God delivers people from hell

[Your closest friendnt]

Matthew 5:13-16 New International Version (NIV)

Salt and Light

¹³ “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

¹⁴ “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. ¹⁵ Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. ¹⁶ In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

........God's love for the world, he make it possible that the salt and the light of the world, forever to salt and to light the world...the desire of our Heavenly Father and our Lord and savior is since he saved us without our doing anything...to be the salt and the light of the world...to carry the torch of his light to all the world, because he died for the sins of the whole world...the world which was, is and to come....

Is this not what we should mind, and continue to desire....

God has promised that his salt and his light will never depart from the earth...

[missmuffet]

10 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

In your post we have two questions: 

1. What happens to a born again believers when they die? and question no:

2. What happens to born again believers when the rapture of the Church occurs? 

How can we approach these two questions...searching for the answers...

Old Testament?

The NT will give you those answers. 

[Your closest friendnt]

3 hours ago, missmuffet said:

The NT will give you those answers. 

Do you know where?

[JohnD]

On 3/30/2020 at 1:28 AM, Your closest friendnt said:

I search for scriptures to agree with your statement bellow...and I could not fine any...are you sure you are not mistaken?..

Quote from the OP.

"I only wanted people to see that the scriptures teach that God is not out to punish us but to deliver us from a hell we are already destined for". 

 

Openeth thine eyes, in the scripture I even spelled out in the post. John 3:17 and verse 18.

Hell / judgment is a done deal.

God sent his Son into the world NOT to condemn the world.

Please consider carefully what is right before your eyes.

[JohnD]

On 3/30/2020 at 2:56 AM, Your closest friendnt said:

This is not complete message...if someone on the sound of the last trumpet for him, the last trumpet to announce his departure from the earth is found with faith in Jesus Christ, then he is found in the Life of Jesus Christ...

And if someone at the time of the sound of the last trumpet for him at the time of his death is found with the denial...the refusal to believe in something he understands, to believe in Jesus Christ, is found to be in death....

If the refusal to believe in Jesus Christ is death...how about the one who has not refuse to believe....is he in the Life? even thought he never was given the opportunity to believe....

 

The statements in John 3:16-18, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Ephesians 2:8-10, John 16:27, Deuteronomy 18:15, are clear cut. 

Attempts to complicate them only end up in unbelief.

Unbelief is eternal doom.

[JohnD]

20 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Are you quoting old Testament? 

Clearly you are here to antagonize

 

[JohnD]

7 hours ago, missmuffet said:

The NT will give you those answers. 

There are prophetic hints / clues in the Old Testament about our condition in death:

Ecclesiastes 12:6–7 (AV)
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Malachi 4:3 (AV)
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

The human bodies of the condemned will not last forever and ever in eternal fire. Their spirits will.

They will return to the LORD (to judge). At this time, the general resurrection will take place (Revelation 20) so that every knee will bow and every tongue 

confess that Jesus Christ is YHVH to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2.  Then the condemned will be cast into the Lake of Fire where their flesh will be

destroyed but their spirits will continue to exist forever and ever. 

Isaiah 66:24 (AV)
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Mark 9:44–48 (AV)
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Lest any doubt what the symbolic meaning of worm is:

Psalm 22 (AV)
To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.
1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother’s breasts.
10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother’s belly.
11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
21 Save me from the lion’s mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
28 For the kingdom is the LORD’S: and he is the governor among the nations.
29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

For the righteous (those who believe in Jesus) we shall all be changed (1 Corinthians 15) / re-infused with our departed spirits (1 Thessalonians 4) into the new spirit-bodies

And we will be in that form forever (1 John 3:2)

Job 19:25–27 (AV)
25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

[kwikphilly]

On 3/30/2020 at 1:51 AM, JohnD said:

perhaps the greatest pandemic of their lives,

Blessings John

   Agreed,perhaps some have missed what you said here..."their l lives"-yes,their lives! Of course there will be bigger,more deadly,more catastrophic but many people(like me for example)have not experienced  the Great Depression or smallpox,black plague or swine flu,waiting on bread lines.I've not personally faced anything that some people have lived with for all of their life & is common place in their country(village,town,etc,,,),like starvation,dying of thirst and much more

   These things too,are not from God,it is a decaying dying world we live in,even our own bodies are corruptible... God Did not cause any of that & yet He Loves us so so very much that He Provides us with Deliverance,Salvation and Gives us the Choice to accept His Gift or not.....I imagine God sees all that happens and Says,"Come,come & let me Heal you,replace your sorrow with gladness,give you Peace where their is despair,let me LOVE you right back into my Arms"I have no doubt He  hates to see anyone suffer ,let alone the heart breaking choice they make to reject Jesus......to choose hell instead

                                                                                           With love-in Christ,Kwik

[Your closest friendnt]

JohnD, in his post on 3/30/2020 at 1:51 AM..

 "I only wanted people to see that the scriptures teach that God is not out to punish us but to deliver us from a hell we are already destined for".  

JohnD, is saying that the default destination for everyone in the world is Hell...

JohnD, is saying that death and Hades reins by default  upon everyone who is born in our present time. 

JohnD, is saying that the rein of Death and Hades is not judge by Jesus Christ with his death on the Cross in full obedience to God and his subsequent RESURRECTION...

Having in mind a number of scriptures from the Old Testament...and the Gospels...and the words of Jesus before and after the resurrection...and the letters of Jesus apostles.

Motivated from the words of Jesus Christ: "love one another as you love me"

I decided to be involved in this discussion and put forwards the scriptures and see what truth is reveal in the inspired scriptures... Saying inspired scriptures we emphasize in the credibility and the reliability of the said scriptures to be under scrutiny..  

I have scriptures that proves the statement in question wrong: 

 "I only wanted people to see that the scriptures teach that God is not out to punish us but to deliver us from a hell we are already destined for".  

I asked for solid scriptures that proves the statement in question correct...so far I have not been provided with any....those scriptures must and should include that everyone who is born in this word even from the time of Abraham is dead to God....

JohnD's position that by default everyone born in the world belongs to Death and the Devil and is Hell bound that his name by default in written in the book of Death and Hades...is dead wrong....

The title: 

God delivers people from hell...

is incorrect, according to the Gospel it's impossible to Happened...Jesus says so...Rev: 1:18...

 

Revelation 1:18 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁸ I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of ^[a]Hades and of Death.

 

Revelation 1:18 King James Version (KJV)

¹⁸ I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.  

How do you comprehend this scripture to say.....

Another relevant question: 

Does the Devil welcomes the children of the Believers of Jesus Christ when they are born? 

 

[JohnD]

The Bible does say God created evil (Isaiah 45:7).

However, given the nature of God, it is rather God taking responsibility

for how his perfect creation was adulterated by the sins of angels and man.

Evil is the result of not doing things God's way...

For example: a flat head screwdriver can be used as a chisel, but not without damage to the tool and the

work.  Evil is the damage that comes from using a screwdriver to do a chisels job.  Or a chisel on a screw.

A water hose fits the opening of a gas tank, but only evil results to the engine by so doing. 

God was never "out to get" humanity with the Law or Old Testament.

If he was, he would not have given us the Law at all. Only judgment.

Even the giving of the Law is a gracious act.

Few understand this about God, it seems.

...especially those who try to weaponize the scriptures.

John 8 (AV)
1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

This woman may have been guilty of fornication OR of simply violating the Hillel school on the subject of (almost exclusively female) adultery. Using Leviticus 18:8 and Isaiah 47:1-3, the rabbi formulated the tradition that any female who exposed any of these things before men who were not their husband (even if by accident) was guilty of adultery. 

The woman in John 8 may have merely tried to be fashionable or defiant with head coverings or revealing hemlines. Yet I have heard pastors rail on and on about the guilty male being absent from the equation. If it was a fornication act, the male should have been on trial as well. Just not until the next day (for either).  According to John 5:9 it was the sabbath day. Trials were not to be conducted on the sabbath.  The scribes and Pharisees were trying to trap Jesus in several ways.

1. Render a judgment (which the Messiah Jesus claimed to be cannot do according to Isaiah 42:3)

2. To not render a judgment would appear to violate the Law against adultery (Exodus 20:14 / Deuteronomy 27:26)

Jesus, however, hung them up on the horns of a dilemma:

when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

It was the sabbath, you see. By picking up the stone on the sabbath, they would commit sin and could not carry out the sentence. The woman was in no danger.

And I personally believe Jesus wrote in the sand "remember the sabbath to keep it holy."

If the woman was at the mercy of just how righteous the scribes and Pharisees considered themselves to be... she would have died moments after Jesus said this. 

Look at Paul's pedigree:

Philippians 3:4–6 (AV)
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Those old buzzards did not realize that we are all sinners and walk away as they realized it... no. They believed they were righteous (self righteous) enough.

Rather, Jesus outsmarted those who tried to outsmart him with the Law. And they had to turn and leave with the humiliation that they might just not [be]

sinless to all who saw the whole thing.

GRACE!

Jesus was giving grace to the woman who sinned.

He turned to her and could have carried out the sentence himself with not only his righteousness, but his trans-law office (as a human with the innocence Adam had before the fall whose only forbidden commandment was to not eat the one fruit)... making Jesus the LORD of the sabbath / and of the Law itself. Jesus kept the Law. He was under no obligation to do so. But he kept it just the same. And he gave the woman who sinned even more grace than delivering her from the mob.  

Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

This is the heart of God!

He will allow people to go to hell as it was (or would be) their choice. ← Remember, God is omniscient.

I set before you life and death... choose life!

God is love.

Love can be tough.

1 Corinthians 5:5 (AV)
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh...

but the end is what love strives for:

...that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

We in the Church have had a lot of difficulty understanding this (especially from the over saturation of the humanist / traditionalist 

teachings of man) and sadly subscribe in lesser degrees to that which fueled the misguided souls who carried signs around stating

"God hates fags!"

God help us!

God so loved [THE WORLD] that he gave his only begotten Son...

You can never ever ever hate anyone into the kingdom!!!

Only love.