Those who were caught up to the cloud to be with the Lord FOREVER will not be overcome by antichrist, unless you are left behind

[Omegaman 3.0]

4 hours ago, douggg said:

The reason the rapture cannot take place after or at the great tribulation, is that in 1Thessalonians5:9-11 is the Rapture/Resurrection.    Which the world must be saying peace and safety before the Day of the Lord beginning.    Hardly the case during the great tribulation. 

Hey douggg, thanks for responding.

You cited 1 Thess 5:9-11, so let's get in on the table where we all can see it:

 9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him. 11 Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing.

You said of that:

Which the world must be saying peace and safety before the Day of the Lord beginning. 

First question: Why must the world be saying that before the Day of the Lord? What makes you certain, that the Day of the Lord, is the narrowly specific time you might think it is? Assertions are one thing, evidence is nice. However, if we are meaning before the day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath, then yes, I agree.

Now, the peace and safety verbiage, comes from 1 Thess 5:3, since you brought it up, and place it before the Day of the Lord. Now, I think it is best, that the timing of that, would best be determined by what the text says, not by what we think about what it will be like for this saying to take place. So again, the text:

3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. 

From that it is clear, that when they are saying "peace and safety" that their destruction is imminent. When does their destruction take place, that we know, is when Jesus returns, after the Tribulation. 

Now, if I were to speculate, I would suggest that this is a good match for that time:

Rev 13:3 and 4:

And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; 4 they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?” 

See that rhetorical question there, "Who is able to make war with him?" The answer, in their mind is obviously "no one is able to make war with him". Since he is that powerful, there is peace, no one can challenge him. Peace and safety.

Now, this is of course, in the Great Tribulation, not only because that start in the middle of Daniels 70th week, but the text here in Rev tends to reinforce that, because it then says:

 5 There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven.

Forty two months, what a coincidence, half of 7 years, presumably from the middle of the 70th week, to the end of the great trib.

So, unlike the "hardly the case" you suggest about the great tribulation, it actually fits like a hand in a glove.

You also said: 

Quote

While the rapture/resurrection cannot happen at the end of the great tribulation, it does not necessarily have to happen before the 70th week begins (as the pre-trib view asserts) - although it could.

I like how people just assert things. You have not established that it cannot happen at the end, or if you did, I missed it. I admit that I am too simple to follow your complicated chart, but I never saw a need for complication. As the simple sequence I show, matches scripture, and conflicts with none, as long as unwarranted implications are not added to the Bible's verses.

Let's go back into 1 Thess 5 again, since there is a lot of good things there to notice.

 1 Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. 3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.

Now, this is done a lot in eschatological passages, showing two groups of people. The day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night, (that is good information) without notice, suddenly, by surprise, would seem to me the implication, Verse 3:

While THEY are saying peace and safety, destruction will come upon THEM suddenly, and THEY will not escape. THEY, are group 1. Then comes the contrast, in verse 4:

But YOU are not in darkness, that that day will overtake YOU as a thief.

So, that is spelled out in no uncertain terms, The day of the Lord and it's destruction is for THEM, the ones in darkeness, and NOT for the believers, who are watchful sons of light, Christians!

Full circle back to verses 9-11, not that we have the context that is it's basis:

God has not destined US for wrath. Right! Paul just said THEY were headed for destruction. What is the alternative promised to YOU, the second group, the believers"

The obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, so that whether we are awake when He returns, or have died, we will live together with Him at His return (after the tribulation. Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing.

That is what this passage is about, encouragement, reassuring that God has not abandoned His own, but that He is coming to gather them together to be with Him forever. Salvation, instead of wrath.

As for the rapture anytime view, I do not see where that is supported by any normal reading of scripture, in a way that all verses about the end times can harmonize. No one has ever shown be otherwise, and I have not been able to discover it on my own.

I appreciate your trying to educate me on this, but for me to get educated, I need to be convinced. I have said it before, that I am not against views that I do not hold, I just do not see evidence in the Bible that supports them. While I used to be a pre-tribber, I eventually recognized that in terms of rapture sequence, the pre-trib view seems to have the least amount of scripture to support it.

I know you did not insist that pre-trib was the only option, I just do not think it in particular is a option, and least for those who want to stick to the Bible, instead of finding work-arounds.

Thanks for your input!

[Omegaman 3.0]

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

I can, if you don't mind me butting in and you're willing to consider it with an open mind.

I do not at all mind your butting in. I am willing to consider with an open mind, but I am sure that others to not think so. I am not offended, if they think that my failure to agree, means my mind is closed. However, I am not a pushover, I admit, I am not easily swayed and slow to change, because in general, I have already weighed most things, but there is always the hope, that someone can open my eyes to something I have missed.

You left your post unfinished, with more to come, so I will wait for that before responding piece-meal without the who picture to consider. I may be slow to respond, I am busy and sometimes forgetful, but I have every intention of reading what you have to say!

[douggg]

24 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

First question: Why must the world be saying that before the Day of the Lord? What makes you certain, that the Day of the Lord, is the narrowly specific time you might think it is

I am not thinking the Day of the Lord is a narrowly specific time.    I think the Day of the Lord is broad, extending into eternity and never ending.

What is a narrowly specific time is "the beginning of the Day of the Lord." 

_____________________________________________

As to why the world will be saying peace and safety, when the the Day of the Lord begins is as a thief in the night?

It will be because Israel and the world will be thinking at that time, following Gog/Magog,  they have entered the messianic age of peace and safety.   With the Antichrist, the little horn person coming from the EU, anointed the King of Israel by the false prophet, as being the messiah.

false messiah, false messianic age.   For most of the first half of the seven years, following Gog/Magog.

 

 

[douggg]

1 hour ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. 

From that it is clear, that when they are saying "peace and safety" that their destruction is imminent. When does their destruction take place, that we know, is when Jesus returns, after the Tribulation. 

We know for certain that the world will not be saying peace and safety when Jesus returns.    So that eliminates the post-trib view right there.

The great tribulation is triggered by the abomination of desolation placed in the temple.    Daniel 12:11-12 indicates that the abomination of desolation is setup 1335 days before Jesus returns.   Which during the great tribulation time will come all the destruction, that if not for the sake of the elect, limited (that's what it means by cut short), no flesh will survive.

So the destruction begins around that time, when the abomination of desolation is setup in the temple.  

Concerning the elect, to avoid persecution by the beast, Jesus warns the Jews in Judea to flee into the mountains when they first see that abomination of desolation standing in the temple (which will be an image of the beast in the standing position).   Something like this... I paintshopped to illustrate the concept...

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by douggg

[douggg]

1 hour ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

So, that is spelled out in no uncertain terms, The day of the Lord and it's destruction is for THEM, the ones in darkeness, and NOT for the believers, who are watchful sons of light, Christians!

The initial years of the Day of the Lord is not intended for Christians, I agree.

1 hour ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

The obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, so that whether we are awake when He returns, or have died, we will live together with Him at His return (after the tribulation. Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing.

That is what this passage is about, encouragement, reassuring that God has not abandoned His own, but that He is coming to gather them together to be with Him forever. Salvation, instead of wrath.

I am encouraged that a way of escape, has been planned , that by the rapture, Christians don't have to go through those early years of the Day of the Lord, when the great tribulation takes place.

1 hour ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

As for the rapture anytime view, I do not see where that is supported by any normal reading of scripture, in a way that all verses about the end times can harmonize. No one has ever shown be otherwise, and I have not been able to discover it on my own.

Well, the verses are harmonized in the anytime rapture view, while the traditional rapture views are not.    Please present your rapture view in timeline chart form, including the beginning of the Day of the Lord, the abomination of desolation, the transgression of desolation, the great tribulation, and Jesus's return.   And the saying peace and safety factor.

And then we can compare.

 

In the anytime rapture view, the rapture can take place anytime within the blue shaded zone.    The rapture is a sign-less event.

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by douggg

[Retrobyter]

20 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Is your Avatar representing hidden triangle of all seeing eye. (No question mark = a statement, not a question.)

No, is your Avatar representing gay animals on board the ark.

Of course not, but your statement is just as ridiculous as mine is! Play nice!

[Retrobyter]

11 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I do not at all mind your butting in. I am willing to consider with an open mind, but I am sure that others to not think so. I am not offended, if they think that my failure to agree, means my mind is closed. However, I am not a pushover, I admit, I am not easily swayed and slow to change, because in general, I have already weighed most things, but there is always the hope, that someone can open my eyes to something I have missed.

You left your post unfinished, with more to come, so I will wait for that before responding piece-meal without the who picture to consider. I may be slow to respond, I am busy and sometimes forgetful, but I have every intention of reading what you have to say!

Shalom, Omegaman 3.0.

Thank you. That's all I would expect.

Here's the rest:

Yeshua` (Jesus), being the heir of David, was rejected anyway by the elders of Yhudah (Judah). So, Yeshua` delivers a scathing rebuke to them in Matthew 23! Then, He concludes with these words:

Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV)

37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you DESOLATE! 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, 'Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.'"

And this last statement was from the prophecy in Psalm 118:22-26.

Psalm 118:22-26 (KJV)

22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner ("chief stone of the angle" = a capstone).
23 This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
25 Save now (Hebrew: Yhowshiya' naah = "Rescue us now!" = Greek: hoosanna), I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

The Hebrew of this sentence is "Baruwkh haba' b-shem YHWH." And, as I've noted before, it is the phrase that is used in plural at the seaports and airports in Israel today:

This sign is spelled "bet-reish-vav-khaf-yod-mem  hei-bet-alef-yod-mem," "baruwkhiym haba'iym," the "yod-mem" ending making both words plural." It would be translated as "Welcome, Visitors," in English, but it really means "Be-blessed, the-Comers." And, "in the name" means "on the authority." This makes the sentence in verse 26 translate to "Welcome, the Comer on the authority of YHWH."

So, Yeshua`s (Jesus') words can translate to "For I say unto you, You will no longer see me until you can say, 'Welcome, the Comer on the authority of YHWH!'" Thus, He won't return until the Jews of Jerusalem WELCOME Him back as the Messiah of YHWH!

Nevertheless, they rejected Him as their King, as YHWH'S Son and Messiah to be King! In so doing, this led to Him calling their house "desolate."

Then, they proceeded to crucify Him and have Him killed on the cross. The moment He died, we read:

Matthew 27:50-53 (KJV)

50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

The author of Hebrews added this:

Hebrews 10:11-22 (KJV)

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man (Yeshua` or Jesus), after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them";

17 And "their sins and iniquities will I remember no more."

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 And having an high priest over the house of God; 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Finally, let's take a fresh look at Daniel 9:

Daniel 9:20-27 (KJV)

20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God; 21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation. 22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said,

"O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. 23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
(1) to finish the transgression, and
(2) to make an end of sins, and
(3) to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
(4) to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
(5) to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
(6) to anoint the most Holy. 
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven (7) weeks (7 x 7 = 49 years), and threescore and two (62) weeks (62 x 7 = 434 years): the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two (> 62) weeks (> 62 x 7 = > 434 years, which would be INTO the 70th "week!" There's no reason why ALL the weeks do not run consecutively!) shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he (the Messiah) shall confirm (strengthen) the covenant with many for one (1) week (1 x 7 = 7 years): and in the midst (1/2) of the week (1/2 x 7 = 3.5 years) he (the Messiah) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations (Matthew 23:1-37) he shall make it desolate (Matthew 23:38), even until the consummation (Matthew 23:39. THIS puts the "gap" in these weeks!), and that determined (the 2,000-year "tribulation," a pressure put relentlessly upon the Jews to bring them back to God and His Messiah - HIS CHOICE - for their King) shall be poured upon the (ones made) desolate (the Jews)."

This view of Daniel 9 is grammatically correct in Hebrew! The phrase "`am nagiyd," translated as "the people of the prince," is a noun construct state. The word "`am" can participate in the action of the sentence, but the second word "nagiyd" cannot!

Furthermore, the sentence doesn't end in verse 26 but continues into verse 27. Therefore, the antecedent of the word "he" in verse 27 CANNOT refer to the "prince" in verse 26. One must go back farther, and the only word that can be the noun for these pronouns is "messiah" in verse 26.

[Retrobyter]

On 4/28/2020 at 10:07 PM, douggg said:

 

 

 

       

 

 

 

 

Shalom, douggg.

Apparently, you place a LOT of stock in diagrams. However, the information that you are attempting to support with these diagrams is NOT supported by the Scriptures! Scriptures > diagrams. The Scriptures far exceed the theology of mere diagrams.

The "soul" is the "breathing creature." Strong's Concordance aside, we see this definition in the very creation of the Man (Hebrew: haAadaam).

Simply LOOK at what is going on in Genesis 2:7!

Genesis 2:7 (KJV)

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

YHWH Elohiym ([the] LORD God) formed MAN, not the "body of the man," of the dust of the ground!

YHWH Elohiym breathed into the MAN'S nostrils the breath (a puff) of life (living things)!

MAN became a living soul based on the puff of living things that YHWH Elohiym puffed into his nostrils!

Again,

At first, the MAN was just a lifeless body created from the dust of the ground.

Then, YHWH Elohiym started the MAN breathing with a puff of air! 

Finally, the MAN BECAME a living soul, that is, he started to breathe on his own!

Even if one doesn't speak Hebrew, he should be able to figure it out from this context. The Hebrew word "nefesh," however, DOES mean a "breathing creature," just as the word's verbal root is "naafash" means "to breathe."

This verse, by the way, was what gave the medical community the idea for CPR, Cardio-Pulmonary Resuscitation!

And, "spirit," by the way, means a "wind" and by analogy a "blowing" of air, or the "breath" itself.

[Revelation Man]

On 4/27/2020 at 11:02 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

He Revelation man, I really chimed in here to let you know that you are getting a bit personal, and accusative, please stick to the topic, and cease telling people that they cannot see the obvious.

I understand how you might could see that but he wants to make an assertion that someone is stating an untruth but he doesn't even make an argument, because they know I have the facts on my side, so they don't usually engage in debates with me. So, I have to make my points in different ways, by showing how Jesus was also missed by people in his day, obviously Jesus is God and was always "in the bible" as returning as a suffering servant, but at times, people see what they want to see. They PREFERRED a Conquering Hero to a Suffering Servant, so that is what they saw. Its a juxtaposition on a SINGLE POINT, not an indictment that they are like the Pharisees in that Jesus "called them Devils". So I see your point, but it was a single layered comparison, not a multi faceted comparison per se. 

On 4/27/2020 at 11:02 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Apart from that, I thought I would add that you are absolutely correct I think about what you said that the church cannot return to earth while the beast is on the earth, unless they are raptured first. The only think I would note about that that I think is missing, is that you did not establish that the rapture had to occur before the time of the beast, nor have you established that it cannot occur after the Great Tribulation. If you believe that to be the case, you should establish that with some relevant Bible quotes, right? I look forward to seeing those.

In the meantime, I am thinking that those are just assertions, an idea added to scripture, that scripture never states. Is there some reason you know of (scripturally) why the following sequence cannot happen?:

Paul tells us the Rapture is a MYSTERY... 1 Cor. 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

The Greek word MUSTERION by my studies basically means this ( a SECRET by God's SILENCE ) it means to SHUT THE MOUTH, to KEEP SECRET, to HIDE. Put it all together and it pretty much means God has kept this a secret by staying SILENT on this issue. Then we get the reasoning in Rev. 17 why the Harlot was a MYSTERY via the Angel in verse 7. Here, Paul tells us the Rapture of the Church was a MYSTERY HERETOFORE, so that tells us right off the bat its not a subject that was intended for Israel per se,, but only for the Bride of Christ, Israel is the Bride of God, Jacob had TWO BRIDES, one the preferred or chosen bride. So, there is a reason it was a MYSTERY, its not for Israel per se, but only for those in Christ, whom Paul is telling at this point in time, and its for Jews in Christ also of course. This is why Daniel is told he will stand in his lot at the VERY END, when Jesus returns of course, after the 1260's Event passes and sees Jesus return to END THESE WONDERS.

But the Church comes back with Jesus. So the Prophets of God, the THUS SAITH THE Lord prophets were never given this, its not for Israel. It was given to Paul, but his letters were not informative enough in that he never intended them to be Scriptures or THUS SAITH THE Lord, in that the Holy Spirit was now among us and he gave guidance, but assumed the Spirit would always be with us, and it is even unto this day, so why are we so confused on the subject? Well, for starters I don't think most people buy into those other theories, I mainly see it online, not in the Churches, most people I see understand the Rapture is pre tribulation and that we the Church will be in Heaven at the time of the 70th week, which is ALL ABOUT Israel and their repentance. Just like Jesus the Suffering Servant was a vague, but there for all to see, so is the Rapture via LOOKING AT OTHER EVENTS and looking at all THE TIMING. As you know, some people are trained code breakers, are paid to see patterns etc. etc. I am called to Prophecy, I can see these things easily, where some might just see them by faith, and other might not can see them at all because they get confused by the many and varied so called options/opinions. I see the PATTERNS kind of like the movie Patterns of Evidence, but in real life studies. 

For instance, if you saw a cop take a guy out of a store in cuffs, saw a mask on a floor, a woman terrified behind the counter, all through a window, but the cop coming out told you you need to leave, no one would have to tell you the Store had just been robbed, but you could debate with a friend in the car who might say "hey man, we don't know the store was robbed, the cop never said that man", but in truth, we know the store was robbed, right ? Its kinda like that. I mean we have to come to Jesus/God by FAITH ALONE, that is our righteousness. So can I show the Rapture, yes, I can tell people all the pertinent facts, but they will say, the Cop didn't say anything man !! It is what it is. As I pointed out, the Pharisees kept telling Jesus he was not the Son of God, but his coming is indeed in the Old Testament. 

The KEY is understanding the timing of God in all things, God clearly shows us Israel is the PREFERRED BRIDE, God then CHOOSES ANOTHER Bride via Jesus, then at the very end, after the Rapture of Jesus' Bride God Redeems His Bride Israel. This is why the Wheat grows together with he Wicked tares to the VERY END, but the Church is not going to see the Wrath of God at all, we are not here. Israel will be protected in Petra. Jesus is going to reign from Jerusalem for 1000 years God's PLANS for the Church AND Israel are not the same per se. Israel will be the center of Jesus' Kingdom, he will reign from Israel with humans being born and dying as they were for the previous 6000 years, YET there is NO SIN............I don't mean there is no Sin Nature, but there is NO WILLFUL SIN !! Satan is locked in the pit, no humans are tempted, thus this proves for all the Universe that Jesus' ways are just and pure and that Satan is the DECEIVER. Man will not lust, will not be greedy, will not hate, will not murder etc. etc. BUT.........Sin Nature will still persist, those living will sin via OMISSION of course, but they will not desire to sin, this is a testament against Satan, for his upcoming trial. That is the whole point of the 1000 year reign, to show Satan's guilt, to Juxtapose Jesus' 1000 year reign vs. his 6000 year rule. One is MURDER & MAYHEM, the other is PEACE & LOVE. 

God has a reason for the Jewish peoples REMAINING on earth and taking the Church out, our job on this earth is over. The Seven Feasts clearly shows this Pattern, I see PATTERNS. 

Spring Feasts Jesus fulfilled.

1. Feast of Passover {Jesus blood}

2. Feast of First-fruits {Jesus was the first-fruits of the grave}

3. Feast of Unleavened bread {Jesus was without sin}

 

We are now in the Summer Harvest

4. Feast of Pentecost/The Harvest/The Church Age { We are on the Calendar all by ourselves !! Israel fulfilled the First Three Feasts and the 70th week will fulfill the lat three  Feasts, the Church fulfills THE HARVEST !! Amen. }

 

Fall Feasts yet to be fulfilled

5. Feast of Trumps {this never did much of anything, EXCEPT MAKE ANNOUNCEMENTS, thus Paul's LAST TRUMP is referring to this, the Trump sounds to END THE HARVEST {Church Age} and to ANNOUNCE that the Feast of Atonement AND Tabernacle were/are both nigh at hand.}

6. Feast of Atonement {the 70th week prophecy of Daniel clearly says Israel MUST REPENT BEFORE Jesus can return. That is not debatable, but they debate it anyway. So Israel ATONES during the 70th week {Wheat} whilst the Church is in Heaven Marrying the Lamb.}

7. Feast of Tabernacle {Tabernacle means to DWELL WITH God, and Jesus is God AND Jesus is going to dwell with Israel in Jerusalem for 1000 years, so Israel TABERNACLES with God.}

 

So, there is a reason the Church and Israel are separate entities, God has separate plans for each. We must ALL come unto God by FAITH ALONE {or the same way}, but God can still designate each a PURPOSE. Just like He designates each of us in Christ DIFFERENT jobs to do. {Romans 9-11 is about God, the POTTERS WHEEL, choosing to do as He pleases with the VESSELS He is creating, thus its saying that God CHOSE Israel, now hes CHOOSING the Gentiles. In the end, He will REDEEM Israel again.

So the only Rapture understanding God will have to show is unto each person via the Holy Spirit,  we have to be studious on our own. Its there, but just like the Pharisees couldn't see the Suffering Servant, there will be those who can't see the Pretrib Rapture for whatever reason. But, I can see it, I see these type of things. It is what I do I guess, it is my calling. 

God Bless.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Revelation Man

[ENOCH2010]

You could say the store was robbed, but you have no proof. That's the same thing the pre-trib doctrine does, they make assumptions that are not in the Bible.