with him for the Pentecost or Harvest of the Church Age. All these Second Comings is just a name, Parousia being used doesn't mean Jesus has to start his Second Advent at that exact moment in time, its just mankind limiting God's vocabulary. 

We do the same thing in Rev. 7:9-16, we DEMAND that be the Tribulation Saints in Heaven, but instead its really the Church Age Saints who went through 2000 some odd years of tribulation, Jesus told us we would ALWAYS have tribulation, millions have died for Christs name. As John said, THESE came out of the great as in 2000 years is GREATER that 7..............2000>7. We cab't limit Gods speech via words. He can parousia for the Church and then parousia when he returns to defeat the Beast. Limiting what words can mean is kinda odd to me. I used to do it also however tbh.

13 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Therefore, if the departure = the Rapture, then Paul contradicts Paul. If the departure = the latter-day apostasy prophesied by Paul –

1Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in the latter times some shall apostēsontai/depart/apostatize from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits, and doctrines of demons…

– then 2 Thes. 2 does not contradict 1 Thes. 4. Rather, 2 Thes. 2 is speaking of things that will precede the Parousia, and 1 Thes. 4 is speaking of things that will follow the Parousia.

Paul spoke clearly to the Thessalonians, its hard for some people today to understand one sided letters. I understand them, but some people can't put the full puzzle together. THE KEY is here a little, there a little.................we have too use the WHOLE BIBLE in order to get the BIG PICTURE. Its obvious there is a pre trib Rapture. I mean I see it as clear as day, via the threads that run through the bible.