cha cha Posted April 24, 2020 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/26/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted April 24, 2020 I am a bit confused because in 1 John 4 vrs 12 it says no man has seen God but in genesis 32 vrs 30 it says Jacob saw God can you please explain this to me, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted April 25, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,244 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,494 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted April 25, 2020 1 hour ago, cha cha said: I am a bit confused because in 1 John 4 vrs 12 it says no man has seen God but in genesis 32 vrs 30 it says Jacob saw God can you please explain this to me, thanks. It is best understood in The Person of Jesus Who being God laid up His eternal Person of Spirit to the care of The Father and The Holy Spirit and was put into flesh- https://bible.org/article/why-god-became-man Quote theophany A temporary visible manifestation of the presence and glory of God. This may be in natural phenomena such as cloud or fire, in human form or in prophetic visionary experience. God is manifested in nature God's presence in storms, thunder and lightning Ps 18:7-15; Ex 19:16 See also Ex 20:18; Job 37:5; Ps 29:3-9; 77:18; 97:4; Isa 30:27-33; Amos 1:2; Hab 3:11; Zech 9:14; Rev 11:19 God's presence in volcanic phenomena Ex 19:18 See also Isa 30:33 God's presence in earthquakes Isa 29:5-6 See also Judg 5:4-5; Ps 77:18; Hab 3:6 Specific phenomena associated with the presence of God Fire signifies God's presence Ex 3:2 Fire in particular represents the purity, holiness and unapproachability of God. See also Ex 13:21; 19:18; 24:17; Lev 9:24; Num 14:14; Deut 4:11-12; 5:4,22-26; Judg 13:20-22; Ps 97:3; Joel 2:30 Smoke signifies God's presence Ex 19:18 See also Ex 20:18; Ps 144:5; Isa 6:4; 30:27; Joel 2:30; Rev 15:8 Cloud signifies God's presence Ex 16:10 Cloud and smoke convey the mystery and transcendence of God. See also Ex 13:21 God speaks to Moses from the cloud: Ex 19:9; 24:15-16; 33:9; 34:5; Deut 31:15 Lev 16:2; Num 9:15-22; 14:14; 1 Kings 8:10-11; Ezek 1:4; 10:3-4 The transfiguration of Jesus Christ: Matt 17:5 pp Mark 9:7 pp Luke 9:34-35 Rev 14:14-16 God is manifested in human or angelic form Gen 16:7-13 See also Gen 18:1-22; 32:24-30; Josh 5:13-15 God appears in prophetic visions God appears on a throne Isa 6:1 John interprets this verse to refer to Jesus Christ (John 12:41). See also Ezek 1:26; 10:1; Dan 7:9; Rev 4:2; 20:11 God appears attended by angels and other heavenly beings Isa 6:2; Ezek 1:5-18; 10:9-13; Rev 4:6-11 God appears like, or with, precious stones Ex 24:10; Ezek 1:26; Rev 4:3 of Bible Themes, Scripture index copyright Martin H. Manser, 2009. As Editor, Martin Manser wishes to thank all those who compiled or edited the ‘NIV Thematic Study Bible,’ on which this work is based._ God does this through His created element for God Himself 'IS' without begin or end and you cannot fit that which has no bounds into that which is created with bounds yet in order to coddle His creation from the destruction of the fulness of Himself... God had to protect beginning from His Fulness as the miracle of existence in the infinite is fact communicated by the very thing created... let me give you what we know now as God has allowed increase in knowledge 1900's on; we have experienced the electron microscope and the mega telescope in Space and you know what the difference to God of the two are >nothing< for there is no end to small or large in Spirit makeup of our God... that is what is truly exciting about His Persons Father, Son and Holy Spirit they desire us to journey without end in the glory of Their Persons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted April 25, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,178 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,906 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 25, 2020 2 hours ago, cha cha said: I am a bit confused because in 1 John 4 vrs 12 it says no man has seen God but in genesis 32 vrs 30 it says Jacob saw God can you please explain this to me, thanks. cha, to me it is speaking only of the Father that no one has seen... Jesus tells us John 6:46 much the same thing in a different way. John 6:45-47 Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. 46 "Not that any man has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 NASB It says to me (and I'm no Greek scholar) that sometimes the word God is referring to the Father, and sometimes it's referring to Jesus or the Holy Spirit... Jesus himself tells us that no man has ever seen the Father... Yet several places we are told that people in the days of Moses and before saw the God of Israel or Yahweh... John also tells us that Jesus existed in the form of God before he was a man and it is my thoughts that Jesus himself was/is Yahweh but not the Father. When the group of Jews were talking with him about knowing Abraham he replied to them that before Abraham was,,, I Am... which is what Yahweh told Moses to call him when the Hebrews in Egypt asked him who sent him... Jesus tells us that he wants us to be one with him as he is with the Father and we should understand that he is not asking us to become Jesus.... also as we become one with our wives, and if you've been married for 50 years as we have that takes on a special meaning... It makes it all fit together without being confusing.... in another place it tells us that all things come from the Father but come through Jesus and tells us that Jesus actually created the Universe in the form that John calls the Word.... We in Christianity have this pre conceived idea of what the word god means but it would not be the same for the people writing or reading the Bible as it was written Hebrew has no Capitals and the Greek Bible I am told is written in all capital letters so technically there is no difference in God and god except for the context that the translators pick out. god is referred to as Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit along with Moloch, Baal and any number of pagan gods so we must figure out which one it is referring to that goes along with the rest of scripture.... No one has seen the Father except who came from the Father.... I personaly wish we would not even use the word for it can so confuse subjects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appy Posted April 25, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 23 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,864 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 2,596 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 25, 2020 It is not that those in the Old testament actually saw the face of God for we can not see God with human eyes in the physical world, because He is spirit and does not have a body. God is in heaven and we are of the earth. God communicates with us in ways that we can see and understand with the human mind and body so to speak. There is a word that is called theophany and comes from Greek words “theos” meaning God and phainesthai meaning “to appear” or “to be manifest” The point that is being made isn't that no one in the Old Testament saw a theophany, but that because of the fact that we are creation and also have a sin nature we cannot lay eyes on a perfectly Holy God in ALL of His Glory, because in doing so would only bring about our death. In the New testament God revealed Himself in the incarnation of His Son Jesus. Jesus is the exact representation of God's likeness, essence and character. God has made Himself known to us through His Son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted April 25, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,178 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,906 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 25, 2020 Ex 24:9-11 9 Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10 and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. 11 Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they beheld God, and they ate and drank. NASB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Von Posted December 16, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1,265 Topics Per Day: 0.44 Content Count: 2,637 Content Per Day: 0.92 Reputation: 760 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/04/1972 Share Posted December 16, 2021 On 4/24/2020 at 8:01 PM, cha cha said: I am a bit confused because in 1 John 4 vrs 12 it says no man has seen God but in genesis 32 vrs 30 it says Jacob saw God can you please explain this to me, thanks. Jacob saw the angel of the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAZARD Posted December 16, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 6,830 Content Per Day: 0.84 Reputation: 3,570 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/16/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 16, 2021 On 4/25/2020 at 9:01 AM, cha cha said: I am a bit confused because in 1 John 4 vrs 12 it says no man has seen God but in genesis 32 vrs 30 it says Jacob saw God can you please explain this to me, thanks. John 6:46, Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Greek, horao, meaning to comprehend fully or understand with the mind; to see truth fully. It is used in this sense in many places (John 8:38; 14:9; 15:24; 1 John 3:6). Greek, horato, like our English seen, means to see with the eyes and also see with the mind. That it means here to comprehend fully or understand is clear from the fact that many men have seen God with the eyes (Gen. 18:2, 33; 32:24-30; Ex. 24:10; 33:11; Josh. 5:13; Isa. 6; Ez. 1:26-28; Dan. 7:9-14; 10:5-6; Acts 7:56-59; Rev. 4:2-5; 5:1-7). And the invisibility of God, GR. Aoratos invisible. The word really means not visible, not in sight, unseen, concealed. Invisibility consists more of distance than substance. Cities or other material objects cannot be seen even30 miles away. At this distance they are invisible. Objects concealed are invisible. Anything out of eyesight is invisible. God angels, and other spirit beings are thus invisible. They can appear or disappear at will. They have been seen with the natural eyes many times, proving that invisibility must be understood with them as with all other invisible things that can become visible. 14, And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? [We do not fall on our faces and worship angels!] 15, And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so. [And angels do not command men to take off their shoes from off their feet because the ground they stand on is holy ground.] Rev. 22:8-9, 8, And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. 9, Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. INVISIBILITY OF GOD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted December 17, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 774 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,949 Content Per Day: 3.06 Reputation: 1,983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted December 17, 2021 (edited) God appeared as burning bushes to Moses, doesnt mean God at His Throne is a burning bushes, Jacob wrestle with God, it doesnt mean God is a man. God appeared on Mt. Sinai doesnt mean He sitteth on that mountain. Edited December 17, 2021 by R. Hartono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted December 17, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,178 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,906 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 17, 2021 The God of Israel in the Old Testament is Yahweh. lots of men saw Yahweh, but no man has seen the Father. Meaning...... Yahweh is not the Father. Yahweh told Moses to tell those he was setting free that I AM sent him.... John tells us that Jesus existed in the form of God before he sat that aside to be a man. Jesus told a bunch of Jews when discussing how he knew Abraham; told them that "before Abraham was I AM." Also the night that Judas betrayed him when he asked who they were looking for he told them, "I AM" and when he said that (more than once) those who were coming for him would fall down. Jesus in his preincarnation state was Yahweh. And he prayed and asked and received the glory he had before he became a man. Jesus actually introduced us to the Father because before he came we only knew of him (Yahweh). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted December 17, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted December 17, 2021 On 4/24/2020 at 7:01 PM, cha cha said: I am a bit confused because in 1 John 4 vrs 12 it says no man has seen God but in genesis 32 vrs 30 it says Jacob saw God can you please explain this to me, thanks. No one has seen God the Father. In the Hebrew scriptures, God the Son interacted with people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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