Patriotism is for Christians too!

[warrior12]

1 hour ago, JustPassingThru said:

America is God's experimenter, ...He gave to His persecuted children the land to live in and form their own system of government, ...the founding fathers understood that and formed/wrote a Constitution based on the Judeo-Christian values and morals found in the Bible, ...the "only" nation in history, outside of Israel, ...to do so. 

These type of topics should not be spoken on a forum like this.   It opens up a can of worms .  Leave it for the secular forums.

[vic66]

4 hours ago, Tigger56 said:

“A traitor is everyone who does not agree with me.”

 This quote is from King George III who was the British king at the time of the American Revolution, but this quote could easily be attributable to many of the Democratic leaders that are currently abusing the rights and freedoms of the American people. I am disappointed in some of the Republican Governors during the Wuhan Virus debacle, but the greatest abuses of power are clearly from men and women in leadership that are left-wing liberals who see the Wuhan pandemic as the perfect opportunity to push their liberal/socialistic agenda upon the American people. Patriotism is not only reflected upon the field of battle, for I have served in the military but have never fought in a foreign war but I love this nation with all of my heart, and my heart is greatly grieved by the unconstitutional attacks upon the American people by those who have used a crisis to create an even greater crisis. The enemy that we face is not the Wuhan pandemic, the enemy we face is tyranny and we see its ugly head rising up once more in our day. Will we be as our founding fathers, will we rise up in victory or shall we go quietly into the night? I share with you another quote from the days of the American Revolution and I pray that these sentiments still beat within many American hearts.

 “The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil constitution, are worth defending against all hazards: And it is our duty to defend them against all attacks.” … Samuel Adams.

I know not all in this forum are American, but surely you can also feel the love of your own country. There is nothing wrong with a Christian defending right and declaring something when it is wrong. When God sent forth his prophets unto Israel they didn't declare his words calling for repentance with glee but with hearts of grief desiring Israel to repent and turn back unto the Lord. Jeremiah is known as the crying or weeping prophet.

 

 

 

 

 

Patriotism has by used by many gentile governments to send  men to a Christ less eternity in carnal earthly warfare.

 

john14:1-4

14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. ² In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. ³ And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. ⁴ And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

 

Hebrews11:13-16

¹³ These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

¹⁴ For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

¹⁵ And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

¹⁶ But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

 

New King James Version
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

King James Bible
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Edited April 21, 2020 by vic66

[Clipper]

1 hour ago, Sower said:

 

Like JustPassingThru said above: "Patriotism," ...a profound "love" for our country, ...it has to be "experienced," ...just like any love, ...to be understood"...
You Clipper obviously, by your own words, have never experienced it, what it means to love your country.
The peace/freedoms/liberties you experience today is due to those American patriots, and Canadian patriots, and British, Australian etc etc etc.
If people were like you express were around back in the great wars, you, and previously Americans Canadians, would be speaking German or Japanese.
When a people, a group or a country full, go through a horrendous time of fighting for their lives, world wide, shedding their blood and giving up their lives.
for their country, with everybody doing his/her own part to protect the ones at home, they come out of it in the end with an overwhelming sense of national patriotism. Wouldn't want you in my fox hole.

 

You say, "Our allegiance, our patriotism, our nationalism, is to God"
God is my creator, my redeemer, my advocate, my savior. All my loyalties are derived through God.
And God says we are to be good stewards of all He has blessed/given us.
To infer a Patriotic Christian American can not/does not put Christ first and foremost is false.
I can not expect you to understand patriotism, based on what YOU have said above.
I wish you well where ever you move to.

The reason this country is great, Clipper, is God chose to bless this United States of America for His purposes.
Even for people like you who would just as soon find a better place.
Good luck!  

(Notice how everybody is trying to get into this country, and not out? Now why is that?

It's not that I don't have respect for the nation or the people who fought and died to preserve the values of liberal democracy, I do. Those who fought in World War II fought for the preservation of democracy and fought against tyranny. I would love to see that level of love for liberty again.

I believe that if someone should fight or die for a cause, it shouldn't be for a nation but rather for an ideology they believe in. The soldiers at Normandy were fighting against the forces of fascism in the name of the countries that represent democracy. Similarly, the soldiers at Stalingrad were fighting against the forces of fascism in the name of the countries that represent communism.

But then World War II ended and we saw people no longer fighting based on their ideology but on their flag. The Vietnam War, the Soviet-Afghan War, Operation Condor, all of these were no longer in defense of an ideology, but the expansion of a flag's influence. The US supported Diem despite the fact that he was a dictator, the USSR invaded Afghanistan and bombarded civilians and military targets alike, and the US killed a democratically elected socialist leader in Chile. In all three of these situations, there was a push for the expansion of a flag's influence, not for supporting a group that followed the same ideology or fighting a group that was a direct threat to its own.

Nations are usually founded or fractured based on ideological differences. Fight for the ideology you believe whether it's on a battlefield or the floor of Congress, don't fight for the flag.

We have seen a rise of populism worldwide, be it in Europe with nativist views growing stronger, or the United States with candidates such as Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders. I don't believe in fighting for either of their causes, either of their ideologies, so instead, I'm going to fight for the closest, Joe Biden (this portion ignores the idea of strategic voting and third parties in a First Past the Post system, FPTP is monumentally dumb, let's swap to IRV please). If Obama and Romney both had separate countries, and I lived in Romney's, I'd immigrate to Obama's as I agree with that flag's ideology more. But if Obama's rule changed, or my own ideology changed, I might consider immigrating somewhere else. There should be no allegiance to a flag or a candidate, I think you should follow where your personal ideology and philosophy takes you. If that sits you down near a flag then that's the group you're best suited for, but if the ideology the flag represents or you yourself change, then I see no reason not to abandon the flag.

 

Oh yeah, other countries have higher Net Migration rates per capita than the US. The US on average is ~30th in terms of NM/c worldwide.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Clipper

[BeauJangles]

16 minutes ago, JustPassingThru said:

I went back with my bride for two weeks to show her my "part" of America, ...drove over 2,000 miles,  even took her camping at 7,000 feet in the Sierra Nevada Mountains.  

If you took freeway 198 to get to the Sierras, that goes right through the middle of our city. And if that's the case, you didn't even drop in to say hi? Well! I'm hurt..! 

[Behold]

1 hour ago, Clipper said:

We do have "freedom from religion"

Clipper,

You do have freedom from religion. You have freedom from Heaven if you prefer...  God gave you that FREE WILL  right long before an amendment agreed with it.

God allows for the eternal rejection of Christ, as a final option, and thousands died today who executed that very Free Will choice.

But that amendment, is not created originally so that Christ hating Federal court judges can manipulate the very idea of the 10 Commandments posted on a rock somewhere in a park, or on a wall in a gym, as somehow trying to convert people to Christ.  That amendment is  not originally  designed  to be used to stop a high school football coach from having a word of prayer before he sends the boys unto the field to play for the championship...YET that is what has happened.  

The God haters, many are Democrats, want to abuse that amendment and try to keep God OUT, period.

Listen.  If you kill your mother, and you live in Florida, and they electrocute you... Its because the Law said...>"murder is a death sentence"...And that Law is taken from the 10 Commandments .

If you steal a car, the judge will give you some time to think about it in a place where everyone wears the same clothes.  And so, the reason the court says that Stealing is illegal, is because the Bible says the same thing, FIRST.

So, all  USA Legislative LAW is taken from God's original.... And to pretend that the bible and God Himself can be legislated out, when in fact the bible  runs the courts, is just the carnal fantasy of a fool.,    Psalm 14:1  ..... and there are a lot of them found about, and a lot of them are in Democrat party....but not all.

Some of them are in "social justice" ran Pulpits, and others are Marrying Homosexuals in their Church.  Some are discovered to be completely "politically corrected" Believers.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Behold

[Sower]

23 minutes ago, Clipper said:

I'm going to fight for the closest, Joe Biden

 

24 minutes ago, Clipper said:

If Obama and Romney both had separate countries, and I lived in Romney's, I'd immigrate to Obama's as I agree with that flag's ideology more.

I think you have said it all, Clipper. 
And now I understand.
Thank you for your reply.

 

 

 

[Clipper]

2 minutes ago, Sower said:

I think you have said it all, Clipper. 
And now I understand.
Thank you for your reply.

No problem.

The Big Tent is always open

[LadyKay]

2 hours ago, Behold said:

Yet, can you teach the bible as history and Jesus as historical in... 1st - 12th Grade?

Well let's look at this for a moment. Do you really want a public school teacher who may not even be a follower of Christ to teach the Bible? I myself am not so sure I would feel okay about that. I mean someone who is a non-believer should not be teaching the Bible especially to children. All kinds of bad things can come out of that.    Also since it is a public school, if you let the Bible in you are going to have to let other religious teachings in. Like it or not you have the right to be whatever religion you want to be in America or no religion at all. Do you want atheists coming into the school and teaching atheistems? People don't think about this stuff when they are wanting their own religious taught. But that is what will come through the door once you open it up.  

Edited April 21, 2020 by LadyKay

[Sower]

7 minutes ago, LadyKay said:

Well let's look at this for a moment. Do you really want a public school teacher who may not even be a follower of Christ to teach the Bible? I myself am not so sure I would feel okay about that. I mean someone who is a non-believer should not be teaching the Bible especially to children. All kinds of bad things can come out of that.    Also since it is a public school, if you let the Bible in you are going to have to let other religious teachings in. Like it or not you have the right to be whatever religion you want to be in America or no religion at all. Do you want atheists coming into the school and teaching atheistems? People don't think about this stuff when they are wanting their own religious taught. But that is what will come through the door once you open it up.  

A good reason why we and more and more other families teach our children our selves, at home.
Teaching at home as been going on for hundreds of years before the government took over.
Do Christian parents have the responsibility to train their children correctly, or the secular government with it's agenda?
Yes!   By God, as He says "raise up a child........etc etc etc. They are parent's responsibility, not the federal government!!
Not the secular government, even without religious subjects.
Fake history of America, same sex marriage, abortions provided, evolution, LBGTQ etc etc etc ......
Are we qualified to teach ourselves? By the TEA, NO. By our conscious, yes.
But we hold up God's teachings a priority to secular teachings.
All my children were home schooled, as are their children.
They all went to college, and advanced while some public HS graduates
had to take refresher courses to enter college. (Some just to learn reading) YES!!
We bought all the old public school text books (with the Christian influence) at the flea market penny's on the dollar,
when schools replaced them with the more modern sanitized versions.(back in early eighties)
Teaching our children at home as a family ministry was the best family decision my wife and I made.
It wasn't easy. But God provided the means, and the peace about our decision.
So to answer your question, Kay, NO!, I do not want a government school to teach my children, period.

 

[Behold]

49 minutes ago, LadyKay said:

Well let's look at this for a moment. Do you really want a public school teacher who may not even be a follower of Christ to teach the Bible?

Yes., exactly as i stated it.

As a HISTORY Book.  Not as you are misreading me to say, as a sermon or as a religious text.

Any Teacher with a suitable understanding of how to create a "course".... can  take the 3 Gospels, and make an easy history course out of these, without trying to reach the lost.

Just teach the NT.   Just Mark, Matthew, and Luke, as History.  The history of "early history" Middle East,  1st Century...    Explain that the Romans sometimes crucified... And if you are teaching 1-6, then omit the actual graphic explanation,  and just teach it as a punishment.   There is so much HISTORY there.  Do only "church people"' deserve it?   I don't think so.

The teacher could certainly do that as well as teaching....>"Jack and James went up the hill", or "Sally has a brand new girl friend".  Or "Gay and Kaye are  born this way"...

Pretty simple, actually.

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Behold