At what point should we refuse a mandatory vaccine or mark?

[dad2]

44 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Well my own understanding of revelation is that the full mark only comes in after the rapture but that is because it fails to be implemented while the saints are still here and resisting. The problem is that the saints actually do need to resist it. I am sure that this resistance will contribute to the events of the fifth seal quite a bit. What I find so discouraging is that the saints do not seem up to the battle.

Or maybe the timing does not depend on what the saints do.

[BeauJangles]

1 hour ago, dad2 said:

Keep the intelligent, on topic replies coming.

What? Oh. The odd comma placement totally misconstrued your statement. I get you now. Sure, that's not a problem. When do the intelligent ones from you begin? So far it's just not happening. Nevermind. Forget I asked that question. I got bored again. 

G'nite... 

Edited May 20, 2020 by BeauJangles

[Logostician]

I'm not seeing the connection between vaccinations and the mark of the beast at all.  Vaccinations are standard medical tools to fight diseases, and have been for decades.  The polio vaccinations, that most older citizens received as children, actually left a circular mark on the upper arm, but few worried about any association with Satan.  Many more vaccinations for many other diseases have been developed and used successfully to prevent diseases.  None were associated with Satan, but rather viewed as gifts from God.  We have had hundreds, if not thousands of vaccines.  Surely we can't call all of them marks of the beast.  I also tend to think that Satan is more inclined to cause diseases rather than heal them.  Satan maligns.  That's what he does.  Jesus is the one that heals.  That's what he does.

I do not like making anything mandatory for adults.  I prefer freedom.  When governments force people out of their jobs, and imprison them in their own homes, that's wrong.  If and when a vaccine is developed for Corona virus it will release us from the current government bondage we are being subjected to.  Right now our churches have been banned from assembling and meeting.  This is a field day for Satan.  A vaccine will eliminate the Corona virus excuse for government sanctioned persecution of Christians.  Far from getting a vaccination to comply with a government mandate, I will be getting a vaccination as soon as possible to restore, rebuild, and strengthen the church of Jesus Christ.  Other sane adults will do the same out of prudence, rather than submission to secular government.

The issue of opposition to mandatory vaccinations for children in schools has only become an issue in very recent times.  Prior to this society was aware that protecting children from deadly diseases was a good thing, and vaccines were mandatory for schoolchildren in most jurisdictions. Some of these recent objections have come from Christians who beleive that any medical procedure defies faith in God.  I disagree with them and beleive that God gave us the ability to heal and is pleased when we use it to heal as Christ did. I think most of the objections come from the "all natural" secularists/atheists.  I think children should be protected, in life threatening situations, when parents are negligent in protecting them.  The vast majority of schoolchildren get required vaccinations right now.  Only a very small minority don't.  A corona virus vaccination should be treated the same way.

In summary a corona virus vaccine would be a powerful weapon against Satan by freeing an imprisoned world, especially the Christian Church and healing human misery, both mental and physical.  It is not a weapon of Satan.  It is a weapon against him.

Mat 12:26

And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself.  How then shall his kingdom stand?

Satan does not cast out demons, and he does not create vaccines, because both of these things work against him.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Logostician
Summary

[dad2]

1 hour ago, BeauJangles said:

What? Oh. The odd comma placement totally misconstrued your statement. I get you now. Sure, that's not a problem. When do the intelligent ones from you begin? So far it's just not happening. Nevermind. Forget I asked that question. I got bored again. 

G'nite... 

Thanks for the compliments on the OP topic.

[Guest]

I will do as told. I believe our government will act in our best interests. The rest i leave to God. 

[dad2]

2 hours ago, Logostician said:

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I'm not seeing the connection between vaccinations and the mark of the beast at all. 

Thanks for admitting you need help. The connection is that when a government enforces a mandatory intrusion into the body that is required for travel and commerce, this has similarities to the famous mark of the beast.

 

 

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Vaccinations are standard medical tools to fight diseases, and have been for decades

 

So are abortions. But other procedures usually do not involve the whole world. They would not involve governments paying their people to stay home. The would not involve it being illegal to go to the summer home or visit the grand kids...etc etc.

 

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I do not like making anything mandatory for adults.  I prefer freedom.  When governments force people out of their jobs, and imprison them in their own homes, that's wrong.  If and when a vaccine is developed for Corona virus it will release us from the current government bondage we are being subjected to. 

Like the 'war to end all wars' ended war? Like the income taxes were temporary? Like politician's promises are true? Many people suspect that it will just get the government's  proboscis wet.

 

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  A vaccine will eliminate the Corona virus excuse for government sanctioned persecution of Christians. 

Will it really? Apparently there will be some sort of a new reality in which things will never return to 'normal'. Who knows what other wars or diseases will come along on cue that will require even more restrictions? If a virus that killed mostly old people and only a small percentage of people warranted a world wide lock down, what would an actual bio weapon that could kill billions warrant?

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I will be getting a vaccination as soon as possible to restore, rebuild, and strengthen the church of Jesus Christ.

That is fair enough. Now if others in your church felt differently, I am not sure your church would be strengthened. (unless you consider shunning and reporting everyone with a different opinion in your church a strengthening)

 

 

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The issue of opposition to mandatory vaccinations for children in schools has only become an issue in very recent times.  Prior to this society was aware that protecting children from deadly diseases was a good thing,

People in older times also thought it was a good thing not to kill babies and start sex change procedures and drugs for young people.

 

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Some of these recent objections have come from Christians who beleive that any medical procedure defies faith in God.  I disagree with them and beleive that God gave us the ability to heal and is pleased when we use it to heal as Christ did. I think most of the objections come from the "all natural" secularists/atheists.  I think children should be protected, in life threatening situations, when parents are negligent in protecting them.  The vast majority of schoolchildren get required vaccinations right now.  Only a very small minority don't.  A corona virus vaccination should be treated the same way.

If the so called protection comes with an implant, or mark or surveillance technology, and requires reporting family and friends some people might ask if the so called cure is worse than the disease. Vaccines are debatable. When you force one side of a debate on all people, you might get some pushback.

 

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In summary a corona virus vaccine would be a powerful weapon against Satan by freeing an imprisoned world,

That depends on what the so called freedom entails. If it comes with a mark, a forced needle, restrictions on freedoms and such strings attached, some people might call it slavery.

 

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Satan does not cast out demons, and he does not create vaccines, because both of these things work against him.

I see. So who kills the millions of babies each year God, or the medical system? Who made the swine flu vaccination, God? You seem to think that blind faith in a murdering medical system and evil governments is the highest christian duty. Good luck with that.

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by dad2

[dad2]

3 hours ago, Traveler said:

You have placed a bit too much on per-destination. If the saint does not resist and accepts the Mark, even if only in an early roll out attempt, then they are not going to be partaking in the rapture anyway, are they ?

If the Rapture comes before the mark it won't be saints that need to worry about it.

[Justin Adams]

22 minutes ago, Addy said:

People don't seem to realize that this TRACING stuff is probably ALREADY in most of the mobile equipment they own... i-phones... computers... tablets... and maybe even tv's.... and then you have your pets who are also chipped... and your vehicles with GPS.... The BIG EYE is everywhere... LOL

We have been slowly "groomed" for years to think NOTHING of things we would have ONCE been "mortified" about... It's called conditioning.

Who even has a land line anymore???  it's all be replaced by TRACEABLE technology... This is NOT new... but perhaps this is the season of revelation and reality.

It is called "the boiled frog syndrome".

[Dennis1209]

On 5/18/2020 at 12:52 PM, dad2 said:

Apparently many countries will make a vaccine mandatory. This may come with bio metric or technological enforcement some say. I do not think this will be the mark of the beast, but it certainly will be at least a big step forward toward it. My inclination would be to refuse any such mandatory intrusions into the body by government if at all possible legally. However, one must be careful about breaking the law. Generally, if travelling and forced to receive a vaccination, I would probably get the shot. 

At what point should a believer refuse a mark even at the cost of possible prison or death? I guess when the time comes that the mark of the beast is here, it will be obvious.

Consider: W.H.O. [pun intended] and where are the components of this vaccine coming from, and who is making it [China]? What globalist non government organizations [NGO'S] and peoples are using their wealth and influence in the name of humanity pushing this? Who controls the W.H.O [World Health Organization], not to mention the C.D.C.? A little research and the picture becomes quite clear of what's going on; it's all about people control.

One example: There's no doubt Bill Gates is a globalist and New World Order proponent leading the charge for global vaccination. Globalists want a global population reduction of 95% for global sustainability and get rid of the 'weeds'. Father like son: It's no secret Bill Gates Sr., little Bill's father was a follower of Margaret Sanger, as his son is. At one time Gates Sr. was head of Planned Parenthood. His son is following his ideals and foot steps. If you read what Gates Junior has personally stated that needs to be done in the name of "humanity", leaves little doubt of his true ideology and intentions. The Bill & Melinda Gates foundation = Evil. In Melinda's own words, read about her struggles with her professed Catholic faith. 

And not to mention, all the former safety procedures, protocols and steps being cut to rush a vaccination to market. This could very well be a prelude of the coming mark of the Beast; as 'they' are pushing severe restrictions on those whom reject this vaccination. How will everyone be monitored to ensure they are immunized before entering a sports event, convention, restaurant, government building, airplane, another country, etc.? Modern personal bio-metric technology most likely.

The mark of the Beast will be unmistakable; and in my pretribulationist view point, Christian's will not be here to witness it. This mark of the Beast will be a contract with the devil; requiring allegiance, commitment, dedication and worship of him.

[other one]

I'm 73 years old today....    and I have heard all my life that this is leading to the mark and that's leading to the mark and my grandfather thought the social security number was part of the mark,   credit cards were going to end up the mark....      and had I avoided all these things life would have been much more difficult...    and my credit card makes me an average of about $500 a year cash back and I don't have to carry a checkbook or enough cash to be killed for....

Too many people are getting way too carried away about the mark today....       first of all, Jesus says we can't be snatched out of the Father's hand so none of this  is going to sneak up on us, but it is the Holy Spirit that will tell us and not all our prognosticating.   and when that time comes we will all.....   "ALL"  get the same message.     And there are many other things to have to live through before that time...     We need to focus on "Do we have the Holy Spirit" to get us through the things coming....   instead of guessing what this is and what that is going to be.     All it takes to defeat the devil in all this is one word....    "NO"         No I won't worship you and no I won't wear your mark of submission and my God will not let you trick me or force it on me.     All it will take is that simple word.    "no"    it doesn't even need to be said loudly....   just a simple no.