What is the identity of the Woman of Rev. ch. 12? That of the child snatched away in vs. 5?

[BibleReader]

If Jesus second coming is referred to in Revelation 12:5, why is he described as being born of a woman?  Thanks in advance.  

[Uriah]

1 hour ago, BibleReader said:

If Jesus second coming is referred to in Revelation 12:5, why is he described as being born of a woman?  Thanks in advance.  

And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Not in this specific verse. In fact the whole chapter is about the woman.  Jesus IS referred to indirectly through this verse. Yet this is a very unique passage. The woman is no doubt Israel. More specifically, I think she is a remnant of sorts and "the virgin daughter of Zion" in the O.T. phrases. It is a history AND a prophecy as I am seeing it.

I can glean a situation from it where Israelis are forced out of their places by the land being divided and living in tents/refugee camps for a time until Jesus comes and delivers them. And believers will also be outpouring support until then. It is like a play on a stage where it is meant to remind us of their flight from Egypt. Living in tents and fed by the orders of God through those acting to sustain them.

[BibleReader]

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Not in this specific verse. In fact the whole chapter is about the woman.  Jesus IS referred to indirectly through this verse. Yet this is a very unique passage. The woman is no doubt Israel. More specifically, I think she is a remnant of sorts and "the virgin daughter of Zion" in the O.T. phrases. It is a history AND a prophecy as I am seeing it.

I can glean a situation from it where Israelis are forced out of their places by the land being divided and living in tents/refugee camps for a time until Jesus comes and delivers them. And believers will also be outpouring support until then. It is like a play on a stage where it is meant to remind us of their flight from Egypt. Living in tents and fed by the orders of God through those acting to sustain them.

Thanks.  So the woman is Israel (it's what I suspected actually).  Who is the child of Vs. 5?  

[Uriah]

41 minutes ago, BibleReader said:

Thanks.  So the woman is Israel (it's what I suspected actually).  Who is the child of Vs. 5?  

Jesus..."will rule all nations with a rod of iron." 

[missmuffet]

8 hours ago, BibleReader said:

If Jesus second coming is referred to in Revelation 12:5, why is he described as being born of a woman?  Thanks in advance.  

The woman is Israel and the child is Christ. 

[BibleReader]

Thank you both.  Now why would the woman (Israel) be giving birth to Jesus in the vision of Revelation 12?

Thanks in advance.

[Last Daze]

18 minutes ago, BibleReader said:

Thank you both.  Now why would the woman (Israel) be giving birth to Jesus in the vision of Revelation 12?

I see Revelation 12 as the two signs of the long-standing conflict that began in Genesis 3.  The sign of the woman is God's plan to regain dominion over the earth, that was lost in the fall, through Jesus.  The sign of the dragon reflects Satan's opposition through the seven oppressive kingdoms.  Satan failed to stop the Messiah so now his plan revolves around destroying both Israel and those who hold to the testimony of Jesus, leading us into Chapter 13 which reveals the "how."

[WilliamL]

Excerpts from my blog post on Rev. 12 here: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1053-revelation-12/

1) When. Jesus told John,

Rev. 1:19 Write the things which you have seen [past], and the things which are [present], and the things which will take place after these [future].

“The things seen” (by John up to that point) are told in Rev. 1:9-20. “The things which are” – that is, that were taking place at the time of John’s visions – are told in Rev. 2-3, when Jesus tells each of the 7 churches, “I know your works.” Then, beginning in Rev. 4:1, we find:

Rev. 4:1 After this I looked and beheld a door standing open in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me, saying, Come up here, and I will show thee things which must take place after these [things].

Everything John was shown from Rev. 4:1 onward is future from – “after” – his day. This includes everything in chapter 12. The birth and ascent of the Manchild that John saw in Rev. 12:5 are future; although the birth and ascent of Jesus was of the same pattern and type. Jesus himself tells us who the Manchild shall be:

Rev. 2:26-27 The one overcoming, and the one keeping my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: and he shall shepherd/pastor them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to pieces: as I also have received from my Father.

Rev. 12:5 She bore a Manchild, who is about to shepherd/pastor all nations with a rod of iron.

Rev. 12:7-11 then reveals that this Manchild, a collective body, the elect-of-the-elect overcomers, will participate in the casting down of Satan and his angels out of heaven:

Rev. 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the Dragon [Satan]… 11 And they overcame him [Satan] by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their souls unto death.

The “they” of verse 11 cannot refer to any non-human angels, only to men, that is, to those ascended overcomers of the Manchild(ren) cleansed and empowered by the blood of Jesus.

These events take place “at the time of the end” (Dan. 11:40), the “time Michael shall stand up” (Dan. 12:1; Rev. 12:7), just prior to and during “a time of trouble such as never was” (Dan. 12:1; Matt. 24:21), that is, the Great Tribulation.

2) Who is the Woman? Like the Manchild, the Woman-with-child is a mystical body. Not the Church, which is a Virgin Bride. And not the race of Israel, which is flesh-and-blood.

 

Western left-brain Protestant Christianity has largely ignored any concept of the Feminine Divine, even though the Adamic race was “made in Elohim’s image, male and female.” Gen. 1:27 Catholicism has carnalized the Feminine Divine into the person of Mary. Only mystical Judaism, and to some extent mystical Christianity, have spoken of the Feminine Divine.

Hebraic teachings of old say that one of the attributes of the One God is the emotional desire to form, gestate, bring forth and nurture living creatures. This tradition also says that when Adam and Eve were driven out of God’s garden into the earthly wilderness, this Divine Feminine either went with them or regularly visited them, in order to nurture her children as any mother would. The most well-known name for her is the Shekhinah, the feminine Presence/form of the Divine.

This mystical Woman/mother – emotionally bound to the nurturing of her children, and to their upbringing in wisdom, righteousness, and maturity – is spoken of in Ezekiel:

Ezek. 19:2, 10-13 What is thy mother? A lioness: she lay down among lions, she nourished her whelps among young lions. … Thy mother is like a vine in thy blood [the place of the soul, Lev. 17:11], planted by the waters: she was fruitful and full of branches by reason of many waters. And she had strong rods for the scepters of them that bore rule, and her stature was exalted among the thick branches, and she appeared in her height with the multitude of her branches. But she was plucked up in fury, she was cast down to the ground, and the east wind dried up her fruit: her strong rods were broken and withered; the fire consumed them. And now she is planted in the wilderness, in a dry and thirsty ground.

In Revelation 12’s account of the End Times, the Woman again goes “into the wilderness” when her offspring are driven out once more. Rev. 12:6, 14-17; Luke 21:36

[R. Hartono]

 

[WilliamL]

On 5/27/2020 at 12:02 PM, WilliamL said:

Rev. 4:1 After this I looked and beheld a door standing open in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me, saying, Come up here, and I will show thee things which must take place after these [things].

Everything John was shown from Rev. 4:1 onward is future from – “after” – his day. This includes everything in chapter 12. The birth and ascent of the Manchild that John saw in Rev. 12:5 are future; although the birth and ascent of Jesus was of the same pattern and type. Jesus himself tells us who the Manchild shall be:

The above two posts deny these things, and claim that Rev. 12 is historical, not future; not "after" the time of John. When one begins to go down that road, inserting one's own presumptions into the testimony to deny its stated meaning, then the testimony of the prophecy becomes open to all kinds of rabbit trails.

There is absolutely no mention in the text of Rev. 12 (nor of any other passage following Rev. 4:1) that it is to be taken historically. Don't believe anyone who tells you otherwise.

 

Edited June 1, 2020 by WilliamL