Rapture before the antichrist in Matthew 24

[kenny2212]

5 hours ago, missmuffet said:

No, it would not resolve all the disagreements. People are going to believe what they want to believe even though the Bible tells us differently. That is the way of the human being. 

Ok missmuffet

[Revelation Man]

19 hours ago, Cletus said:

1Co 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

now go read in the book of revelation where it speaks of the seals and trumpets.  Pay close attention to tribulous activity happening on the earth during the opening of the seven seals in chapter 6.  Now read rev 8:2:

Rev 8:2  And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

you see during the seals being opened and tribulation upon the earth the angels did not even have the trumpets to sound yet.  not until the seventh seal was opened.  then they begin blowing the trumpets one by one... until the last trump...  see 1 cor 15:52 again... the last trump. 

you see, its not just what Jesus says in Matthew 24... but the whole bible points to one thing:

How do you guys come up with stuff like this ? The Seven Judgment Trumpets have nothing to do with the Trumpet of Jesus' voice, which Rev. 4:1 identifies as such. We also see it in 1 Thess. 4.

Rev. 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

1 Thess. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

I can teach this till I am blue in the face, people already know better, but as God us my witness, they will have been told the truth on the subject, so lets delve into what the Last Trump really means, are you up for it ? Its called The Wedding Pattern, God gave us the history of man in the Seven Feasts.

==========================================================================================

The Wedding Pattern

The Lord gave Israel seven feasts in Leviticus 23. The Lord refers to the feasts as appointed times (mowed – Strong’s H4150). Mowed means an appointed time, a specific time. Our Heavenly Father knows the End from the Beginning, and the seven specific appointed times of the seven feasts give us an outline of His overall plan and I believe that some appointed times have been, and all will be prophetically fulfilled.

Within the Word of God is the pattern of the Church as the Bride of Christ (hereafter noted as Church) being wed to Jesus, and it is preserved to this day in the practice of the traditional Jewish wedding (hereafter noted as Jewish Wedding). This is not to say that the Church has replaced Israel in the Lord’s plan; quite the opposite. Please see Romans 11:11-18, and 11:25-26.

There are two brides found in Scripture, and Rachel and Leah show us this. 

When I first realized the connection between the feasts and the steps of the wedding, I was troubled by the Fall Feasts. Although "Trumpets" is a favorite feast for those of us listening for the trumpet of the Lord, I could not clearly in my mind make these feasts fit the Church. The Fall Feasts seem to point to the people Israel. Therefore, when I realized there were two different brides which would be dealt with in separate manners, the pieces seemed to fit together.

First, the Lord chose a people (Israel) that would be His bride, His wife. Several times in the Old Testament the Lord describes Israel as His wife. It all began when the Lord chose Abraham and promised him that his descendants would be a great and numerous people. But at Mount Sinai the chosen wife became adulterous and worshipped the Golden Calf. Time and again, through the prophets, the Lord called for Israel to return to Him.

Finally, the Lord told Israel,

"I am sought of [them that] asked not [for me]; I am found of [them that] sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation [that] was not called by my name.” - Isaiah 65:1

 The Bible shows us these two brides in the same manner and pattern as the Jewish wedding, and the Jewish wedding fits the themes of the seven appointed times given by the Lord.

The Lord gave the Children of Israel three Spring Feasts in Leviticus 23:4-14, Passover, Unleavened Bread and Firstfruits. Here is how they were fulfilled:

Passover - Jesus paid the price for our sins when He died on the Cross. Jesus was the Lamb of God. (John 1:29) Jesus was the Passover Lamb.

Firstfruits - The day we recognize as Resurrection Sunday is the Jewish Feast of Firstfruits. Jesus was the Firstfruits of the grave. (First Corinthians 15:20)

Unleavened Bread - According to Scripture, “Passover Week” is the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Leavening is figurative of sin; Jesus was “unleavened,” without sin. Jesus paid the price at the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

There is a thread of continuity that flows through the seven feasts, or appointed times, first given by the Lord. Here are the steps taken in completing the Jewish wedding and its application to the wedding of the Church to the Lord Jesus, followed by how this ties to the seven appointed feasts of Israel:

The steps of the traditional Jewish wedding:

1 – Selection of the Bride
Jewish Wedding - The Son chooses the Bride – the Father makes the arrangements
Church - John 15:16 – “You did not choose Me, but I chose you . . .”

2 – The Bride Price established
Jewish Wedding - The father of the bride must be reimbursed for the loss of his daughter.
Church - I Corinthians 6:20 - “For you were bought with a price.” The Bride price was paid when Jesus died on the Cross.

We who are saved by Jesus were sought by the Lord. (Isaiah 65:1) Jesus paid the price on Passover. The appointed times of Firstfruits and Unleavened Bread complete the picture of Jesus being resurrected and being sinless, the spotless Lamb of God.

The Spring Feasts have all been fulfilled.

Pentecost, or the Feast of Weeks, was the fourth appointed time given by the Lord in Leviticus 23:15-22.

The steps of the traditional Jewish wedding:

3 – The Betrothal
Jewish Wedding - More than mere “engagement”, it was a permanent arrangement. Recall the story of Joseph and Mary.
Church – The attachment of the Church to the Lord is also permanent, and forever. “This is the bread which came down from heaven--not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.” (John 6:58) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand. (John 10:28)

4 – The Marriage Contract
Jewish Wedding – A written agreement committing each party to the marriage.
Church - The entire Holy Bible is our written agreement containing the promises of God. Jesus said, “If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed;” (John 8:31)

5 – The Bride must consent
Jewish Wedding – This is not entirely an arranged marriage; the bride must agree.
Church – “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;” (Mark 16:16) “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” (Romans 10:9)

6 – The Bridal Gift and the Cup of the Covenant
Jewish Wedding – A glass of wine is taken upon the signing of the contract.
Church – Each time we gather around the Lord’s Table, we remember the “contract.” “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave [it] to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament (covenant), which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:27-28)
Jewish Wedding – The Bride is given a gift by the groom.
Church - The Holy Spirit is given by Jesus –– “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” (Acts 2:38) This, of course, occurred on the Day of Pentecost.

7 – The Ceremonial Purification of the Bride
Jewish Wedding - The next step for the Bride after she is betrothed is a ceremonial cleansing. In Biblical times the Bride would use a Mikvah, which was pool of water, in which she would immerse herself.
Church - Acts 2:41 – “Then those who gladly received his word were baptized (immersed); and that day about three thousand souls were added [to them].”

The Church is an insertion in the Lord's Plan. Israel was the original bride. I believe that the Lord Jesus will come for His bride, the Church, in a separate event (the Rapture) from the Lord's return for His bride, Israel. From this point forward in the Jewish Wedding process, following the purification of the bride, in my opinion the Church will be dealt with separately in the time defined as the Church Age, or the Age of Grace. This period of time will extend from the first Day of Pentecost to the day when the Lord Jesus calls us Home.

8 – The Groom would prepare a room for the Bride in his father’s house
Church - John 14:3 – “I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself.”

The father of the groom determines when the room is ready. The groom does not determine the time of the wedding. “But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” (Matthew 24:36)

9 – The Bride is consecrated and set apart
Church - First Peter 2:9 – “But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people.”

10 – The Groom returns with a shout, “Behold, the bridegroom comes!”
Church - First Thessalonians 4:16 – “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.”

Let me insert an additional hope at this point. When the Lord Jesus comes for His Bride, the Church, we will not be totally surprised. Although the Jewish bride did not know the day or the hour, she was expectant. The Apostle Paul in speaking of “that Day” said, “But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day.” (First Thessalonians 5:4-5) Today, many in the Church are expectant and will not be totally surprised.

11 – The Bride and Groom go to the wedding chamber.
Church – This period when the Bride and Groom spend time together seems to show that the Bride of Jesus will be with Him in Heaven. This appears to indicate a pre-Tribulation gathering of the Church, and is described in Isaiah 26:20; “Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.” Praise the Lord!

12 – The Marriage Supper
Church – “‘Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.’ And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. Then he said to me, ‘Write: Blessed [are] those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’” (The Revelation 19:7-9)

In my opinion, the Feast of Pentecost is still being fulfilled and will be completed when the Lord Jesus comes for His bride.

I believe that in the remaining steps of the Jewish Wedding process, the steps will be fulfilled for Israel in a separate manner.

The next appointed time is the Feast of Trumpets. The Feast of Trumpets is a mysterious time. Of all the feasts, or appointed times, little is said of it and no scriptural reason for the feast is given. (see Leviticus 23:23-25) A trumpet (the Shofar) is blown. Trumpets make announcements. I suspect that the Feast of Trumpets will be when the Lord in some manner announces the time has come for the fulfillment of His plan for Israel.

==============================================================================================================

The Last Trump end the Pentecost/Harvest/Church Age and announces that the Fall Feasts have arrived. Jesus fulfilled the three Spring of Passover, Unleavened Bread and First-fruits. We are now in the Feast of Pentecost, the Harvest of souls so to speak. When the Last Trump sounds we will be called to the marriage chambers to marry the Lamb (Rev. 19). Then God will deal with Israel's 70th week prophecy. 

The Feast of Trumps sounds, announcing that the Pentecost/Harvest is over and that the Feasts of Atonement and Tabernacle are nigh at hand.

Feast of Atonement, Elijah is sent to turn Israel back unto God (Malachi 4:5-6), thus we know Israel repents before the Day of the Lord. So The Trump sounds, the Church is taken to Heaven when in a traditional Jewish Wedding the Bride stays in the fathers house 7 days (7 years) and then Israel atones just as the Daniel 9:24-27 prophecy says they must do before the 70th week can end. 

Feast of Tabernacle, the word tabernacle means to Dwell with God !! Where does Jesus (God) live for 1000 years ? In Jerusalem with the Jewish peoples, so in the Seven Feasts we get God's entire plan with mankind, if we listen carefully. Jesus fulfilled the Spring Feasts with his death. The Gentile Church then Harvests souls during the 2000 some odd year Church Age where Jews take part only IN PART because they are Blinded for the MOST PART as Rom. 11:25 says. Then when the Last Trump sounds, the Church goes to the Marriage Chambers in Heaven, and Israel's 70th week starts up, they must Atone before the 70th week can come to pass. Then Jesus will show up and save them in their hiding place of Petra, then Jesus will dwell with them for 1000 years which means to Tabernacle. 

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

13 hours ago, ENOCH2010 said:

Do you all see what happens when the truth is about to be reveled, the above happens, a post is bombed on every thread in this forum to hide the truth in a bunch of non sense. 

I don't see you making any points at all. Just short quips that have zero meaning.  

[Alive]

23 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

How do you guys come up with stuff like this ? The Seven Judgment Trumpets have nothing to do with the Trumpet of Jesus' voice, which Rev. 4:1 identifies as such. We also see it in 1 Thess. 4.

Rev. 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

1 Thess. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

I can teach this till I am blue in the face, people already know better, but as God us my witness, they will have been told the truth on the subject, so lets delve into what the Last Trump really means, are you up for it ? Its called The Wedding Pattern, God gave us the history of man in the Seven Feasts.

==========================================================================================

The Wedding Pattern

The Lord gave Israel seven feasts in Leviticus 23. The Lord refers to the feasts as appointed times (mowed – Strong’s H4150). Mowed means an appointed time, a specific time. Our Heavenly Father knows the End from the Beginning, and the seven specific appointed times of the seven feasts give us an outline of His overall plan and I believe that some appointed times have been, and all will be prophetically fulfilled.

Within the Word of God is the pattern of the Church as the Bride of Christ (hereafter noted as Church) being wed to Jesus, and it is preserved to this day in the practice of the traditional Jewish wedding (hereafter noted as Jewish Wedding). This is not to say that the Church has replaced Israel in the Lord’s plan; quite the opposite. Please see Romans 11:11-18, and 11:25-26.

There are two brides found in Scripture, and Rachel and Leah show us this. 

When I first realized the connection between the feasts and the steps of the wedding, I was troubled by the Fall Feasts. Although "Trumpets" is a favorite feast for those of us listening for the trumpet of the Lord, I could not clearly in my mind make these feasts fit the Church. The Fall Feasts seem to point to the people Israel. Therefore, when I realized there were two different brides which would be dealt with in separate manners, the pieces seemed to fit together.

First, the Lord chose a people (Israel) that would be His bride, His wife. Several times in the Old Testament the Lord describes Israel as His wife. It all began when the Lord chose Abraham and promised him that his descendants would be a great and numerous people. But at Mount Sinai the chosen wife became adulterous and worshipped the Golden Calf. Time and again, through the prophets, the Lord called for Israel to return to Him.

Finally, the Lord told Israel,

"I am sought of [them that] asked not [for me]; I am found of [them that] sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation [that] was not called by my name.” - Isaiah 65:1

 The Bible shows us these two brides in the same manner and pattern as the Jewish wedding, and the Jewish wedding fits the themes of the seven appointed times given by the Lord.

The Lord gave the Children of Israel three Spring Feasts in Leviticus 23:4-14, Passover, Unleavened Bread and Firstfruits. Here is how they were fulfilled:

Passover - Jesus paid the price for our sins when He died on the Cross. Jesus was the Lamb of God. (John 1:29) Jesus was the Passover Lamb.

Firstfruits - The day we recognize as Resurrection Sunday is the Jewish Feast of Firstfruits. Jesus was the Firstfruits of the grave. (First Corinthians 15:20)

Unleavened Bread - According to Scripture, “Passover Week” is the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Leavening is figurative of sin; Jesus was “unleavened,” without sin. Jesus paid the price at the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

There is a thread of continuity that flows through the seven feasts, or appointed times, first given by the Lord. Here are the steps taken in completing the Jewish wedding and its application to the wedding of the Church to the Lord Jesus, followed by how this ties to the seven appointed feasts of Israel:

The steps of the traditional Jewish wedding:

1 – Selection of the Bride
Jewish Wedding - The Son chooses the Bride – the Father makes the arrangements
Church - John 15:16 – “You did not choose Me, but I chose you . . .”

2 – The Bride Price established
Jewish Wedding - The father of the bride must be reimbursed for the loss of his daughter.
Church - I Corinthians 6:20 - “For you were bought with a price.” The Bride price was paid when Jesus died on the Cross.

We who are saved by Jesus were sought by the Lord. (Isaiah 65:1) Jesus paid the price on Passover. The appointed times of Firstfruits and Unleavened Bread complete the picture of Jesus being resurrected and being sinless, the spotless Lamb of God.

The Spring Feasts have all been fulfilled.

Pentecost, or the Feast of Weeks, was the fourth appointed time given by the Lord in Leviticus 23:15-22.

The steps of the traditional Jewish wedding:

3 – The Betrothal
Jewish Wedding - More than mere “engagement”, it was a permanent arrangement. Recall the story of Joseph and Mary.
Church – The attachment of the Church to the Lord is also permanent, and forever. “This is the bread which came down from heaven--not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.” (John 6:58) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand. (John 10:28)

4 – The Marriage Contract
Jewish Wedding – A written agreement committing each party to the marriage.
Church - The entire Holy Bible is our written agreement containing the promises of God. Jesus said, “If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed;” (John 8:31)

5 – The Bride must consent
Jewish Wedding – This is not entirely an arranged marriage; the bride must agree.
Church – “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;” (Mark 16:16) “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” (Romans 10:9)

6 – The Bridal Gift and the Cup of the Covenant
Jewish Wedding – A glass of wine is taken upon the signing of the contract.
Church – Each time we gather around the Lord’s Table, we remember the “contract.” “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave [it] to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament (covenant), which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:27-28)
Jewish Wedding – The Bride is given a gift by the groom.
Church - The Holy Spirit is given by Jesus –– “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” (Acts 2:38) This, of course, occurred on the Day of Pentecost.

7 – The Ceremonial Purification of the Bride
Jewish Wedding - The next step for the Bride after she is betrothed is a ceremonial cleansing. In Biblical times the Bride would use a Mikvah, which was pool of water, in which she would immerse herself.
Church - Acts 2:41 – “Then those who gladly received his word were baptized (immersed); and that day about three thousand souls were added [to them].”

The Church is an insertion in the Lord's Plan. Israel was the original bride. I believe that the Lord Jesus will come for His bride, the Church, in a separate event (the Rapture) from the Lord's return for His bride, Israel. From this point forward in the Jewish Wedding process, following the purification of the bride, in my opinion the Church will be dealt with separately in the time defined as the Church Age, or the Age of Grace. This period of time will extend from the first Day of Pentecost to the day when the Lord Jesus calls us Home.

8 – The Groom would prepare a room for the Bride in his father’s house
Church - John 14:3 – “I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself.”

The father of the groom determines when the room is ready. The groom does not determine the time of the wedding. “But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” (Matthew 24:36)

9 – The Bride is consecrated and set apart
Church - First Peter 2:9 – “But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people.”

10 – The Groom returns with a shout, “Behold, the bridegroom comes!”
Church - First Thessalonians 4:16 – “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.”

Let me insert an additional hope at this point. When the Lord Jesus comes for His Bride, the Church, we will not be totally surprised. Although the Jewish bride did not know the day or the hour, she was expectant. The Apostle Paul in speaking of “that Day” said, “But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day.” (First Thessalonians 5:4-5) Today, many in the Church are expectant and will not be totally surprised.

11 – The Bride and Groom go to the wedding chamber.
Church – This period when the Bride and Groom spend time together seems to show that the Bride of Jesus will be with Him in Heaven. This appears to indicate a pre-Tribulation gathering of the Church, and is described in Isaiah 26:20; “Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.” Praise the Lord!

12 – The Marriage Supper
Church – “‘Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.’ And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. Then he said to me, ‘Write: Blessed [are] those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’” (The Revelation 19:7-9)

In my opinion, the Feast of Pentecost is still being fulfilled and will be completed when the Lord Jesus comes for His bride.

I believe that in the remaining steps of the Jewish Wedding process, the steps will be fulfilled for Israel in a separate manner.

The next appointed time is the Feast of Trumpets. The Feast of Trumpets is a mysterious time. Of all the feasts, or appointed times, little is said of it and no scriptural reason for the feast is given. (see Leviticus 23:23-25) A trumpet (the Shofar) is blown. Trumpets make announcements. I suspect that the Feast of Trumpets will be when the Lord in some manner announces the time has come for the fulfillment of His plan for Israel.

==============================================================================================================

The Last Trump end the Pentecost/Harvest/Church Age and announces that the Fall Feasts have arrived. Jesus fulfilled the three Spring of Passover, Unleavened Bread and First-fruits. We are now in the Feast of Pentecost, the Harvest of souls so to speak. When the Last Trump sounds we will be called to the marriage chambers to marry the Lamb (Rev. 19). Then God will deal with Israel's 70th week prophecy. 

The Feast of Trumps sounds, announcing that the Pentecost/Harvest is over and that the Feasts of Atonement and Tabernacle are nigh at hand.

Feast of Atonement, Elijah is sent to turn Israel back unto God (Malachi 4:5-6), thus we know Israel repents before the Day of the Lord. So The Trump sounds, the Church is taken to Heaven when in a traditional Jewish Wedding the Bride stays in the fathers house 7 days (7 years) and then Israel atones just as the Daniel 9:24-27 prophecy says they must do before the 70th week can end. 

Feast of Tabernacle, the word tabernacle means to Dwell with God !! Where does Jesus (God) live for 1000 years ? In Jerusalem with the Jewish peoples, so in the Seven Feasts we get God's entire plan with mankind, if we listen carefully. Jesus fulfilled the Spring Feasts with his death. The Gentile Church then Harvests souls during the 2000 some odd year Church Age where Jews take part only IN PART because they are Blinded for the MOST PART as Rom. 11:25 says. Then when the Last Trump sounds, the Church goes to the Marriage Chambers in Heaven, and Israel's 70th week starts up, they must Atone before the 70th week can come to pass. Then Jesus will show up and save them in their hiding place of Petra, then Jesus will dwell with them for 1000 years which means to Tabernacle. 

 

Very interesting.  I also believe that the feasts represent a pattern of God's Plan. The Hebrew wedding sure does seem to fit.

Very interesting, indeed.  The outline makes much more sense to me as a baseline to understand the prophets and John's book because it is 'grounded' in what we actually know and can be assured of; that the pattern of the original tabernacle and the feasts' meaning are of a certainty God communicating something to us.

He does nothing and says nothing in a vacuum...everything connects. Have you thought to link the 6(7) days of the Genesis account?

If that makes any sense.

 

[dhchristian]

13 hours ago, ENOCH2010 said:

Do you all see what happens when the truth is about to be reveled, the above happens, a post is bombed on every thread in this forum to hide the truth in a bunch of non sense. 

That is why I do not comment on this forum as much as I used to. Too many Know it alls that are incapable of learning. I Do not know what side of the rapture debate you are on per/se I myself am pre-wrath, But ultimately I think God made revelation that way so that we would come to Him to learn from Him. The more we try to place God in a box, the more we miss the point of prophecy. He is God, He can remove his church from the world whenever he wants, and all of prophecy will be fulfilled as he fore  ordained even though we never figured it out rightly.

I Mean the whole of the Old Testament pointed to Jesus, and the people who knew the Old testament the best missed out on this Truth in large part, and Jesus said: I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. (Matt. 11:25)

I Think many will be severely disappointed when they find out their pet doctrines did not make God's Timeline. 

[Alive]

13 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

That is why I do not comment on this forum as much as I used to. Too many Know it alls that are incapable of learning. I Do not know what side of the rapture debate you are on per/se I myself am pre-wrath, But ultimately I think God made revelation that way so that we would come to Him to learn from Him. The more we try to place God in a box, the more we miss the point of prophecy. He is God, He can remove his church from the world whenever he wants, and all of prophecy will be fulfilled as he fore  ordained even though we never figured it out rightly.

I Mean the whole of the Old Testament pointed to Jesus, and the people who knew the Old testament the best missed out on this Truth in large part, and Jesus said: I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. (Matt. 11:25)

I Think many will be severely disappointed when they find out their pet doctrines did not make God's Timeline. 

Yup---I think that all of us with sincere minds wish to know these things and we set out minds to understand. This is not a 'bad' thing, just an inadequate thing.

:-)

As I have said several times before, I have never really set myself to seek and understand the 'end times'--other than what comes as a matter of course fellowshipping and reading this and that over the years.

I think that what happens is certain ones start from an assumption and then build a case around it. Not all, but some. I just simply don't know beyond a basic outline of events to happen based on ones that have already happened and faithful to the prophecies that foretold them.

For myself, I am in the process of listening to all that speak on these things and wait for the Lord to shed light and speak to me. So far, He has been silent. Mostly.

I feel certain of one thing--we will know when we know and likely as we get closer. A friend tells His friend what He is up to and we are His Friends.

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, Alive said:

Yup---I think that all of us with sincere minds wish to know these things and we set out minds to understand. This is not a 'bad' thing, just an inadequate thing.

:-)

As I have said several times before, I have never really set myself to seek and understand the 'end times'--other than what comes as a matter of course fellowshipping and reading this and that over the years.

I think that what happens is certain ones start from an assumption and then build a case around it. Not all, but some. I just simply don't know beyond a basic outline of events to happen based on ones that have already happened and faithful to the prophecies that foretold them.

For myself, I am in the process of listening to all that speak on these things and wait for the Lord to shed light and speak to me. So far, He has been silent. Mostly.

I feel certain of one thing--we will know when we know and likely as we get closer. A friend tells His friend what He is up to and we are His Friends.

Its OK to have a different opinion even if you are in error, we see darkly at this present time, I understand that. But then some mock the very people who are right on the subject, I think they get frustrated that they can't persuade us with bad facts. I can overcome every point they make because I am following what the bible says on the subject. So its a waste of their time, and it seems to frustrate them I guess. 

3 hours ago, Alive said:

He does nothing and says nothing in a vacuum...everything connects. Have you thought to link the 6(7) days of the Genesis account?

If that makes any sense.

I have a blog on the Creation of the Universe that explains how the Universe is 13.7 billion years old and the first day {YOWM} lasted 9.2 billion years until the 2nd day when the earth was created 4.5 billion years ago. The word YOWM in Hebrew has about 50 different meanings, its not just used for day, but for year, month, period of time, morning and evening, X Whole, in other words its about a PERIOD OF TIME and the reader or writer has to place the proper time frame in there when its used or figure out what the proper time period was. 

I don't know if this is what you meant.......but it actually shows via the WMAP map that mapped out the Universe with Microwaves how the first 400 millions years were total DARKNESS before any stars were ever created....Now does this verse make sense ?

Gen. 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Notice how science PROVES God's holy word is correct ? First there was DARKNESS on the face of the deep.......THEN......the Stars formed later !! 400 Million years of Darkness on the face of the deep, then the Stars were formed. 

Many people confuse day four (4) for the Sun being formed after the earth, but that is not the point, God created the Seasons on day 4, the Earth and the Moon collided and they were about the same size, the earth gained the bulk of the mass and the moon became our STABILIZING SATELLITE that allows our seasons to be orderly and keeps our weather from wiping us out, without the moon the earth would be unhabitable. So God set the Seasons on day four.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Revelation Man

[dhchristian]

12 minutes ago, Alive said:

Yup---I think that all of us with sincere minds wish to know these things and we set out minds to understand. This is not a 'bad' thing, just an inadequate thing.

:-)

As I have said several times before, I have never really set myself to seek and understand the 'end times'--other than what comes as a matter of course fellowshipping and reading this and that over the years.

I think that what happens is certain ones start from an assumption and then build a case around it. Not all, but some. I just simply don't know beyond a basic outline of events to happen based on ones that have already happened and faithful to the prophecies that foretold them.

For myself, I am in the process of listening to all that speak on these things and wait for the Lord to shed light and speak to me. So far, He has been silent. Mostly.

I feel certain of one thing--we will know when we know and likely as we get closer. A friend tells His friend what He is up to and we are His Friends.

Here is what I think.... The church around the world has been persecuted. the church in the west largely has not. The god of this world (Satan) has done this deliberately, that he can persecute this church that lives in luxury just like Job who was blessed. This being the great tribulation, and the wrath of Satan. Am I right? That is what I think could be the case? Rev. 12:11 seems to indicate this will be the case. Those who have ears to hear understand this as the same reason why the U.S. left Hiroshima and Nagasaki largely free from bombs in WW2. Pet doctrines uch as the pre trib rapture play a role in this as well. Only in a country free from persecution can this sort of doctrine flourish. Ask a NOKO Christian or a Christian in Islamic countries if they hold this doctrine, and many will laugh at you. I Know this has occurred to me before. But, Like I said, Jesus can decide to remove His church whenever he sees fit to do so, and I will not put him into a box and say he cannot because my understanding says so. 

[dhchristian]

Just now, Revelation Man said:

I have a blog on the Creation of the Universe that explains how the Universe is 13.7 billion years old and the first day {YOWM} lasted 9.2 billion years until the 2nd day when the earth was created 4.5 billion years ago.

I Have a God who says he can create in one day what you think took billions of years, Just like he can create a person without them ever being born from the dust of the earth as a fully grown adult, with age. 

[Last Daze]

34 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

Here is what I think.... The church around the world has been persecuted. the church in the west largely has not. The god of this world (Satan) has done this deliberately, that he can persecute this church that lives in luxury just like Job who was blessed. This being the great tribulation, and the wrath of Satan. Am I right? That is what I think could be the case? Rev. 12:11 seems to indicate this will be the case. Those who have ears to hear understand this as the same reason why the U.S. left Hiroshima and Nagasaki largely free from bombs in WW2. Pet doctrines uch as the pre trib rapture play a role in this as well. Only in a country free from persecution can this sort of doctrine flourish. Ask a NOKO Christian or a Christian in Islamic countries if they hold this doctrine, and many will laugh at you. I Know this has occurred to me before. But, Like I said, Jesus can decide to remove His church whenever he sees fit to do so, and I will not put him into a box and say he cannot because my understanding says so. 

Yeah, the pretrib rapture doesn't even pass the smell test.  Why take a sleeping pill if you're trying to stay awake?