The Chronological Order Of The Revelation

[not an echo]

On 10/17/2022 at 8:28 PM, Dennis1209 said:

The following view is interesting:  Here’s a thought thinking outside of the box: The Antichrist will think to change the times and laws [Dan. 7:25]. Buying, selling, producing, and controlling it [Commercial Babylon] is a major theme of Antichrist’s reign. During this period, 1/3 of how we observe, measure, and adapt to time will be turned on its head. One-third of visibility and daylight will be lost probably due to long-term atmospheric conditions of ash, dirt, and debris. Possibly caused by nuclear exchanges, comets, asteroids, and volcanic activity. It seems logical that the clock and how we measure a day will have to be adjusted to compensate for and coordinate all activities related to “time.” The earth will still rotate once every 24 hours, but one-third of daylight and the cycle will be lost. Sleep cycles and commerce will be in disarray; I’ll be there 1st thing in the morning [used to be 6:00 a.m., and it’s now 9:00 a.m.]. Will the Antichrist attempt to adjust and shorten the 24-hour measured day to compensate for the loss of 1/3 of a day? Thereby shortening the days of the Tribulation?

One other thing Dennis...Speaking of "thinking outside of the box" , your focus on the "1/3" and what we see in Revelation 8 made my mind go immediately to the first thread I ever worked up on the forum.  Till this day, I have never found anything in writing or the web world that suggests what I there show, not to mention its merits.  Perhaps I am wrong, but it cannot be denied that it is supported by Scripture---and in a very interesting way.  The thread I am speaking of is The First Four Trumpets (https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/249206-the-first-four-trumpets/).

[not an echo]

On 10/19/2022 at 2:42 PM, Jedi4Yahweh said:

Scriptures specially says those standing around the throne that no man could number, where those who came out of the Great Tribulation and were from all nations, kindreds and tongues (Gentiles).  You can not come out of something that you were never in.  It does not say that they came out before the Great Tribulation but says they came out of the Great Tribulation, meaning they were in the Great Tribulation. 

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; ... And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. - Rev 7:9, 13-14 KJV

Hello again Jedi4Yahweh,

Just wanted to make you (and all) aware of a thread I have that speaks directly to your above comments.  The thread I am speaking of is The "Great Multitude" and "Great Tribulation" of Revelation 7:9-17 (https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/279426-the-great-multitude-and-great-tribulation-of-revelation-79-17/).  Of course, my position on this is also an important element in the chronology of The Revelation that I put forth in this thread.

[Dennis1209]

10 hours ago, not an echo said:

One other thing Dennis...Speaking of "thinking outside of the box" , your focus on the "1/3" and what we see in Revelation 8 made my mind go immediately to the first thread I ever worked up on the forum.  Till this day, I have never found anything in writing or the web world that suggests what I there show, not to mention its merits.  Perhaps I am wrong, but it cannot be denied that it is supported by Scripture---and in a very interesting way.  The thread I am speaking of is The First Four Trumpets (https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/249206-the-first-four-trumpets/).

Good morning not an echo,

There seem to be more interpretations of the book of Revelation than any other book of the Bible. For those paying attention and "watching," we are the generation witnessing all these things shape up and come about more clearly with each passing day. No previous generation had a clue of how these things could come about. Israel became a nation once again in one day on May 14, 1948, to cite just one of the dozens of examples.

Based on scripture and conjecture, the following is only speculation on how these things could play out.

In previous posts, I've written my thoughts on 1/3 of all the trees and green grass being burnt up. Is this isolated to the area the Bible has now shifted to (Israel-middle east) or is it globally? I prefer the latter. The reason is, looking at the middle east from satellite, there's not that much grass or trees in the arid and desert environment surrounding Israel. Also, an event like this sounds like geographical extinction; everything above ground would perish. This event doesn't appear as if it impacts that side of the globe, with the uninterrupted continuation of activities recorded afterward.

America's side of our hemisphere contains about 1/3 of the global landmass. If we are at the tail end of the last days, I suspect we are. That could answer the question, "where is America in biblical prophecy?"

America is the leading exporter of pornography; we have sodomite protection and hate laws, light the White House up in gay rainbow colors, and open up a session of Congress with a prayer to Brahma, closing it with Amen and Awoman to name a few.

What restraint is left when the harpazo occurs? How were the five cities judged? Fire and brimstone rained on them, with the undrinkable waters of Dead Sea formed.

“If God does not judge America soon, He owes an apology to Sodom and Gomorrah.” ~ credited to Ruth Graham (wife of Billy Graham).

Several things may cause an event like this, volcanic activity, a CME or solar flare, or an asteroid, to name a few. My chips are on an asteroid impacting this side of the hemisphere.

Luke 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

Most asteroids are not one large space rock, preceded and followed by many other smaller objects and would spread impact areas. The heat would be tremendous and ignite everything around above ground. What percentage of water does the "Great Lakes" hold?

We are hearing very little about an asteroid named Apophis currently. A few years from now, in 2025, I suspect we will hear more and more about it.

Luke 21:26 above, I could paraphrase it this way: Everyone is in chaos, stress, and panic because they have advanced warning of something from the second heaven headed toward earth.

I believe this generation will see all these things pass. Combining Matthew 24:32-34 and Psalm 90:10 may give us insight into our generation.

[not an echo]

On 10/29/2022 at 10:23 PM, Uriah said:

On 10/29/2022 at 5:04 PM, not an echo said:

what about the differences

Please be specific.

Hello Uriah,

Well, I finally got caught back up to you.

For clarification, the part of our discussion that you show above stemmed from the parallels you were making between the numerically alike trumpets and vials.  For example, you pointed out the following parallels with the 6th Vial and the 6th Trumpet...

On 10/28/2022 at 6:12 PM, Uriah said:

Rev 16:12- And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

Rev 9:14- Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

Then, I pointed out the following, in part...

On 10/29/2022 at 5:04 PM, not an echo said:

I see that you have focused on some similarities, but what about the differences...

When I began to look at what you have shown, I got stuck on your first parallel.  For example, how do you fit the Battle of Armageddon and the attending circumstances that we see in connection with the 6th Vial (Rev. 16:14, 16) with the battle that we see in connection with the 6th Trumpet, and the attending circumstances that we see there (Rev. 9:15-19)?  When we are trying to fit the pieces of the last days' prophetic puzzle together, it is not enough that one side of a piece may seem to fit with one side of another piece.  All the pieces must come together and interlock.

You then asked me to "Please be specific."  Something that sticks out immediately (to me) is the extent of how many are slain in the respective battles.  For example, it is evident that the 6th Vial concerns the Battle of Armageddon (Rev. 16:14, 16).  And, of that battle, we read the following in Revelation 19...

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of Him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of His mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Comparing this with the battle spoken of in connection with the 6th Trumpet, we see this, from Revelation 9...

17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

How would you reconcile the difference between "the remnant" of the one battle and "the third part" of the other?  Another specific would be the cause of the deaths?  Consider again from Revelation 9...

17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of THEIR mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

18 By THESE THREE was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of THEIR mouths.

But, of the Battle of Armageddon, this is how John's account reads, from Revelation 19...

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of Him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of HIS mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Whatever may be made of these accounts, there is not a true and consistent apple to apple comparison between them.  If these two accounts were of world wars that involved the United States, it would take more than a mere mention of "world" and "the United States" elements of it for us to conclude that both references were of the same war, because there was a World War I and there was a World War II.  And, only the latter involved nuclear bombs.

On 10/29/2022 at 10:23 PM, Uriah said:

On 10/29/2022 at 5:04 PM, not an echo said:

how do you fit the Battle of Armageddon and the attending circumstances that we see in connection with the 6th Vial (Rev. 16:14, 16) with the battle that we see in connection with the 6th Trumpet, and the attending circumstances that we see there (Rev. 9:15-19)?

Like so many others, I see these as two descriptions showing different aspects of the same event with details that make the picture that God wanted shown.

Again, my mind goes to what we should expect to find if we compare apples with apples.  In the accounts of our discussion, we find what could be likened to color, texture, flavor, smell, and other things of importance than need to be considered.  And, when considered, the differences are such that we do not have sameness.  Rather, what we have is like apples and oranges---or two different battles.

On 10/29/2022 at 10:23 PM, Uriah said:

On 10/29/2022 at 5:04 PM, not an echo said:

By what you have said before, my understanding of your position is that the seals are also included in your trumpet/vial parallels.  How do you fit these in? 

I left the seals out of this. As you can see they are not written he in the same way. They seem to be a more general overview of the overall event, with the exception of the sixth seal. It shows a unmistakable vision of things pertaining to the very end.

So, the difference between how I see these things and many others, maybe you too, is that I no longer read it in a strict linear manner necessarily. By just letting it say what it says, it can be seen as many visions that move on the time-line as God wishes, not always in the order we expect. And the narrative even changes to give details from the past. God's perspective is timeless.

Concerning your second paragraph, I can agree with what you are saying, and I feel similarly.  But, there is a "linear manner" in which The Revelation is given, and the first 10 chapters are given in a "strict linear manner".  It is not even within the realm of possibility for the chronology of the first 10 chapters to be presented in a more linear fashion.  And, as I point out in my opening post of this thread, such is similar in the next 10 chapters, other than the repeating of some information along the way (without fail), which makes for some overlaps of information---as could be expected.  The Revelation has structure, and such that it bespeaks Divinity.  And, this goes well beyond what I am in this post pointing out.  For example, from a first century perspective (when The Revelation was given), the first 10 chapters proceeded from what was, to what would take place, up until the time that the world's stage is reset or prepared for the fulfilling of Daniel's 70th Week.  Unsurprisingly, the next 10 chapters wholly concern Daniel's 70th Week and what the ultimate fulfilling of it pointed to in the first place (Dan. 9:24/Rev. 20).  Finally, the last two chapters represent a whole---still chronological---and of that Happily Ever After part that the future holds for God and all of His saved.

I hope you will continue to look at what I am showing.  I know it is not what you are used to seeing, but when you see it, you will find that the pieces of the last days' prophetic puzzle come together much more naturally than with what has been presented in connection with the other common views---and in a very interesting way.

[not an echo]

Hello all,

I just finished going through this thread in an effort to reset my illustrations that were no longer showing.  I was most concerned about those in my opening post, as these illustrate the cleanness and simplicity of a basic position I have come to concerning the chronology of The Revelation.  After many efforts, I was still unable to reset/edit my page 8, post 3 reply, but when I click on the area where my illustration is supposed to be, it will show.

Edited January 28, 2023 by not an echo

[truth7t7]

On 3/7/2020 at 12:02 PM, not an echo said:

Hello all,

I believe we can all agree that a very important consideration in the study of any end time view is the question of the order in which The Revelation was given to John.  I have long been inclined to believe that it was given in true chronological order.

For example, it is quite evident that the first 10 chapters are in the strictest chronological order possible.  One thing leads into another thing, which leads into another thing, and so forth throughout the first 10 chapters---without fail.  No back and forth, no overlap, no repeating of anything, just chronological information laid out as simply as 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10.  Basically, there is the introduction, followed by the letters to the seven churches, followed by a vision of God and the Lamb, followed by the opening of the seals of the Seven Sealed Book, followed by the sounding of the first six (of seven) trumpets, followed by John's account of an angel that he saw, who had in his hand "a little book open."  Following is an illustration of how straightforward the first 10 chapters are laid out:

After chapter 10, there is a difference in the manner in which John records things.  This difference is closely related to what he writes concerning the 7th Trumpet in Revelation 11:15-19, for what he here records is like a concise overview of what will be taking place throughout the next several chapters.  More precisely, the 7th Trumpet heralds a period that takes in everything John sees from the time of its sounding in chapter 11 until after the Last Judgment in chapter 20.  In accord with the way the Bible's chapters are divided (which I attribute to the hand of God!), it appears that after John is given the brief overview of this period, he uses an overlapping method of recording all of the details of it---again, without fail.  While the order of this section is still chronological, portions of some events are revealed from different angles along the way, making for some overlaps of information, as could be expected.  Because of this, it is not quite as simple to follow the order of this section, but there is a definite pattern and progression of events.  A survey of the details given in each chapter covering the 7th Trumpet period will show that, aside from the mentioned overlaps of some information, the events recorded in this half of The Revelation are also in strict chronological order---just like with the first half.  Following is an illustration of the overlapping method in which chapters 11 through 20 are laid out:

Finally, the last two chapters of The Revelation also continue chronologically, but as a whole, and reveal John's vision of God's Heaven and the conclusion of The Revelation, as well as The Bible.

Simplified further, that's 10 chapters with no overlapping pattern, 10 chapters with an overlapping pattern, and 2 chapters as a unit.

Simplified further, and very memorable, that's 10, 10, and 2.

The Revelation has a most awesome structure.  And for me, once seen, it can't be unseen.

The Revelation is seen in "Parallel" teachings of same events, as the 7th Vial Rev 16:17 and 7th Trump Rev 11:15 represent (The End) in "Parallel" teachings of the same event

[abcdef]

9 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

The Revelation is seen in "Parallel" teachings of same events, as the 7th Vial Rev 16:17 and 7th Trump Rev 11:15 represent (The End) in "Parallel" teachings of the same event

7t7,

I agree with you that the 7th trumpet and the 7th vial are the same events that show the end.

What other events in the Rev, also show the same events as the 7th trumpet and the 7th vial?

 

[truth7t7]

12 minutes ago, abcdef said:

7t7,

I agree with you that the 7th trumpet and the 7th vial are the same events that show the end.

What other events in the Rev, also show the same events as the 7th trumpet and the 7th vial?

 

We agree that Revelation 11:15 the 7th Trump and Revelation 16:17 the 7th vial is (The End)

Do you believe Revelation 20:9-15 below is (The End)?

Revelation 20:9-15KJV

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[truth7t7]

19 minutes ago, abcdef said:

7t7,

I agree with you that the 7th trumpet and the 7th vial are the same events that show the end.

What other events in the Rev, also show the same events as the 7th trumpet and the 7th vial?

 

Do you believe in a future 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth, at the return of Jesus Christ?

[abcdef]

4 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

We agree that Revelation 11:15 the 7th Trump and Revelation 16:17 the 7th vial is (The End)

Do you believe Revelation 20:9-15 below is (The End)?

Revelation 20:9-15KJV

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Yes, Rev 20:9-15 is parallel to the 7th trumpet and the 7th vial.