The First Seal and the Horseman on the White Horse

[Charlie744]

On 4/12/2020 at 11:46 AM, Revelation Man said:

 

You, like many people,  follow MEN'S TRADITIONS, it speaks for itself. I am sure the Pharisees shook their heads also. Tunnel vision is a bad, bad thing, especially to those trying to teach Eschatology, the truth is most who try to teach it were not called to Eschatology, but try to force it. A hand need to be a hand, not a foot. I wen t 25 years sticking with the things I learned in Eschatology from men, until God spoke to me when I asked Him a question, why is the Church so mixed up on what Babylon is, the Rapture, the Harlot is, the Woman of Rev. 12 is etc. And I got this, "Ron, you guys already know everything" And that is when it hit me, God can't tell us His truths because we BLOCK them via OUR TRUTHS passed down from men !! So keep on saying you don't follow men's traditions if you want to, some might even be YOUR OWN, but what you give here is not from God brother as per your Eschatology. I simply started ALL OVER, and asked God to show me His truths as per Eschatology. It works, just like it did with the Gospels. Now does God/Jesus choosing BABES as disciples register my point ? He wanted a BLANK CANVAS !! As per Eschatology, we come with a learning from MEN, who really NEVER KNEW.

 

The 7th Trump is the 3rd Woe, which is ALL 7 Vials, and thus it ends in Rev. 16:19, do you get that? It doesn't END in Rev. 11 or Rev. 14 per se, both of those are just Parenthetical Citation chapters that tell of OTHER THINGS {Two-Witnesses 1260 day TIMELINE & the Harvests of God} going on at the SAME TIME. 

 

Which ends in Rev. 16:19, because the 7th Trump is the 3rd Woe which is the 7 Vials. You don't seem to quite get that !!

Rev. 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

So, the 7th Trump = the 3rd Woe WHICH IS.......The 7 Vials of Rev. 16..........so it indeed ends with the 7th Trump, just after the 7th Vial is poured out.

If I have wrote this once I have written it 100 times, people don't read it seems. ONE MORE TRY.

Revelation 11 is NOT a part of the Chronological Order of the BoR. Rev. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18 and most of 19 are Parenthetical Citations of THINGS HAPPENING during the Judgment Chapters.  6, 7, 8, 9, 15&16, I now think 6 is a FORETELLING of what's coming and Rev. 7 is describing Israel as Fleeing Judea followed by describing the Raptured Church in Heaven. THEN comes the Judgment chapters.

Rev. 11 starts BEFORE the Day of the Lord because the Two-witnesses show up BEFORE the DOTL, if someone gave this to me and I never understood it, I would get it right off the bat. Its CLEAR why both the Two-witnesses and the Beast have 1260 day OFFICES on earth, so we can JUXTAPOSE their timelines against each other via God's majestic plannings. If the Two-witnesses die at the 2nd Woe {AND THEY DO} and the Beasts dies at the 7th Vial {AND HE DOES} then their timelines CAN NOT RUN LINEAR do you not get this? That means if the Two-witnesses DIE FIRST then they also have to SHOW UP FIRST, this is simple stuff once we finally see it, but it shouldn't be so difficult to digest {SAVE for Men' Traditions}. Malachi 4:5-6 says Elijah will be sent back BEFORE the Day of the Lord to turn Israel back unto God !! So Rev. 11 is all about the Two-witnesses TIMELINE, not the BoR timeline per se. Its NOT a part of the order of the BoR. They show up 75 days {1335} BEFORE the Beast {1260} and thus the Jews have already REPENTED b y the time the Beast Conquers Israel/Jerusalem, and 45 days before the AoD happens at the hands of the False Prophet {Jewish High Priest}. Rev. 11 IS NOT the end, because it not a part of the overall Chronological Order of the BoR to start with. Its like Gen. 1 and Gen. 2 but you can't seem to grasp that it is a PARENTHETICAL CITATION !! That is on you brother. That is why you can't grasp it, that is why Babylon is said to fall 3 or 4 times in the BoR, they are all the SAME EVENT !! 

I have explained Rev. 11 to you personally COUNTLESS TIMES so I guess you just skip it and reply, or else you wouldn't as the same question over and over. We see the 2nd Woe in Rev. 11 also right ? BUT the DETAILS for the 2nd Woe is given to us in Rev. 9 IS OT NOT !! YESSSSSSSS IT IS !! Likewise, you are told about the 3rd Woe {7th Trump} in Rev. 11 also, BUT not given the DETAILS !! We see the DETAILS in Rev. 16, the 7 Vials. That is the 3rd Woe, which is the 7th Trump. You are the one that can't grasp it brother, because you have other MAN MADE UNDERSTANDING'S {Even if they are FROM YOU}  you can't drop. 

 

The 144,000 {ALL Israel who REPENT or the 1/3 who REPENT} are never called First-fruits in Rev. 7, go find it, its not there, they are only called First-fruits in Rev. 14, AFTER Jesus lands on Mt. Zion, do you not get that ? And they have the Fathers name in their Forehead !! In verse 4 they are called First-fruits

Rev. 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

It has ZILCH to do with Rev. 6, which is just Jesus opening up the 6th Seal. The Harvest is Jesus on Mt. Zion !! Now go read Rev. 16:19 where Jesus lands on Mt. Zion and defeats the NATIONS called Babylon !! And NO, its not the Multitude seen in Rev. 7 in Heaven, that is the Raptured Church who are indeed Raptured Pre 70th week. Not AFTERWARDS, its the SAME CHURCH seen in Rev. chapters 4 and 5 BEFORE the Seals are opened. Matt. 24:29-31 is seen in Rev. 16:19 and in Rev. ch. 19. Its also Rev. 14:18-20 and Rev. the 7TH TRUMP, Except we are not given the coming DETAILS of the 3rd Woe EVENTS. 

You don't grasp what the word is saying as per the TIMING of Eschatology, some people are not called to this. Armageddon is indeed happening at the Second Coming. We see the Second Coming in Matt. 24:29-31, YOU DON'T but you are in error sir. 

 

Rev. 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

NOW............WHO IS RIGHT ? Jesus is seen on Mt Zion in the very FIRST VERSE !! EVERYTHING here is AFTER the Second Coming !!

Rev. 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Rev. 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts{Jerusalem/EARTHQUAKE/Mt. Zion}, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

So, Rev. 14 STARTS with Jesus on Mt. Zion, the same thing we see in Rev. 16:19 !! Then we see Rev. 14 ends with the WINE-PRESS of God's Wrath being filled with the WICKED GRAPES He gathered !! Same as Rev. 16:19 !! I know what I speak of brother, I am not just guessing. This is my job to know. I am called to this, I wouldn't dare be GUESSING and calling it of God !! The fact is YOU CAN'T SEE IT....Because you have tunnel vision. You can't open your eyes because like me for 25 years you KNOW IT ALREADY !! That HINDERS God !! God don't need us brother, nor our thoughts. We just have to YIELD !! 

Really.....listening gets us to where we need to be. TALKING over God's prompts gets us nowhere. 

 

The Wrath of God STARTS at the 1st Trump and ends at the 7th Vial which is the 3rd Woe. It runs from Rev. 8 where the 7th Seal is opened bringing forth the 7 Trumps to Rev. 16:19 where Jesus LANDS on Mt. Zion and defeats all the Wicked.

 

The Jews {Wheat} MUST STAY ON EARTH with the Wicked Tares until the VERY END !! Come on man !! Go read the Parable again !!

This is the church being Raptured {this is the HARVEST CHAPTER remember} in verses 14--16, THEN we see the WICKED TARES Raptured in verses 17-19. NOTICE: Jesus from upon a Cloud THRUSTS in the Sickle to Rapture the Church Saints but another Angel THRUSTS in the Sickle to Harvest the Wicked and thrust them into the Winepress of God's Wrath. So its true....YOU DON'T SEE IT !! 

Go look up what a SOLILOQUY MEANS.....That is what happens in verse 14-16, we see 7 Years BEFORE when Jesus Raptured the Church !! From a CLOUD !!

If you were being INTELLECTUALLY HONEST brother you would admit you know exactly what I am saying here, which I have stated before many times, that I used to do LIKEWISE on Eschatology for 25 years {until 5 or 6 years ago}. So, I get all my Eschatology answers now from God, not men, which is the mistake you are still making, OR maybe you just weren't called this this line of work to start with. You can't EXCEPT what the word says if you are not willing to unravel the RIDDLE God has laid out there ON PURPOSE, to confuse the World. You can BELIEVE all you want, its the lack of understanding that makes us perish according to God's Word. 

Because that is an UNTRUTH. 

Because all time on earth without Jesus is Tribulation, Jesus said so, then we get the GREATEST EVER TROUBLES for 3.5 years while Israel are in the Petra and Bozrah area.......NOW, a question for you. Lets say you had a family of Aunts/Uncles/Cousins/Sister sand brothers consisting of 100 people, and there was GREAT TROUBLE coming down from som Evil Entity, and only 1/3 of your Family make it to a SAFE AREA !! You do understand that means 2/3 of those Famuily members will be a GREAT DANGER right ? Just because you are protected, your heart would be BREAKING for those family members. Just because 1/3 of the Jews REPENT and are thus PROTECTED doesn't mean there will not be GREAT SADNESS for Israel, after all, the 2/3 who will DIE are also Jews !! 

Also, living in a Rock Enclosure for 3.5 years for Modern day people will not be something they are used to, no doubt. So I can see why you CAN'T SEE, it because you try to fit all the answers to your predisposed opinions. 

God Bless brother. 

As I have said too many times I am sure, I have not yet studied Revelation but I certainly am looking forward to hearing and learning these interpretations! I certainly expect it will be 100 X's more complicated than Daniel..... so many of you folks have indeed put the work and time into Revelation! Charlie

[OneLight]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

As I have said too many times I am sure, I have not yet studied Revelation but I certainly am looking forward to hearing and learning these interpretations! I certainly expect it will be 100 X's more complicated than Daniel..... so many of you folks have indeed put the work and time into Revelation! Charlie

Revelation 1:1-3

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must [a]shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw.  Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

Read it, you'll be surprised.

[Brother Duke]

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

Look at the spread of false christs and the those who falsely come in His name in, just in the US. There are dozens of fakers all getting rich spreading lies and false teaching. And it's getting worse. I don't even see this as the full brunt of this catastrophe;  "For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many."

I looked it up once. The people who have claimed to be Christ in the flesh. There was  lot of them going way back. That's just what we have records for. No telling if there were more or not. But we can see from scripture the false doctrines, and no doubt the parallels of false christs, were occurring in the 1st century.

I very much doubt the prophecy came to pass in Paul's time since every other event and condition associated with "For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many." did not come to pass yet. 

 

Hi Diaste an alternate interpretation of this verse.

Matt 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many

Mark 13:5 And Jesus, answering them, began to say: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 6 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and will deceive many.

 

These Verses could be about a false Christs like David Koresh or it could also be a formal church like the RCC or other churches claiming that they come in the name of Christ and that Jesus is the Messiah and then use this knowledge to deceive the many and steer them away from the truth that Christ spoke.

[Revelation Man]

12 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

RM, I just stumbled on this topic and will continue to read on.... but your comment was quick to catch my eye where you asy, "its all centered on the 1260". Without taking this over and redirecting this to a Daniel discussion, would you please tell me:

1) there is a 1260 in Daniel.... is this the same time period as mentioned in Revelation. I have NOT studied Revelation and wanted to know if the mention of this time in Daniel refers to Revelation or it has its own meaning within Daniel?

Thanks so much, Charlie

 

Yes, this is why almost all Prophesy has to be read togther to understand it, and by that I mean you have to read the BEFORE and the AFTER then you can see it more clearly. You can't really read Daniel and try to UNDRSTAND it else you are wasting your time, you will be like Daniel who told God I understand not, those Prophesies in Daniel have in many cases come to pass, and by reading Jesus in Matt. 24, or John in the book of Revelation, we can see how they all fit together. 

The 1260 is nothing more than this, it is when God's Wrath on Mankind starts, and it is 1260 days BEFORE the Second Coming of  Jesus Christ ends all the WONDERS Daniel was being shown. Thus the 1290 is LIKEWISE an EVENT that ends in 1290 days after all these wonders end (Second Coming) and the 1335 is an EVENT that ends in 1335 days, after all these wonders end (Second Coming).

See how the SECOND COMING is really the focal point and THE EVENTS are all at the other end of the timeline? God reverses the timeline and gives us EVENTS that are a certain number of days from the Second Coming. The 1260 (when the Anti-Christ conquers Jerusalem) happens 1260 days before Jesus' Return ends Satan's rule on earth. The 1290 happens 30 days before the 1260, this is why it is a SIGN for the Jews to Flee Judea, they get a 30 day notice. I always thought it was pure nonsensical instruction, for the Jews to get a SIGN as they were being Conquered by the Anti-Christ, but the ignorance has been on us, we misunderstood the clue. The Jews Flee when the AoD is being placed by a Jewish High Priest False Prophet, not by the Anti-Christ. Rev. 13 affirms this, who places the IMAGE of the Beast in the Temple? The False Prophet. We always assumed falsely the 1290 was the Anti-Christ, it is  not, and the SACRIFICE that s being TAKEN AWAY is not a profane meat sacrifice, why would Jesus the Man in Linen mention a PROFANE SACRIFICE? That which is TAKEN AWAY by this Jewish High Priest (False Prophet) is Jesus Worship by the Jews who REPENT, this is the only way they would understand they needed to FLEE Judea, they have read Matthew 24:15-17 and the Two-witnesses show up at the 1335 event which is THE BLESSING, to turn Israel back unto God, so says Malachi 4:5-6 and Zechariah 13:8-9.

Revelation has the 1260 in it in several places. Rev. 12 where the Woman (Israel) flees Judea. But the Wrath of God is also a 3.5 year period. Satan/Anti-Christ uses this Wrath to CLOAK his Wars, when this asteroid hits earth, while the rest of the world is trying to hell out, the Anti-Christ STRIKES, Conquering all those Nations he has AGREEMENTS with, and Israel is just one of the Nations the E.U. has AGREMENTS (Covenant in Hebrew simply meant AGREEMENT) with, they also have Agreements with Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Palestine, Libya, Egypt, Morocco, and Tunisia. What happens is he STRIKES and Conquers not only Israel but the whole Mediterranean Sea Coastline (THE MANY seen in Dan. 8:25 and 9:27). SEE Daniel 11:40-43, it tells us that. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Revelation Man

[Charlie744]

18 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Yes, this is why almost all Prophesy has to be read togther to understand it, and by that I mean you have to read the BEFORE and the AFTER then you can see it more clearly. You can't really read Daniel and try to UNDRSTAND it else you are wasting your time, you will be like Daniel who told God I understand not, those Prophesies in Daniel have in many cases come to pass, and by reading Jesus in Matt. 24, or John in the book of Revelation, we can see how the all fit together. 

The 1260 is nothing more than this, it is when God's Wrath on Mankind starts, and it is 1260 days BEFORE the Second Coming  Jesus Christ ends all the WONDERS Daniel was being shown. Thus the 1290 is LIKEWISE an EVENT that ends in 1290 days after all these wonders end (Second Coming) and the 1335 is an EVENT that ends in 1335 days, after all these wonders end (Second Coming).

See how the SECOND COMING is really the focal point and THE EVENTS are all at the other end of the timeline? God reverses the timeline and gives us EVENTS that are a certain number of days from the Second Coming. The 1260 (when the Anti-Christ conquers Jerusalem) happens 1260 days before Jesus' Return ends Satan's rule on earth. The 1290 happens 30 days before the 1260, this is why it is a SIGN for the Jews to Flee Judea, they get a 30 day notice. I always thought it was a pure nonsensical instruction, for the Jews to get a SIGN as they were being Conquered by the Anti-Christ, but the ignorance has been on us, we misunderstood the clue. The Jews Flee when the AoD is being placed by a Jewish High Priest False Prophet, not by the Anti-Christ. Rev. 13 affirms this, who places the IMAGE of the Beast? The False Prophet. We always assumed falsely the 1290 was the Anti-Christ, it is  not, and the SACRIFICE that s being TAKEN AWAY is not a profane meat sacrifice, why would Jesus the Man in Linen mention a PROFANE SACRIFICE? That which is TAKEN AWAY by this Jewish High Priest (False Prophet) is Jesus Worship by the Jews who REPENT, this is the only way they would understand they needed to FLEE Judea, they have read Matthew 24:15-17 and the Two-witnesses show up at the 1335 event which is THE BLESSING, to turn Israel back unto God, so says Malachi 4:5-6 and Zechariah 13:8-9.

Revelation has the 1260 in it in several places. Rev. 12 where the Woman (Israel) flees Judea. But the Wrath of God is also a 3.5 year period. Satan/Anti-Christ uses this Wrath to CLOAK his Wars, when this asteroid hits earth, while the rest of the world is trying to hell out, the Anti-Christ STRIKES, Conquering all those Nations he has AGREEMENTS with, and Israel is just one of the Nations the E.U. has AGREMENTS (Covenant in Hebrew simply meant AGREEMENT) with, they also have Agreements with Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Palestine, Libya, Egypt, Morocco, and Tunisia. What happens is he STRIKES and Conquers not only Israel but the whole Mediterranean Sea Coastline. SEE Daniel 11:40-43, it tells us that. 

Thank you very much for your comments RM.... It will be a little time before I can begin to look at Revelation. But since I am in Daniel at this time, I would ask one question..... In Revelation it specifically mentions 1260 days, but I don't believe (unless I completely missed it and that would be an embarrassment), I see this in Daniel.  Now, I do see a times, times and times and 1/2... is this what most folks are calling 1260 days in Daniel? 

Thanks again, Charlie

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

Thank you very much for your comments RM.... It will be a little time before I can begin to look at Revelation. But since I am in Daniel at this time, I would ask one question..... In Revelation it specifically mentions 1260 days, but I don't believe (unless I completely missed it and that would be an embarrassment), I see this in Daniel.  Now, I do see a times, times and times and 1/2... is this what most folks are calling 1260 days in Daniel? 

Thanks again, Charlie

Yes, a time = a year, a times = 2 years and a 1/3 [time] = 180 days since the Jewish years were 360 days that = 1260 days in total, 360 + 360 + 360 + 180 = 1260. 

In Rev. 12 it says it TWICE once with a Time, Times and Half and once with 1260 days. John/Jesus is saying, HEY.........This is the Daniel 12 event.

Rev. 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

{{{{ Above, we see Michael STANDS UP, see below Daniel 12 }}}}

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time(1260 Days).13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman(Israel) which brought forth the man(male) child(Jesus).

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle(God Himself protects her), that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time(1260 Days), from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood(Anti-Christs Army) after the woman(Israel), that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16 And the earth helped the woman(like in Egypt, via the wall of Fire, Red Sea etc), and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman(Fleeing Jews he could not get at), and went to make war with the remnant(Gentile Church who REPENT AFTER the Rapture) of her seed(Jesus was Israel's SEED see Gal. 3), which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

{{We know this means the Remnant CAN'T be Jews because God PROTECTS the 1/3 who Repent, that is what gets Satan/Anti-Christ ANGRY, and we also know the 2/3 of the Jews who do not Repent (Zechariah 13:8-9) will be CUT-OFF or die, and they thus do nit gave the TESTIMONY of Jesus, so the REMNANT can only be the Gentile Church, whom are a Remnant because the Church has been Raptured to Heaven.}}

Dan. 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

As we see above, Daniel 12 matches Revelation 12. Michael STANDS UP and protects Israel per the order of God Almighty. of course. He does so for 1260 days, we see that in Daniel 12:7. Everything in Eschatol0gy can basically be understood once a person understands THIS TIMING ISSUE.

 

[Charlie744]

4 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Yes, a time = a year, a times = 2 years and a 1/3 [time] = 180 days since the Jewish years were 360 days that = 1260 days in total, 360 + 360 + 360 + 180 = 1260. 

In Rev. 12 it says it TWICE once with a Time, Times and Half and once with 1260 days. John/Jesus is saying, HEY.........This is the Daniel 12 event.

Rev. 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

{{{{ Above, we see Michael STANDS UP, see below Daniel 12 }}}}

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time(1260 Days).13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman(Israel) which brought forth the man(male) child(Jesus).

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle(God Himself protects her), that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time(1260 Days), from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood(Anti-Christs Army) after the woman(Israel), that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16 And the earth helped the woman(like in Egypt, via the wall of Fire, Red Sea etc), and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman(Fleeing Jews he could not get at), and went to make war with the remnant(Gentile Church who REPENT AFTER the Rapture) of her seed(Jesus was Israel's SEED see Gal. 3), which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

{{We know this means the Remnant CAN'T be Jews because God PROTECTS the 1/3 who Repent, that is what gets Satan/Anti-Christ ANGRY, and we also know the 2/3 of the Jews who do not Repent (Zechariah 13:8-9) will be CUT-OFF or die, and they thus do nit gave the TESTIMONY of Jesus, so the REMNANT can only be the Gentile Church, whom are a Remnant because the Church has been Raptured to Heaven.}}

Dan. 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

As we see above, Daniel 12 matches Revelation 12. Michael STANDS UP and protects Israel per the order of God Almighty. of course. He does so for 1260 days, we see that in Daniel 12:7. Everything in Eschatol0gy can basically be understood once a person understands THIS TIMING ISSUE.

 

Ok! Thank you again and I will get back to you on this a little later, Charlie 

[Charlie744]

5 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Yes, a time = a year, a times = 2 years and a 1/3 [time] = 180 days since the Jewish years were 360 days that = 1260 days in total, 360 + 360 + 360 + 180 = 1260. 

In Rev. 12 it says it TWICE once with a Time, Times and Half and once with 1260 days. John/Jesus is saying, HEY.........This is the Daniel 12 event.

Rev. 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

{{{{ Above, we see Michael STANDS UP, see below Daniel 12 }}}}

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time(1260 Days).13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman(Israel) which brought forth the man(male) child(Jesus).

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle(God Himself protects her), that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time(1260 Days), from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood(Anti-Christs Army) after the woman(Israel), that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16 And the earth helped the woman(like in Egypt, via the wall of Fire, Red Sea etc), and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman(Fleeing Jews he could not get at), and went to make war with the remnant(Gentile Church who REPENT AFTER the Rapture) of her seed(Jesus was Israel's SEED see Gal. 3), which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

{{We know this means the Remnant CAN'T be Jews because God PROTECTS the 1/3 who Repent, that is what gets Satan/Anti-Christ ANGRY, and we also know the 2/3 of the Jews who do not Repent (Zechariah 13:8-9) will be CUT-OFF or die, and they thus do nit gave the TESTIMONY of Jesus, so the REMNANT can only be the Gentile Church, whom are a Remnant because the Church has been Raptured to Heaven.}}

Dan. 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

As we see above, Daniel 12 matches Revelation 12. Michael STANDS UP and protects Israel per the order of God Almighty. of course. He does so for 1260 days, we see that in Daniel 12:7. Everything in Eschatol0gy can basically be understood once a person understands THIS TIMING ISSUE.

 

 

Ok, I am back and copied the verse in Daniel 7 below. So, to me, since I have completed chapter 7 at this time, BUT NOT REVELATION, here is how I interpret this verse..... which IS in line with my interpretations of Daniel up to this point (and I also understand that you are able to make the same statement regarding your interpretations of this verse in concert WITH Revelation):

1) I believe it is very safe to say that 99% of folks interested, studying, learning about the Book of Daniel are in agreement when they interpret the "time, times, and 1/2 time in 7:25 as - 

                a) it pertains not to Daniel's time or the time of the Messiah but to the END TIMES,

                b) everyone also has converted this to 1,260 literal days - or some (perhaps SDA) contend it represents 1,260 years (but in the case of the SDA, I think it is not END TIMES but sometime within the Church age).

Once again I would like to mention that during my study, and after reading so much of the "accepted interpretations" of Daniel, it became clear to me that, even though I did then had an alternative interpretation, I had significant concerns with those interpretations - especially when I believe I witnessed how many prophetic verses were flung straight into Revelation and the end times because (my opinion) they were just so difficult to understand and interpret within their "theme" up to that point in their study. 

Consequently, I decided to understand their interpretations BUT COMPLETELY ELIMINATE the temptation to access Revelation in my effort to understand these more difficult verses. This also made sense to me since Paul and the Jews of the post Daniel / Pre-Messiah time would ONLY HAVE THE OT AT THEIR DISPOSAL AND I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT GOD'S FIRST AUDIENCE FOR DANIEL ARE HIS PEOPLE.  Since they should have / could have incorporated the other Messianic prophecies found in the OT WITH DANIEL, they should have been able to connect the dots and realize how Daniel is speaking of the coming restoration of the Jews, the city, the land, the Temple / Sanctuary, and the most important of them all - the restoration of the Holy of Holies or the coming Messiah. This is the big picture in Daniel and was given to the Jews FIRST. This is why I have repeatedly mentioned to understand and interpret Daniel WITHOUT Revelation. 

So, what does this time frame mean in 7:25?

First, it applies to the phrase "times and laws",

Second, it does require a "conversion" and this is dependant on the subject is speaking about.... times and laws given by God Himself,

So, we have this "little horn" out of the 4th kingdom speaking against the Word of God, he shall go against His people (and anyone else that does not accept their theology, rituals and practices - Christians or not), and this same "little horn" will hi-jack (my words of course) HIS TIMES AND LAWS. 

FOR ME (and this fits in perfectly with my interpretations of Daniel up to this chapter.... and even to 11), can mean only one thing: this "little horn" will take over / hijack / think to be the "new owner if you will / the steward / or whatever term that may be more appropriate of God's 10 commandments. These 10 commandments were given by God to Moses on Mt. Sinai some 3,500 years ago. Assuming we are near the end times, this means a "time" as used in this verse will equal 1,000 years. 3.5 times a 1,000 year (each) will tell us this "little horn" will "take over" HIS commandments that was GIVEN 3,500 years ago. The verse does not mean the "little horn" will or must hold onto it or have it in its possession for a 3,500 year period.... it refers to the period it was given until the end of time (hence the term "until"). Once again, this interpretation is NOT based on this ONE WORD "UNTIL", BUT THE OVERALL THEME I HAVE FOUND IN DANIEL.  

^7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

 

AND MOST IMPORTANT, FOR ME, IS THIS CONFIRMS JUST HOW CLOSE WE ARE TO THE END OF TIMES.... FROM MOSES TO ......SOMETIME VERY SOON.

Again, this interpretation along with more than a few, especially chapter 11 are diametrically opposed to today's accepted interpretations for the last 6 or so chapters in Daniel and they all seem to fit quite nicely together - the reason is they point / speak / are meant / prophecise about the coming Messiah and His Plan of Salvation and not just a continuation of the next rulers / powers / conflicts post Alexander....... they are meant to speak of HIM. 

Just my thoughts, Charlie

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

 

Ok, I am back and copied the verse in Daniel 7 below. So, to me, since I have completed chapter 7 at this time, BUT NOT REVELATION, here is how I interpret this verse..... which IS in line with my interpretations of Daniel up to this point (and I also understand that you are able to make the same statement regarding your interpretations of this verse in concert WITH Revelation):

1) I believe it is very safe to say that 99% of folks interested, studying, learning about the Book of Daniel are in agreement when they interpret the "time, times, and 1/2 time in 7:25 as - 

                a) it pertains not to Daniel's time or the time of the Messiah but to the END TIMES,

                b) everyone also has converted this to 1,260 literal days - or some (perhaps SDA) contend it represents 1,260 years (but in the case of the SDA, I think it is not END TIMES but sometime within the Church age).

Once again I would like to mention that during my study, and after reading so much of the "accepted interpretations" of Daniel, it became clear to me that, even though I did then had an alternative interpretation, I had significant concerns with those interpretations - especially when I believe I witnessed how many prophetic verses were flung straight into Revelation and the end times because (my opinion) they were just so difficult to understand and interpret within their "theme" up to that point in their study. 

Consequently, I decided to understand their interpretations BUT COMPLETELY ELIMINATE the temptation to access Revelation in my effort to understand these more difficult verses. This also made sense to me since Paul and the Jews of the post Daniel / Pre-Messiah time would ONLY HAVE THE OT AT THEIR DISPOSAL AND I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT GOD'S FIRST AUDIENCE FOR DANIEL ARE HIS PEOPLE.  Since they should have / could have incorporated the other Messianic prophecies found in the OT WITH DANIEL, they should have been able to connect the dots and realize how Daniel is speaking of the coming restoration of the Jews, the city, the land, the Temple / Sanctuary, and the most important of them all - the restoration of the Holy of Holies or the coming Messiah. This is the big picture in Daniel and was given to the Jews FIRST. This is why I have repeatedly mentioned to understand and interpret Daniel WITHOUT Revelation. 

So, what does this time frame mean in 7:25?

First, it applies to the phrase "times and laws",

Second, it does require a "conversion" and this is dependant on the subject is speaking about.... times and laws given by God Himself,

So, we have this "little horn" out of the 4th kingdom speaking against the Word of God, he shall go against His people (and anyone else that does not accept their theology, rituals and practices - Christians or not), and this same "little horn" will hi-jack (my words of course) HIS TIMES AND LAWS. 

FOR ME (and this fits in perfectly with my interpretations of Daniel up to this chapter.... and even to 11), can mean only one thing: this "little horn" will take over / hijack / think to be the "new owner if you will / the steward / or whatever term that may be more appropriate of God's 10 commandments. These 10 commandments were given by God to Moses on Mt. Sinai some 3,500 years ago. Assuming we are near the end times, this means a "time" as used in this verse will equal 1,000 years. 3.5 times a 1,000 year (each) will tell us this "little horn" will "take over" HIS commandments that was GIVEN 3,500 years ago. The verse does not mean the "little horn" will or must hold onto it or have it in its possession for a 3,500 year period.... it refers to the period it was given until the end of time (hence the term "until"). Once again, this interpretation is NOT based on this ONE WORD "UNTIL", BUT THE OVERALL THEME I HAVE FOUND IN DANIEL.  

^7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

 

AND MOST IMPORTANT, FOR ME, IS THIS CONFIRMS JUST HOW CLOSE WE ARE TO THE END OF TIMES.... FROM MOSES TO ......SOMETIME VERY SOON.

Again, this interpretation along with more than a few, especially chapter 11 are diametrically opposed to today's accepted interpretations for the last 6 or so chapters in Daniel and they all seem to fit quite nicely together - the reason is they point / speak / are meant / prophecise about the coming Messiah and His Plan of Salvation and not just a continuation of the next rulers / powers / conflicts post Alexander....... they are meant to speak of HIM. 

Just my thoughts, Charlie

You better hurry up and read them all, by the fall of 2025 we wont be here IMHO.

The reason you have to read all of scriptures together, and are commanded to do so, via the verse HERE A LITTLE, THERE A LLITTLE, LINE UPON LINE, etc. is it all ties together, affirming God. If I told you where God had planted 2 secrets under a rock and you went and found them it would be like, OK, maybe, but if I gave you a list of 2000 places and you drove to California to look behind a tree and back through Utah to look under a rock, and both were there, then the sheer multitude would sooner rather than later build up your faith. The more info the better, especially when the Old Testament is pointing to the things in the New Testament and vice versa.

We know its 1260 days because Revelation 12 tells us that. John/Jesus gives us the same story twice in the same chapter and says it with Daniel's Time, Times and Half and then with via 1260 days. We are even told by Daniel that it means a RULER will Conquer Israel (holy peoples) and then it will all END 1260 days later. So, if you have any understanding but it being days, you are just wasting your time brother, an we do not have much time IMHO.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Revelation Man

[Charlie744]

2 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

You better hurry up and read them all, by the fall of 2025 we wont be here IMHO.

The reason you have to read all of scriptures together, and are commanded to do so, via the verse HERE A LITTLE, THERE A LLITTLE, LINE UPON LINE, etc. is it all ties together, affirming God. If I told you where God had planted 2 secrets under a rock and you went and found them it would be like, OK, maybe, but if I gave you a list of 2000 places and you drove to California to look behind a tree and back through Utah to look under a rock, and both were there, then the sheer multitude would sooner rather than later build up your faith. The more info the better, especially when the Old Testament is pointing to the things in the New Testament and vice versa.

We know its 260 days because Revelation 12 tells us that. John/Jess gives us the same story twice, says it with Daniel's Time, Times and Half then with 1260 days. We are even told by Daniel that it means a RULER will Conquer Israel (holy peoples) and then it will all END 1260 days later. So, if you have any understanding but it being days, you are just wasting your time brother, an we do not have much time IMHO.

ALWAYS nice to read your responses! And I will get to Revelation but I am still working on Daniel. I hope to be able to discuss Revelation with you when the time comes... God willing!

 I do understand there is written 1,260 days (no conversion) in Revelation but I don’t think it equals this phrase “time, times and 1/2”. In Daniel it is telling us an important act this “little horn” WILL perform or employ against God. It is one of the characteristics of this “little horn” that will come out of the “beast or the 4th kingdom”. Although we see chapter 11 quite differently, this same act (taking ownership of His 10 commandments) are further explained / revealed in more detail in chapter 11. The “theme” in Daniel of the “restoration” of the Jews, the city, the land, the coming Messiah and this “little horn” continues into and through 11. There is no breakage in the “restorical theme” of Daniel. An “historical” approach or interpretation of 11, and including 7:25 (and others in 8,9 & 10), reveals a break in ANY consistent theme in the last 5 or 6 chapters.. 

But that is just my opinion and interpretations...

Thanks again for your comments and I am sure we will discuss so much more, Charlie