THE GOSPEL OF THE CIRCUMCISION IS FOR ISRAEL

[Retrobyter]

14 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

This is a serious deception that is being brought on this thread....it's leading to the strong delusion.....and not many left here to defend the gospel against it since many have been "moderated" out of existence.

Shalom, Heleadethme.

Yes, I was about to get started on that. I believe SOLELY in the Gospel of the Kingdom, and that Gospel was merely MODIFIED by Paul to INCLUDE the "death, burial, and resurrection of our Master, Yeshua` the Messiah of God." But, let's be clear: What is it that you feel is being "'moderated' out of existence?" 

 

[Justin Adams]

The OP is completely incorrect. The apostle says all believers are Abraham's seed and therefore may be called ISRAEL. He also speaks of the 'circumcision not made with hands'. He was speaking to gentiles, Jews and the local pagans.

Too many anti semitic inferences have been made down thru the ages. And even here I see a benign inference to much horrible theology of our so-called bastions of the faith that were openly anti Jew.

[Retrobyter]

22 hours ago, douge said:

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

The new covenant is future, when Christ comes again. 

Jeremiah 31:34 says partly for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Israel will be forgiven of all iniquity at that time. The new testament sacrifice of Christ provides the means to cleanse and forgive their sins.

As to sins not being blotted out:

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Shalom, douge.

Let's start with an example:

Have you ever seen a cloud positioned at the top of a mountain, and drove the road leading up the mountain to the top?

As you're winding up the mountainside, WHEN did you enter into the cloud? Did you notice? At first, you notice almost nothing different. A little dew upon the tree leaves, a fresh green to the grass, and a little sprinkle on the windshield are all that might be different. Later on, you will notice that there's a slight fog that wasn't there lower on the mountainside. The fog may grow thicker for a time, but then it begins to thin out. As you approach the top of the mountain, you may even experience LESS signs of water vapor as the fog continues to thin and vanish. At the top of the mountain, you get out and look around. You'll notice that now, you're looking DOWN at the cloud below and above you are clear, sunny skies!

You are pushing off the conversion of the Jews into the distant future, expecting God to "forgive their iniquity" and "remember their sin no more" when our Lord Yeshua` returns. But, I'm telling you, LOOK AROUND! They are ALREADY beginning to come to the Lord! To accept Yeshua` as their future King and apply the Sacrifice that He made for their sins does NOT have to be when our Lord returns! They are ALREADY returning to YHWH and accepting His choice for their King, Yeshua` His Messiah!

[Eddy Crocker]

14 hours ago, douge said:

Sorry, but no, this was according to Peter a fulfillment of Joel 2:29. This was interrupted however by the rejection of Israel and our dispensation of grace.

It’s one gospel whether Peter says it or Paul says it. I believe your stumbling over your trying to dissect it too much. It doesn’t matter about a physical Jew or Physical Gentiles. We are all one church and one body through Christ.  

Paul says your uncircumcision is made to be circumcision through and by faith. It’s no longer the circumcision done with the works done by our hands that God accepts but it the circumcision of the heart by and through faith that counts in his eyes. 

[DeighAnn]

On 6/26/2020 at 8:28 PM, choir loft said:

 One must devote at least a modicum of time to study what the Old Testament says about the LAW in order to understand what happened when Jesus died on the cross.

Ah, the missing piece from so many a study it would seem.  I know for sure who put up for sale "you don't need to study the OT" but don't understand why a  Christian would buy into it especially when JESUS askes the very question "Have you not read?" (so you can know for sure that question is going to be asked) or makes the statement "it is written".  

[Justin Adams]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

Ah, the missing piece from so many a study it would seem.  I know for sure who put up for sale "you don't need to study the OT" but don't understand why a  Christian would buy into it especially when JESUS askes the very question "Have you not read?" (so you can know for sure that question is going to be asked) or makes the statement "it is written".  

He changeth not. The Tanakh is the bedrock of the new testament. So much is alluded to in the 'OT' and many other books that the so-called reformation did away with. Study the Eastern Canon and the other books to get a really clear understanding of what the apostles and Yeshua read and understood.

http://dustoffthebible.com/Blog-archive/2019/09/17/does-the-new-testament-or-jesus-quote-from-the-apocryphal-books/

The above is well worth reading as well.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Justin Adams

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Justin Adams said:

The OP is completely incorrect. The apostle says all believers are Abraham's seed and therefore may be called ISRAEL. He also speaks of the 'circumcision not made with hands'. He was speaking to gentiles, Jews and the local pagans.

Too many anti semitic inferences have been made down thru the ages. And even here I see a benign inference to much horrible theology of our so-called bastions of the faith that were openly anti Jew.

Just to add a little more detail for someone who may need a quick refresher

What was the 1st Prophecy? 
Genesis 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise His heel.

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
 

And like you said, it is still put forth by ever so many Christians that the Jews had Him crucified.  Maybe if we were to FOLLOW the teachings of the churches CHRIST approved of and teach 

Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

 

Revelation 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

we could get somewhere in Gods Truth.  

 

[Eddy Crocker]

25 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Ah, the missing piece from so many a study it would seem.  I know for sure who put up for sale "you don't need to study the OT" but don't understand why a  Christian would buy into it especially when JESUS askes the very question "Have you not read?" (so you can know for sure that question is going to be asked) or makes the statement "it is written".  

You’re right DeighAnn. Jesus whenever he preached uses witnesses to support what he was trying to teach. His audience was familiar with the Old Testament or Covenant. That’s all they had back then. Scripture tells us that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established. 
Luke 24:27,

And having begun from Moses and from all the Prophets, He interpreted to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

Isaiah 8:20,

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

We cannot get the proper context or understanding of what Jesus did and fulfilled if we don’t read from the law and the testimony of the prophets. This is no different than trying to get a proper understanding of a movie by going into the middle of the movie to try to get the true meaning and point the movie is trying to make.
 

This is why allot of Christians are devoid of proper understanding because they are taught we are a New Testament Church we don’t need to get so caught up into the Old Testament. This is why scripture says....,

 

Hosea 4:6

⁶ My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

[DeighAnn]

7 minutes ago, Eddy Crocker said:

You’re right DeighAnn. Jesus whenever he preached uses witnesses to support what he was trying to teach. His audience was familiar with the Old Testament or Covenant. That’s all they had back then. Scripture tells us that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established. 
Luke 24:27,

And having begun from Moses and from all the Prophets, He interpreted to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

Isaiah 8:20,

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

We cannot get the proper context or understanding of what Jesus did and fulfilled if we don’t read from the law and the testimony of the prophets. This is no different than trying to get a proper understanding of a movie by going into the middle of the movie to try to get the true meaning and point the movie is trying to make.
 

This is why allot of Christians are devoid of proper understanding because they are taught we are a New Testament Church we don’t need to get so caught up into the Old Testament. This is why scripture says....,

 

Hosea 4:6

⁶ My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

I couldn't agree with you more.  It doesn't take long to tell whos knowledge comes from just commentaries, or  just NT, or even just the traditions of man.  Not many seem to realize the difference between an evangelist and a teacher either.  The Word for too long has been given from the evangelist point of "God is love, are you saved?" only and the realization that we are in the final generation in which the whole gospel armor will be required to Stand, Overcome and endure to the end is in play.  

The New Testament is (I am going with bunches of it having tried "much, a lot and some") like the "cliff notes" for the Old, and for me at least, much of Gods wisdom is found in the details, and many of those details are found in the Old. 

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, Justin Adams said:

He changeth not. The Tanakh is the bedrock of the new testament. So much is alluded to in the 'OT' and many other books that the so-called reformation did away with. Stufy the Eastern Canon and the other books to get a realy clear understanding of what the apostles and Yeshua read and understood.

http://dustoffthebible.com/Blog-archive/2019/09/17/does-the-new-testament-or-jesus-quote-from-the-apocryphal-books/

The above is well worth reading as well.

Perhaps we could say that the new testament is the old testament REVEALED.