When hymn/chorus lyrics are wrong...

[NotAllThere]

As the deer panteth for the water
So my soul longeth after Thee
You alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship Thee

Right. First of all the original was in normal English and works fine.

As the deer pants for the water
So my soul longs after You
You alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship You

But my main bone of contention here is the grammar. Thee/thou/thy/thine are ALL first person singular. This used to be used in English as an expression of intimacy. "You" was used as formal address. This exists in German, with "du" being for family/friends, and "Sie" being for your boss or strangers. Also French, with "tu" and "vous". In both those languages, songs to God are always in the informal "tu" / "du" form. In my native Yorkshire, we could admonish strangers who addressed us as "thee", with

"Don't thee thou me, thee thou thyself and see how thee likes it".

Yet, the first version of this lovely song (which arose after the second version I've listed) mixes the informal and the formal. Grammatically it's nonsense. 

I've been wanting to get this off my chest for years. Thank-you for listening. I'm going to have a lie down now.

 

 

 

 

[johnthebaptist]

46 minutes ago, NotAllThere said:

As the deer panteth for the water
So my soul longeth after Thee
You alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship Thee

Right. First of all the original was in normal English and works fine.

As the deer pants for the water
So my soul longs after You
You alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship You

But my main bone of contention here is the grammar. Thee/thou/thy/thine are ALL first person singular. This used to be used in English as an expression of intimacy. "You" was used as formal address. This exists in German, with "du" being for family/friends, and "Sie" being for your boss or strangers. Also French, with "tu" and "vous". In both those languages, songs to God are always in the informal "tu" / "du" form. In my native Yorkshire, we could admonish strangers who addressed us as "thee", with

"Don't thee thou me, thee thou thyself and see how thee likes it".

Yet, the first version of this lovely song (which arose after the second version I've listed) mixes the informal and the formal. Grammatically it's nonsense. 

I've been wanting to get this off my chest for years. Thank-you for listening. I'm going to have a lie down now.

 

 

 

 

Timing-wise, "panteth" fits better than "pants," or maybe I should say, "'Panteth' fittith better than 'pants.'"

[BeauJangles]

When hymn/chorus lyrics are wrong...

51 minutes ago, NotAllThere said:

As the deer panteth for the water
So my soul longeth after Thee
You alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship Thee

Right. First of all the original was in normal English and works fine.

As the deer pants for the water
So my soul longs after You
You alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship You

But my main bone of contention here is the grammar. 

It would be a tremendous benefit to you to simply get over the issue of erroneous grammar concerning hymns. They were written and composed by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. These authors were very intelligent by the obvious construction of stanzas, verses and choruses. Countless wrote hundreds during the course of their lives.

They shouldn't be needlessly critiqued for incorrect usage of the English language, and there were quite a substantial amount translated from other languages in their original manuscripts. Perhaps if you were a musician as I am, you wouldn't judge them so harshly. They ought to be appreciated for what they are. And that is sacred.  

[BeauJangles]

2 hours ago, NotAllThere said:

I've been wanting to get this off my chest for years. Thank-you for listening. I'm going to have a lie down now.

I hope you'll be feeling better soon. 

[Sower]

6 hours ago, NotAllThere said:

But my main bone of contention here is the grammar.

I have never really considered the grammar in Psalms.
Some thoughts/words should remain unchanged (I think).
Guess I was blindly blessed flunking english: )
Plus the fact of it's hundred's of years of history.
I was more caught up with the word pictures, what they inspired.

Beautiful, not unlike poetry.
cool..........

[NotAllThere]

8 hours ago, BeauJangles said:

When hymn/chorus lyrics are wrong...

It would be a tremendous benefit to you to simply get over the issue of erroneous grammar concerning hymns. They were written and composed by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. These authors were very intelligent by the obvious construction of stanzas, verses and choruses. Countless wrote hundreds during the course of their lives.

They shouldn't be needlessly critiqued for incorrect usage of the English language, and there were quite a substantial amount translated from other languages in their original manuscripts. Perhaps if you were a musician as I am, you wouldn't judge them so harshly. They ought to be appreciated for what they are. And that is sacred.  

Thank you for your concern. I'd respectfully point out that you know nothing about me or my musicianship. I'd also respectfully like to say that I think perhaps you read the title, but not the content. This song is modern, was originally written in English, in 1985 by Robert Newey, without thee or -eth, and so hasn't been translated.  

To give a better idea, cast the song into the third person.

As the deer pants for the water
So my soul longs after he
They alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship he

A correct rendering in Early Modern English would be:

As the deer panteth for the water
So my soul longeth after Thou
Thou alone art my heart's desire
And I long to worship Thou

The person who decided to change it from the original Modern English could, perhaps, be considered to be not really respecting the original author. 

2 hours ago, Sower said:

I have never really considered the grammar in Psalms.
Some thoughts/words should remain unchanged (I think).
Guess I was blindly blessed flunking english: )
Plus the fact of it's hundred's of years of history.
I was more caught up with the word pictures, what they inspired.

Beautiful, not unlike poetry.
cool..........

This isn't a quote from Psalm 42, nor is it an old hymn, this is a modern song. It is important to consider the words we sing in church - some of the songs are plain heresy. Some wise soul once said that the quickest way to get heresy into the church is via a catchy tune. There's a natural winnowing over time - the less good hymns, and those with dodgy theology, just fall out of use. The classics remain. I'm very glad about that.

Edited March 1, 2020 by NotAllThere

[sweetycakes]

I'm dobbing you in to the cops

[NotAllThere]

Well, at least I've never seen "could of" instead of "could have" in song. That's another pet peeve! Otherwise, when it comes to grammar, I'm pretty liberal. 

[ladypeartree]

I think we may get along very well unless you start trying to be last then you will be banished to Ilk moor  ba' tat   ( blame my Welshness if I have got any of it incorrect or better yet blame sillycakes we all do ) 

[BeauJangles]

4 hours ago, NotAllThere said:

I'd respectfully point out that you know nothing about me or my musicianship.

That's true. You never mentioned being a musician. Now that's even more confusing why you hate the hymns so much. Okay. 

4 hours ago, NotAllThere said:

This song is modern, was originally written in English, in 1985 by Robert Newey, without thee or -eth, and so hasn't been translated.  

So, one song was written in the 80's. Most of them are quite a bit older as you know. You don't like KJV either, apparently.  

Edited March 1, 2020 by BeauJangles