Rapture before the antichrist in Matthew 24

[Alive]

16 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

@iamlamad Has a unique view on the opening of the seals that most prophecy scholars do not agree with. There is some merit to what and why he believes this to be the case, and I am in partial agreement with him on this, but disagree with his particular interpretation of the seals, particularly the rider on the white horse. 

My view is that the first five seals were opened at Pentecost and the church has been dealing with that tribulation since then.... John himself saying he is a companion in tribulation, (Rev 1:9) And Paul stating  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. (2 Thess. 2:7)

Thus the whole church age is the tribulation, and consists of these five seals being loosed. The question then arises when is the sixth seal and the rapture? Is the sixth seal opened at the outset of the final week, or is it some time later. For me personally Matthew 24 is clear on this being after the Antichrist has ruled for 42 months where as Iamlamad thinks it is before this, which all depends on how you read Matthew 24 and whether you add a parenthesis or not to those verses which speak of the sixth seal.  I Will let Him explain his view to you better, My view is that we will be raptured after the Great tribulation as per revelation 7:14, the great tribulation being a 3.5 year period at the beginning of the final week for Israel that begins with the abomination of desolation, the Man of sin declaring himself God followed by a time of desolations. 

My view is that I hope the pretribbers are right, But from what I read and see is that they are not right, and we need to be ready to face the great tribulation as a church. 

So you think the Lord takes us home at the mid-point of the week of years?

 

[dhchristian]

23 minutes ago, Alive said:

So you think the Lord takes us home at the mid-point of the week of years?

I Am pre-wrath. What I believe is that the fall feasts will play out in the end times as follows... simply explained it is a birth.

Birth pangs is the church age and represents the 30 days of Elul, which precede the feast of trumpets, these are the birth pangs.  The ten days of Awe follow that which is the actual labor leading up to the Day of Atonement, This being the great tribulation. Then you have the Season sorrow turning to joy that a child is born, which is the ingathering (booths) (rapture). I Have a post here in the prophecy section that explains and triangulates this position in detail. It is just one of a myriad of explanations and timelines out there, so do not bog yourself down in it too much. (NOTE: The last part of that study is found on page 9 I believe, if you do read it as I got sidetracked from finishing it early on.)

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/244530-johns-7-visions-and-triangulating-with-other-scriptures/

 

[Revelation Man]

13 hours ago, iamlamad said:

It is ok if you think you have all the answers.  I am reminded of one of Socrates' famous quotes: "...people that THINK they know when in fact they don't..."

I know I heard from Jesus. I know His voice. You have not believed the truth of the first 5 seals already opened because of preconceived glasses.

When suddenly the 6th seal is opened, then you will know we have been waiting at the 5th seal all this time.

Its called KNOWING God's voice, if it was indeed "my answers" I would have never started Preaching brother. I have to contain myself from telling you and a few others what I really think of this mad thesis you guys have put forth. 

13 hours ago, iamlamad said:

EVERYTHING COMES out of the 7 Seals

It seems you miss something: the seals are there as SEALS sealing the BOOK. The BOOK is more important than the seals sealing it.  This book is a legal document created in the courtroom of heaven. It is EXTREMELY important, as John shows us. Why? Because it contains the 70th week of Daniel.  Get this straight: the 70th week cannot begin until all 7 seals are opened so that the BOOK can be opened to reveal first, the 7 trumpet judgments.

Next, nothing written in a seal can legally be started until that seal is opened. In other words, it would be illegal in heaven's court room for the Red horse and rider to start a war before that seal was opened. Nothing written in the seals is going to happen until that seal is opened. Many won't believe this, but it is truth anyway: Jesus could not send out the church to the nations unless He opened that first seal. I am convinced: Satan did not think the day would ever come that someone could escape from hell and be found worthy to open the seals.

When people talk of the seals and forget the book, that tells us something.

Everything comes from a 7 Sealed Scroll. The word biblion can mean a SMALL BOOK, a Scroll or even a written legal document.

NOTICE: The Scroll/book can't be read until ALL 7 Seals are opened. Have you ever thought that through ? Most documents had 2 or 3 seals on them at most, this was God's Written Document, so it had Seven Seals stopping anyone from reading it in full until all 7 had been Broken. Likewise, these 7 Trumpets can not come until all 7 Seals have been opened. The 7 Seals Judgments are also contained within the book, there is nothing to read until you get all 7 Seals opened !! Of course there is no actual document on the 5 Horses, you just see God's actions via the Anti-Christ, you see God's 6th Seal Wrath God/Jesus announced pour out of the 7 Trumps when they sound,  which the LAST SEAL releases or opens the book/scroll. Nothing is seen until the 7th Seal is opened. 

So it goes like this, the Seals are just prose by God/Jesus telling you what is going to happen over the next 42 Months of God's Wrath !! Jesus gets the Seven Sealed Book/Scroll while in Heaven with the Church, during the 70th week, during the 3.5 years of FALSE PEACE, right close to the end of the first 3.5 years. Then he opens the 7 Seals all at the SAME TIME, on day 1261. NOTHING can be read until ALL 7 Seals are broken, DO YOU GET THAT BROTHER ? 

So the Anti-Christ's coming 42 Month reign of Conquering is ONE SEAL !! Its like Jesus saying, THIS IS ABOUT TO GO DOWN GUYS !! Then the 2nd Seal is Jesus saying this 42 Months will bring Wars also via he takes away PEACE. Then Jesus opens the 3rd Seal which says Famine is on the way for 42 months. Then Jesus opens seal 4 which says Death and Sickness is coming. Then the 5th Seal is opened and Jesus shows how there will be Martyrs by this mad man over a 42 month period. Then God opens the 6th Seal and says MY WRATH IS NIGH AT HAND {The 7 Trumps/3 Woes}. Then God opens the 7th Seal and SILENCE is in Heaven because its a GO, GO, GO, GO, GO !! The book is opened, the Trumps start SOUNDING, ANNOUNCEMENTS from the Sealed book come forth !! The Judgments start. At the precise moment the Anti-Christ is Conquering Jerusalem on day 1261 of the 70th week, and on the same day Satan is kicked out of Heaven, the 7th Seal is opened and God's Wrath/The Lambs Wrath starts. The Sealed Book/Scroll is now readable. ONLY when the 7th Seal is opened can the Judgments be ANNOUNCED !! The other is just Jesus showing what is coming over a 42 month period, via the coming Anti-Christ's actions AND his coming Wrath. He gives glimpses into what the Anti-Christ will bring forth and what the Lambs Wrath will look like. Whilst they converge over the same time period, they are two different actions, the Anti-Christ is allowed to go forth, but its not Jesus' Wrath because he kills the Martyrs {I just realized this}. So even though Jesus Wrath does last 3.5 years like I have always maintained, God teaches me afresh everyday. The Seals open the book, but the Wrath starts with the 7 Trumpets, but everything comes out of OR must wait until the Seals are opened up.

YOU SEE.....When you are kinda right on something I can overcome my own preconceived ideas. BUT....my point remains, nothing can come until the 7th Seal is opened, that was my point, but I stated it comes out of the 7th Seal when I should have stated the 7th Seal must BE OPENED before the Wrath can start. It kinda means the same thing but technically I was stating it wrong. But can you see that all the Seals have to be opened before ANYTHING can happen ? There is nothing to read until ALL the Seals are opened !! What you are doing is trying to say, this seal was this....and this seal was this....NO, the Seals are only Jesus opening the Sealed book, hes telling us what is coming in the 42 Month reign of the Beast.

You are IN ERROR saying the 70th week can't begin until all the Seals have been opened. The Wrath of God {3.5 years} can't begin until all 7 Seals have been opened, now that I would agree with, but I have always thought that. The Seals have NOTHING to do with the Churches work, its all about the Anti-Christ's works on earth during a 42 month period of time, save the 6th Seal which foretell God's Wrath/Lambs Wrath is nigh.

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Revelation Man

[iamlamad]

40 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Its called KNOWING God's voice, if it was indeed "my answers" I would have never started Preaching brother. I have to contain myself from telling you and a few others what I really think of this mad thesis you guys have put forth. 

Everything comes from a 7 Sealed Scroll. The word biblion can mean a SMALL BOOK, a Scroll or even a written legal document.

NOTICE: The Scroll/book can't be read until ALL 7 Seals are opened. Have you ever thought that through ? Most documents had 2 or 3 seals on them at most, this was God's Written Document, so it had Seven Seals stopping anyone from reading it in full until all 7 had been Broken. Likewise, these 7 Trumpets can not come until all 7 Seals have been opened. The 7 Seals Judgments are also contained within the book, there is nothing to read until you get all 7 Seals opened !! Of course there is no actual document on the 5 Horses, you just see God's actions via the Anti-Christ, you see God's 6th Seal Wrath God/Jesus announced pour out of the 7 Trumps when they sound,  which the LAST SEAL releases or opens the book/scroll. Nothing is seen until the 7th Seal is opened. 

So it goes like this, the Seals are just prose by God/Jesus telling you what is going to happen over the next 42 Months of God's Wrath !! Jesus gets the Seven Sealed Book/Scroll while in Heaven with the Church, during the 70th week, during the 3.5 years of FALSE PEACE, right close to the end of the first 3.5 years. Then he opens the 7 Seals all at the SAME TIME, on day 1261. NOTHING can be read until ALL 7 Seals are broken, DO YOU GET THAT BROTHER ? 

So the Anti-Christ's coming 42 Month reign of Conquering is ONE SEAL !! Its like Jesus saying, THIS IS ABOUT TO GO DOWN GUYS !! Then the 2nd Seal is Jesus saying this 42 Months will bring Wars also via he takes away PEACE. Then Jesus opens the 3rd Seal which says Famine is on the way for 42 months. Then Jesus opens seal 4 which says Death and Sickness is coming. Then the 5th Seal is opened and Jesus shows how there will be Martyrs by this mad man over a 42 month period. Then God opens the 6th Seal and says MY WRATH IS NIGH AT HAND {The 7 Trumps/3 Woes}. Then God opens the 7th Seal and SILENCE is in Heaven because its a GO, GO, GO, GO, GO !! The book is opened, the Trumps start SOUNDING, ANNOUNCEMENTS from the Sealed book come forth !! The Judgments start. At the precise moment the Anti-Christ is Conquering Jerusalem on day 1261 of the 70th week, and on the same day Satan is kicked out of Heaven, the 7th Seal is opened and God's Wrath/The Lambs Wrath starts. The Sealed Book/Scroll is now readable. ONLY when the 7th Seal is opened can the Judgments be ANNOUNCED !! The other is just Jesus showing what is coming over a 42 month period, via the coming Anti-Christ's actions AND his coming Wrath. He gives glimpses into what the Anti-Christ will bring forth and what the Lambs Wrath will look like. Whilst they converge over the same time period, they are two different actions, the Anti-Christ is allowed to go forth, but its not Jesus' Wrath because he kills the Martyrs {I just realized this}. So even though Jesus Wrath does last 3.5 years like I have always maintained, God teaches me afresh everyday. The Seals open the book, but the Wrath starts with the 7 Trumpets, but everything comes out of OR must wait until the Seals are opened up.

YOU SEE.....When you are kinda right on something I can overcome my own preconceived ideas. BUT....my point remains, nothing can come until the 7th Seal is opened, that was my point, but I stated it comes out of the 7th Seal when I should have stated the 7th Seal must BE OPENED before the Wrath can start. It kinda means the same thing but technically I was stating it wrong. But can you see that all the Seals have to be opened before ANYTHING can happen ? There is nothing to read until ALL the Seals are opened !! What you are doing is trying to say, this seal was this....and thus seal was this....NO, the Seals are only Jesus opening the Sealed book, hes telling us what is coming in the 42 Month reign of the Beast.

You are IN ERROR saying the 70th week can't begin until all the Seals have been opened. The Wrath of God {3.5 years} can't begin until all 7 Seals have been opened, now that I agree with, but I have always thought that. The Seals have NOTHING to do with the Churches work, its all about the Anti-Christ's works on earth during a 42 month period of time.

 

It is error imagining that the 70th week can come before the 7th seal is opened. 

What is missing: the 70th week is what is written INSIDE THE BOOK! 

That is why the many are in error imagining that the first seal has anything to do with the 70th week or the Antichrist.  The first seal was opened as soon as Jesus ascended and took the book from the Father. It is to represent the CHURCH sent out with the Gospel.

[Revelation Man]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

It is error imagining that the 70th week can come before the 7th seal is opened. 

What is missing: the 70th week is what is written INSIDE THE BOOK! 

That is why the many are in error imagining that the first seal has anything to do with the 70th week or the Antichrist.  The first seal was opened as soon as Jesus ascended and took the book from the Father. It is to represent the CHURCH sent out with the Gospel.

No, just you and a few others are in error. 

[The Light]

20 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

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Rev. 19 is the "GATHERING" spoken of in Matt. 24

No sir. I know that's what is commonly taught by those that believe in a pretrib rapture, but it is wrong. Here is the Gathering spoken of in Matt 24.

Rev 14

¹⁴ And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

¹⁵ And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

¹⁶ And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

¹⁷ And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

¹⁸ And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

¹⁹ And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

 

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, BUT its speaking of Gathering US Saints from "ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER" to come back with Jesus, where he saves the Jews who are in hiding, I am afraid the Remnant Church will all be killed by then, at least 99 percent, there could be a few stragglers deep in the amazon, or in caves who survive until we return WITH Jesus, after the Marriage in Heaven.

No sir. The gathering is from heaven and earth. The Church is gathered from heaven as they were raptured pretrib, before the seals are opened. The twelve tribes (not including the nation of Israel)is gathered from the earth. They will both return to heaven as the great multitude. The gathering is from heaven and earth.

Mark 13

²⁷ And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

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As per Matt. 24 and Rev. 6, ONLY verses 15-31, really 25/26 are about the 70th week. Verses 1-3 are Jesus and the Disciples talking, verses 4-6 is about the 70 AD event and verses 7-14 are about the Church Age. Verses 15-31 is the Wrath of God.

No sir. I know that it what is commonly taught and yet there is still one stone upon another on the Temple mount. There is no talk of 70 AD, it is a wrong conclusion. The Temple will be rebuilt and then ALL THE STONES will be cast down.

Matt 24

² And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

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The tribulation period and the Wrath of God overlap,

No sir. I know that's what is commonly taught, because few understand the proper timeline. In the following verses we see that the tribulation is over before the wrath of God begins.

Matt 24

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Rev 6

¹² And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

¹³ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

¹⁴ And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

¹⁵ And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

¹⁶ And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

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and one could say Jesus ALLOWS the Anti-Christ to GO FORTH Conquering, thus it is the Lambs Wrath, God gave Israel the King they so desired, and he brought forth evil on the Nation.

The wrath of God and the wrath of the Lamb are the same. Everyone knows it's coming when they see Jesus in clouds and the angels gathering. The wrath itself begins at the 7th seal. The church is in heaven during Rev 4 and 5. The wrath doesn't begin until Rev 8.

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Jesus OPENS the Seals at the Midway point, but the First 5 Seals are showing WHAT WILL COME over the next 42 Months, the Four Pointers are to what is coming, a Conquering {White Horses always represent CONQUERING,

No sir. The seals are opened at the beginning of the week. That is when the tribulation starts. The tribulation is over at the gathering of Matt 24 (Rev 6, Rev 14)

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See Rev. 19, Jesus goes forth to Conquer 3.5 years later}

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The PEACE is taken away {WAR}, so it is described as PEACE to let us know he Destroys MANY by PEACE see Daniel 8:25. These Wars bring FAMINE over a 42 month period, and finally all these ACTIONS by the Anti-Christ bring Death/Disease/The Grave over that 42 month period of time. The Martyrs are also killed over a 42 Month period of Time, all these Seals are opened on day 1261, thus the Beast has 42 Months to FULFILL all these things.

No sir. The beast has 42 months AFTER the tribulation which is the 70th week. There is war in heaven and the stars fall from heaven. From that point there is 42 months. The 70th week already over.

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The Wrath of God is OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED via the 6th Seal,

Yes sir.

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but the First Seal and the 6th Seal are all opened on day 1261,

No sir. The first seal is opened at the beginning of the week and the 6th seal is opened at the end of the week. There is war in heaven, the stars fall and then there is 42 months.

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7th Trump is the Last Woe and the Last Woe is the 7 Vials, so from the Seals come ALL OF Gods Wrath !! BOOM..........I got over excited.......BOOM. 

No sir. The seven vials are just another view of the 7 trumps, just as Rev 14 (which occurs before the vials) is another view of the coming of Jesus in Rev 6, which is another view of the gathering and the coming of Jesus in Matt 24.

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Anyone hear about the Asteroid that is supposed to whiz by us in 2029 ?

I have not. That's interesting. There is also a full eclipse over Jerusalem in 2027.

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I think that will b y the 7 Trumps if it hits, thus that is 9 years away, thus if it happens 3.5 years after the Rapture we are talking about WE CAN KNOW THE SUMMER but not the day and time !! Amen. A Christian gentleman had a vision on it, I think it was on "That's Supernatural} a Christian show. 

The rapture of the Church will happen before the 70th week, which is before any seals are opened. The gathering of Matt 24, Rev 6, Rev 14 will happen at the end of the 70th week. The tribulation will be over, there is war in heaven, the stars fall (angels), then the wrath of God begins. There are no believers on earth as the church has been remove pretrib, the twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth are removed at the gathering, pre wrath and then those in the nation of Israel that flee, go through the wrath of God, in a place of protection.

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Its ANNOUNCED at the 6th Seal, but the Seals which last 42 Months are God's Wrath also, God ALLOWED this King to come to power just like he gave Israel a King when they moaned and bickered. Its the Lambs Wrath, he OPENS the Seals, the Trumps are IN THE LAST SEAL !! The Last Trump = the 7 Vials or 3rd Woe, they all come from the 7th Seal. 

The 7th trump is the end.

Rev 10

⁷ But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

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Hes all over the place on TIMING, I don't take anyone serious that says the Seals are opened tbh. You are very close on pretty much everything.

I think you and I are quite a bit apart as I believe there are two raptures, one for the Church and one for the elect (scattered twelve tribes). The 144,000 first fruits, 12,000 from each tribe prove that there will be a harvest of the scattered 12 tribes. The fig tree has two harvest, the breba crop and the main harvest, like the days of Noah, and like the days of Lot.

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I think you need to reevaluate how the Seals operate in God's plans. EVERYTHING COMES out of the 7 Seals, not many grasp that.

Thank you for your commentary. I enjoyed reading it and used to believe the things you say, until I understood that the coming of Jesus in Matt 24 is not Rev 19. It is Revelation 6 and Rev 14. It is the gathering when Jesus sends his angels and stays in the clouds. It is not when returns with his armies to set up his kingdom.

 

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God Bless.

Thank you kindly brother. I hope you can make sense of the things I have said. The wrath of God and the 42 months is after the 70th week tribulation period. No believers are appointed to wrath.

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by The Light

[DeighAnn]

On 3/14/2020 at 3:01 PM, iamlamad said:

Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
DO we agree, that the red dragon, IN HEAVEN had a "governing body" of seven heads and ten horns, seven crowns upon his heads??

Sorry, but IN CONTEXT this verse is making reference to when Satan used King Herod to attempt to kill Jesus as a very young boy. 

I am pretty sure that King Herod killing all those 2 and under happened On Earth, the wonder appeared IN HEAVEN.

 

On 3/14/2020 at 3:01 PM, iamlamad said:

DO we agree that there is a " a beast- in the process of being set up now - governing body" HERE on earth, that will consist of seven heads and 10 horns ( NOT 7, like what was in heaven) but 10 crowns and made up of FLESH men?  
Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

We must understand that the 7 heads and ten horns seen on both Satan and on the Beast are not referring to one moment in time, but over time during the history  of Israel: as Rev. 17 said, "five of these are fallen."  Many believe the five fallen are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, And Greece. I do not disagree.  First, in our future, there will be ten kings with kingdoms, but the Beast will quickly take out 3 of the ten, making 7 kings and kingdoms left, and he will then become the 8th king over the 7. This will probably happen very quickly after the midpoint of the 70th week.

Daniel 2:31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.

Daniel 2:32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,

Daniel 2:33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

Daniel 2:34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

Daniel 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

I believe we are saying the same thing (except the first is an example of the system Satan set up before the katabole and is the reason he will quickly get rid of 3 of them so that it will be like  the previous one he had).  

 

On 3/14/2020 at 3:01 PM, iamlamad said:

These are not the ten kings and kingdoms from which the Beast will take out three leaving 7. These are ten kings that will "throw in" with the Beast at the Battle of Armageddon, as God calls in the nations of the world to defeat them. In other words, no one knows who these ten will be until very late in the 70th week of Daniel, perhaps in Revelation during the time of chapters 16, 17, 18 and 19.

I think we disagree.  We will see.  

 

On 3/14/2020 at 3:01 PM, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but this is a MYTH. Satan is the god of this world now, not God. Surely you have prayed, "may God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven." The truth is, God's will is NOT being done on earth. The earth is still under the curse.  It is Satan that kills through wars and pestilences etc. God is not the author of disasters. God does not kill a mother with kids with cancer. All this is the devil's doing.

Satan has NEVER BEEN A GOD, NEVER WILL BE.  Satan is a created being and once was a king but now is "prince of the power of the air".  Just as God did with Pharaoh and Nebuchadnezzar, HE will use whom ever he will.  

Free will.  

Luke 13:1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.

Luke 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Luke 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?

Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.



God is the ONE AND ONLY GOD.  

Isaiah 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Isaiah 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

On 3/14/2020 at 3:01 PM, iamlamad said:

The following scripture is about HISTORY: Antiochus Epiphanes:

 

On 3/14/2020 at 3:01 PM, iamlamad said:

You snuck these verses that are FUTURE in with the previous that are ancient history.

GOD USES THE PAST AS EXAMPLES FOR THE FUTURE.  I didn't "sneek" in anything.  

 

On 3/14/2020 at 3:01 PM, iamlamad said:

We must understand that for most of the last half of the week, the Beast and False Prophet will be LIVING in Jerusalem. Since the Beast will be possessed by Satan, the seat of Satan will move to Jerusalem. The ENTIRE WORLD will be deceived by the Beast and False Prophet from Jerusalem.

THE BEAST is a political system.  




 

On 3/14/2020 at 3:01 PM, iamlamad said:

OF COURSE they are to be taken literally! Jerusalem will be under siege. Many will be killed as in all wars. Many Jews will be led out of the city as prisoners to be made slaves.  The "woman" is "that great city" and is speaking of the city of Jerusalem.

REALLY?  That's not going to be very convincing is it? 

Is it going to be like "Hi, I am christ returned, and I am now going to enslave and KILL people.   WHO is it that will believe him at that point???  Certainly not "the whole world".  

 

On 3/14/2020 at 3:01 PM, iamlamad said:

MYTH. Jerusalem the physical city will be rebuilt and become Jesus headquarters for the Millennial Reign. But Jerusalem as "Mystery Babylon"  - the city that deceived the entire world - will be totally destroyed and never be seen again.

And in the twinkling of an eye, ALL FLESH will be changed, though not all will receive immortality.   Satan will be bound.  The Lords Day will get under way.   Sorry, "all flesh" will not be changed.  And of those who will be changed, some: the church - will have been changed and resurrected before the 70th week begins. Those who are martyred during the week will be resurrected, but those who survive the week and pass the sheep and goat judgment will remain in natural bodies to repopulation the earth.

...
God is setting up an eternal kingdom too wonderful for us to even imagine.  But it is a Kingdom that has specific righteous ways and it is going to be for people whos SPIRIT is either naturally righteous or has through discipline become naturally righteous. Sorry, but Born again people are MADE righteous the moment they are born again. They are at that time as righteous as they ever will be, for we all put on HIS righteousness. However, we all need to grow up into the full stature of the example of Christ.

Maybe reading from here

Ezekiel 40:1 In the five and twentieth year of our captivity, in the beginning of the year, in the tenth day of the month, in the fourteenth year after that the city was smitten, in the selfsame day the hand of the LORD was upon me, and brought me thither.

Ezekiel 40:2 In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south.

Ezekiel 40:3 And he brought me thither, and, behold, there was a man, whose appearance was like the appearance of brass, with a line of flax in his hand, and a measuring reed; and he stood in the gate.

Ezekiel 40:4 And the man said unto me, Son of man, behold with thine eyes, and hear with thine ears, and set thine heart upon all that I shall shew thee; for to the intent that I might shew them unto thee art thou brought hither: declare all that thou seest to the house of Israel.

Ezekiel 40:5 And behold a wall on the outside of the house round about, and in the man's hand a measuring reed of six cubits long by the cubit and an hand breadth: so he measured the breadth of the building, one reed; and the height, one reed.

to here

Ezekiel 48:32 And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan.

Ezekiel 48:33 And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun.

Ezekiel 48:34 At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali.

Ezekiel 48:35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The LORD is there.

will help.  Where is it Jesus foot touches down?  What happens at that point? 





On this also, I must stick with  the Word of God

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Flesh doesn't do well past, well for some very young.  So lets say someone is 105 when Christ returns.  Are you saying they will live to be 1120 in a flesh body? 

AND RE-POPULATE THE EARTH?  

Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

I am going with we don't have the same understanding and beliefs



 

Isaiah 45:8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.

Isaiah 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

Isaiah 45:10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?

Isaiah 45:11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

Isaiah 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

Matt 24

² And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Matthew 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Matthew 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Could you give me your thoughts on this interpretation?  That,  that is above refers to the 70AD when the temple was destroyed and FOLLOWING THAT was that question and the question about HIS Return answered.  There are two questions asked and two different events answered.   
 

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

Answers question 1


Answers question 2

Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Matthew 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

I once tried to "overlay" Matt 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13.  As I remember, two of the 3 fit perfectly together, but the 3rd was just off.  I started thinking that the one that didn't quite  fit went with the 70 ad and the other two went with Christs return.  Have you ever heard of this?  Just wondering...

 

 

 

[Revelation Man]

5 hours ago, The Light said:

No sir. I know that's what is commonly taught by those that believe in a pretrib rapture, but it is wrong. Here is the Gathering spoken of in Matt 24.

Rev 14

¹⁴ And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

¹⁵ And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

¹⁶ And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

¹⁷ And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

¹⁸ And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

¹⁹ And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

That is the Rapture, shown in Matt. 24:36-51. 

I agree that Rev. 14 is THE HARVEST Chapter. It covers a full 7 years. We see Jesus show up on Mt. Zion, he saves the Jews in Petra, and they are shown with him on Mt. Zion in verse 1, Israel are thus THE WHEAT, in verses 18-20 we see THE TARES, the Wicked that God places in His Wine-press, and slays them or BINDS them into bundles to be burned at a later date {Second Resurrection/Second Death in 1000 years}. 

But in a sorta SOLILOQUY, in verse 14, we see where Jesus Raptured the Church from a Cloud by thrusting in the Sickle Himself. Verses 18 and 19 however have nothing to do with that time-frame, it happens 7 years earlier. The book of Revelation is not a Sequenced book. 

5 hours ago, The Light said:

No sir. The gathering is from heaven and earth. The Church is gathered from heaven as they were raptured pretrib, before the seals are opened. The twelve tribes (not including the nation of Israel)is gathered from the earth. They will both return to heaven as the great multitude. The gathering is from heaven and earth.

Mark 13

²⁷ And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Why do you CHANGE Gospels to try and get a preferred outcome brother ? 

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Now you see what it says ? 

We are Gathered FROM Heaven to return with Jesus just like Rev. 19 says. We Marry the Lamb and the Return with Jesus. Now God will also Gather his on earth when WE GET HERE, but the Bride is in Heaven, we are Gathered from Heaven FIRST.....So whatever Mark is speaking of in no wise mitigates what Matthew is speaking about. Changing books doesn't null and void the other Gospel brother.

5 hours ago, The Light said:

No sir. I know that it what is commonly taught and yet there is still one stone upon another on the Temple mount. There is no talk of 70 AD, it is a wrong conclusion. The Temple will be rebuilt and then ALL THE STONES will be cast down.

Matt 24

² And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Brother, come on man, so you don't understand the difference between the OUTER WALL and the Temple ? Not one whit of the Temple stands today, the Temple of God is not the same as the outer wall of the Gentiles brother, come on !! 

I have done an Exegesis on Matt. 24, verses 4-6 and it is about 70 AD. Vs. 7-14 is about the Church Age and verses 15-31 is about the 70th week tribulation. 

5 hours ago, The Light said:

No sir. I know that's what is commonly taught, because few understand the proper timeline. In the following verses we see that the tribulation is over before the wrath of God begins.

Matt 24

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Rev 6

¹² And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

¹³ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

¹⁴ And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

¹⁵ And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

¹⁶ And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

  Quote

So you are just off on your own and everybody else is wrong ? I know we can have revelation, like I do on where the Anti-Christ is born and what the 1260, 1290 and 1335 means, but no one knows those things yet. What you are trying to say is that the things we have known for eons are wrong, when its clear they are not wrong, your thesis on them is IMHO, wrong brother. 

So the Tribulation of THOSE DAYS starts in the Middle of the week at the 1260 event and the 6th Seal is opened at the 1260 event, Do you understand that is what is meant by IMMEDIATELY AFTER? So the Seals are all OPENED and then the Sun and Moon sign happens, a 1/3 of the skies are darkened. The fires cause this, its a plume of smoke as far as one can see, it hinders the sunlight, moon light and star being seen !! Not understanding how to read these old  English texts is a major problem with today's Church. I have studied this deeply for 35 years. I have gotten used to these Old English versions. 

So after the TRIBULATION DAYS we will see Jesus come back, WELL YEA............ Of course we do, the tribulation period lasts 3.5 years, that is why Israel is in HIDING !! 1260 DAYS !! So Israel just stays in hiding because shes happy being in Petra ? NO, Because the Anti-Christ is killing people for 1260 days brother !!

 

6 hours ago, The Light said:

The wrath of God and the wrath of the Lamb are the same. Everyone knows it's coming when they see Jesus in clouds and the angels gathering. The wrath itself begins at the 7th seal. The church is in heaven during Rev 4 and 5. The wrath doesn't begin until Rev 8.

 

Jesus is God......The Wrath begins with the 1st Trumpet but the Seven Seals are Jesus speaking about what the Anti-Christ is going to do over the same 42 month time frame as His Wrath !! The first 5 Seals are telling us what the Anti-Christ 42 month reign of terror will bring, then the 6th Seal tells us God's Wrath is near and the 7th Seal ushers it all in, NOTHING can be read from the scroll until ALL 7 Seals are opened.

The Wrath and the Greatest Ever Troubles cover the exact same 42 months. 

6 hours ago, The Light said:

No sir. The seals are opened at the beginning of the week. That is when the tribulation starts. The tribulation is over at the gathering of Matt 24 (Rev 6, Rev 14)

 

 

6 hours ago, The Light said:

No sir. The beast has 42 months AFTER the tribulation which is the 70th week. There is war in heaven and the stars fall from heaven. From that point there is 42 months. The 70th week already over.

 

You need to go back to work on your TIMING brother. 

6 hours ago, The Light said:

No sir. The first seal is opened at the beginning of the week and the 6th seal is opened at the end of the week. There is war in heaven, the stars fall and then there is 42 months.

 

NO....They are all opened on day 1261, the Anti-Christ is the White Horse Conqueror and he rules 42 months. 

6 hours ago, The Light said:

No sir. The seven vials are just another view of the 7 trumps, just as Rev 14 (which occurs before the vials) is another view of the coming of Jesus in Rev 6, which is another view of the gathering and the coming of Jesus in Matt 24.

 

No its not, where do these ideas come from ? Wow, Come on brother....That DEEP END STUFF....

6 hours ago, The Light said:

I have not. That's interesting. There is also a full eclipse over Jerusalem in 2027.

 

Might want to look at It's Supernatural from last week.... the Asteroid is named after an old Egyptian false god !! They say its going to ease by out of one side of their mouth, and with the other side they say it could affect all of our Satellites, well if its that close, there is no way they can tell if its going to hit IMHO, and NOTICE Trump creates a Space Force last year. 

6 hours ago, The Light said:

No sir. I know that it what is commonly taught and yet there is still one stone upon another on the Temple mount. There is no talk of 70 AD, it is a wrong conclusion. The Temple will be rebuilt and then ALL THE STONES will be cast down.

Matt 24

² And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Suffice it to say I think you are in over your head on timing issues brother, its not your strong suit. Some people just can't put those things together, and I know you are strong in the faith, so I can't hold that against you too much. I kinda get frustrated when I see confusion, this is easy to me, it didn't use to be that way, so I should not get so frustrated in reality. 

You know, its like walking blindfolded in a maze, when you finally get to where you understand every inch of the maze like a blind person would, you kinda wonder why everyone else is so handicapped, but alas, you used to be that way yourself. So I digress.

6 hours ago, The Light said:

The 7th trump is the end.

Rev 10

⁷ But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The 7th Trump is Blown in Rev. 11 BUT just like we see the 2nd Woe in Rev. 9 but its spoken of as when the Two-witnesses die in Rev. 11, the DETAILS of the 2nd Woe are seen in Rev. 9, not Rev. 11, LIKEWISE the 7th Trump is the 3rd Woe, we know that from Rev. 8:13 where it says SPECIFICALLY the Last three Trumps will be the last three Woes !! So the 7th Trump is the  3rd Woe which is the 7 Vials.In other words we are told of it SOUNDING in Rev. 11, but we get the DETAILS in Rev. 16. 

6 hours ago, The Light said:

The 7th trump is the end.

Rev 10

⁷ But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Lets just say, you are not in the NEVER NEVER category of Seals being opened 2000 years ago. There are THREE Harvests, as In explained above. You timing on all things is what is discombobulated. There is no 144,000 per se, that is a Metaphor for ALL Israel who Repent {1/3} this 2 to 3 million Jews who Flee Judea. There are Three Harvests in Rev. 14. The Wheat the Tares and there Church are all Harvested.

6 hours ago, The Light said:

Thank you for your commentary. I enjoyed reading it and used to believe the things you say, until I understood that the coming of Jesus in Matt 24 is not Rev 19. It is Revelation 6 and Rev 14. It is the gathering when Jesus sends his angels and stays in the clouds. It is not when returns with his armies to set up his kingdom.

 

Its the SAME EVENT.....Matt. 24:36-51 is the Rapture.

6 hours ago, The Light said:

On 3/16/2020 at 1:57 AM, Revelation Man said:

Thank you kindly brother. I hope you can make sense of the things I have said. The wrath of God and the 42 months is after the 70th week tribulation period. No believers are appointed to wrath.

 

No, it can't be, Israel has to REPENT before the 70th week can come to pass.

 

God Bless.

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I am pretty sure that King Herod killing all those 2 and under happened On Earth, the wonder appeared IN HEAVEN.

 

Daniel 2:31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.

Daniel 2:32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,

Daniel 2:33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

Daniel 2:34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

Daniel 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

I believe we are saying the same thing (except the first is an example of the system Satan set up before the katabole and is the reason he will quickly get rid of 3 of them so that it will be like  the previous one he had).  

I think we disagree.  We will see.  

 

 

I am pretty sure that King Herod killing all those 2 and under happened On Earth, the wonder appeared IN HEAVEN.

Yes, I agree, Herod killed the children on earth. But when forming doctrines or beliefs, the first point is to discover the Author's intent in the entire passage. Chapter 12 was Jesus introducing John to the Dragon, and in particular, what the Dragon would be doing during the last half of the 70th week (The Dragon is mentioned I think 32 times!) in this vision  He was showing John.  HE CHOSE to show John how the Dragon had tried to kill Him as a child. 

Did you notice that in the vision Jesus was showing John the constellation Virgo (the Virgin) and Draco (the Dragon)? God put the constellations in the sky to tell the gospel story. 

The 7 heads and ten horns are seen in different forms on the Dragon in chapter 12, representing Satan, then on the Beast of chapter 12, and finally the Beast in chapter 17. They have the same meaning: Seven empires created by Satan to destroy Israel and make God out to be a liar. Only todate 6 have come and gone. Keep in mind, the 6th, Rome was never really defeated as each of the previous was. Rome just sort of faded away. But in the end, as the image portrays, Rome had two legs: one in Europe and one in the Middle East. Without much doubt, when the man of sin turned Beast takes out three kings and nations, it will be Middle East nations.

and is the reason he will quickly get rid of 3 of them so that it will be like  the previous one he had).  

I disagree here. Where Daniel tells us He will overcome three of ten, leaving 7 - I think this will be accomplished right after the midpoint of the future 70th week. He will do this very quickly so that the world will wonder,  who could ever go to war with him? Why? Because, before he is revealed, no one will know he is the Beast.