Divorce

[Heleadethme]

22 hours ago, Behold said:

No offense intended,  but,  Im really only intersted in what God teaches, and because i understand the NT and the mercy of God, im not really available to leave that and agree with someone's opinion who resists it.

Here is what i can tell you.  If you want to be a very strict idealist regarding the subject of divorce and remarriage, then you can teach...."only for the cause of desertion and fornication".

But if you want to live in the real world and deal with real situations, then you have to eventually come to the realization that the heart of the law is mercy.

The Law is not given for you to be under its dominion to prove you are worthy enough for God to accept.

The Law, is given to show you that God's mercy is greater then the Law that previously defined you and all your good works as a sinning filthy rag.

Listen, Novus.  God is not just the God of the Law..>>He is much more.  The law does not define Him... He is defined by LOVE.   Love is Mercy, and Charity, and compassion.  The Law is NONE OF THIS.

So, God deals with us, by becoming One of us, to be able to be touched with the feelings of our fears and worry and insecurity and pain.

When God deals with HIS CHILD who He hung on a Cross while Bleeding to SAVE, He does not later become less merciful.

Here is one of the greatest gifts that God gives continually.   Its a ... 2nd Chance.  And God gives these for as long as you live.  He endlessly gives you a 2nd chance.

And that INCLUDES accepting that you need to get out of a bad marriage that has ruined your life, is ruining your children, and is stopping you from even having hope for tomorrow.

Do not condemn God's children.    He doesn't.    So, neither should you.

Actually the Law was more lenient concerning divorce than Jesus was/is.........He was giving the church a higher standard to live by than the Law.  One which we can't live out in the strength of our flesh, but only with the Help of the Holy Spirit.  Separation is permitted for untenable circumstances as long as one remains pure.

[Behold]

3 hours ago, Refresher said:

It means that, marriage can only break or invalid is death, so if the husband or wife are both alive they are both bound by vow that instituted by God.

 

 

Listen, 

We are in the NEW TESTAMENT , now.   Understand?  We are not bound by the OLD TESTAMENT LAW, regarding marriage and divorce or keeping the Law or commandments to be accepted by God.

Let me explain.   Jesus has come.  He has died on THE Cross.  His Blood is the NEW TESTAMENT the NEW COVENANT, that has replaced the OLD TESTAMENT and OLD COVENANT.

We are no longer, as the BORN AGAIN, under the LAW or COMMANDMENTS, regarding trying to KEEP THEM, to TRY be accepted by God.

So, As Paul is teaching that when your old man is crucified with Christ on the Cross, your obligation to the previous OT covenant DIES...

If you are born again, you are "no longer under the LAW.....but under GRACE".   This means that GRACE has become the "law" for the Born again.  And under GRACE you are free from the "curse of the law", and one of those  has to do with "married only once".

So, if you are married, and the marriage is a Hellish mistake, that can't be resolved, and is ruining LIVES, you can separate from this situation, and remarry someone else who is born again and you are not "committing" adultery or causing the former mate to commit it if they also remarry.   This is because there is no LAW that will condemn you or judge you any longer, as "Christ has redeemed us from the "curse of the law" in this case and in all cases where the previous OT Laws and Commandments use to be able to judge you.

Now they CAN'T.

So, does this mean to abuse that "liberty" and marry 20 times?  No it does not.   Grace is not to be used as "an occasion to the flesh"< but it does give leeway, and freedom, to live life free from condemnation, when we make a bad choice, or we blow it.

Listen...... the LAW DEMANDS........... GRACE GIVES...     Grace gives mercy that is never ending.  Its the effect of the Blood of Jesus always being IN EFFECT, always cleansing, restoring, forgiving,  while never judging.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Behold

[Behold]

2 hours ago, Refresher said:

One flesh is biblical Inside marriage Mark 10:8  "⁸ and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh" or we call it Fusion.

So, sex outside marriage we call it adultery, fornicators and never never in one flesh..rather "Lust of the Flesh".

"fusion".  what is this?   

Listen, the word is consummation.  Its the act of physical intercourse, of joining the male body to the female by sexual relation.

And its JESUS, who termed sex that is not related to having it with your mate, "fornication".

So, i have no idea what you are teaching or where you learned these concepts, but, its nothing to do with the New Testament.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Behold

[Behold]

21 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

 Separation is permitted for untenable circumstances as long as one remains pure.

Quote a verse that says....>"as LONG AS YOU REMAIN PURE, after you Divorce,  YOU CAN DIVORCE".

So,  this bizarre idea is not found in a NEW TESTAMENT>

I would wager that you are using some commentary that is written by a heretic, as this is usually the case when someone is on a Christian forum posting ideas that can't be found in a bible verse, and were never taught by Jesus before the Cross or by Paul after the Cross.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Behold

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, Jostler said:

so what good does all this theology do for someone who has had all manner of abuse thrust on them from childhood, who has been made one flesh with many against their will?  This thread looks a lot like "friends" Job had.....

Fornication is sex outside of marriage.......though it does mean becoming one flesh with the other person, as Paul wrote.  However becoming "one flesh" with someone in a predatory situation against one's will and consent does not constitute "marriage".....that is called rape, plain and simple.  And the one who had this foist upon them is not bound or at fault in such circumstances.

[Behold]

3 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Fornication is sex outside of marriage.......though it does mean becoming one flesh with the other person, as Paul wrote.  However becoming "one flesh" with someone in a predatory situation against one's will and consent does not constitute "marriage".....that is called rape, plain and simple.  And the one who had this foist upon them is not bound or at fault in such circumstances.

Fornication, is of itself, what it is.   There is no lessening of the end result of it, if its forced or not.

The NT , including Paul, does not say..>"fornication does not count or exist as fornication, only if its not forced".  So, you are teaching an idea of an unfortunate moral consequence, that has nothing to do with the spiritual reality.

The reality is, if 2 become "One flesh", it is what it is..... Rape does not preclude it from being so...

"well, thats not fair"......And that does not matter.   Its just a fact of the consequence of the deed.

Its like you saying...>"well, if a baby is born from Rape, thats not right"......Well, no, its not right, but that has nothing to do with the consequence of the deed.

The end result is, if you join your flesh to another, sexually, outside of marriage, its still "one flesh", as the end result.

[Novus]

24 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Fornication is sex outside of marriage.......though it does mean becoming one flesh with the other person, as Paul wrote.  However becoming "one flesh" with someone in a predatory situation against one's will and consent does not constitute "marriage".....that is called rape, plain and simple.  And the one who had this foist upon them is not bound or at fault in such circumstances.

Malachi 2:14-15 states the "wife of thy covenant" - It is my understanding that a covenant is entered into by consent from both parties. So in light of that, what you say makes sense:

Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the Lord hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant. And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Novus

[Behold]

5 minutes ago, Novus said:

the wife of thy covenant. And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.

If you can do some study on "one flesh", what this means, and WHY, then you will begin to understand what you don't comprehend yet.

See, many in the year '2020, consider marriage to be a vow, a blood test, and a marriage license.

"one flesh" has nothing to do with any of that......so, you have to set aside your preconceptions and find out the actual details of what "one flesh" means.

You have to actually get a NT and study why Paul is telling a man not to become "one flesh" with a Hooker, instead of ONLY saying...>"dont fornicate with her".

study < Get in there.

 

[Heleadethme]

15 minutes ago, Novus said:

Malachi 2:14-15 states the "wife of thy covenant" - It is my understanding that a covenant is entered into by consent of both parties. So in light of that, what you say makes sense.

Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the Lord hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant. And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.

Amen, I agree.........a person is only in a covenant if they have entered into a covenant.......I believe that necessarily involves their free will consent and intention, otherwise it's an oxymoron, since that's what a covenant IS.  Nobody is saved and in blood covenant with Jesus against their will....that would be an oxymoron too.  And marriage covenant is a picture of Jesus and the church.

[Jostler]

On 4/8/2020 at 4:02 PM, RarexxRose said:

How is divorce or getting a divorce a spiritual work? How do you know if you are truly and fully divorced from a person?

 

This is the question someone has asked for help with.  No mention has been made of any intention to remarry, or any other thing so liberally addressed.  Has anyone actually stopped to pray for this person and listened to Him about how to speak life into this trauma?  He will often give insight enough to allow for at least some prayer with understanding and ministry that heals ....if she needed a theology lesson she could go to a seminary.