Are the U.S. and Trump the Ones Restraining?

[Diaste]

15 hours ago, WilliamL said:

 

But the question is, who is both the it and the he restraining? THAT is what Paul obscured. If this is to be Church and Spirit, Paul would have simply said so, no bones about it, because it would have been a faith-building statement.

"Do you not remember that I told you these things while I was still with you? And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival."

This the is 'it' and 'he' you refer to? If not, pardon the assumption. If it is then there is a problem with the translation.

On the surface, since the restraining refers to Jesus coming the 'it' is the coming of Jesus. 

The Greek says, "Just wait til he emerges on the world stage from the middle." This iterates the thesis; "for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

 

[Diaste]

On 7/7/2020 at 4:49 AM, SONshine said:

The restraining here refers to Satan being restrained by Michael.  Read verse 6 in 2 Thessalonians.  So if the subject in verses 6 is Satan, then the object in verse 7 must be Satan’s position in the heavenlies from which he will be cast down by Michael. (Rev. 12:7-9).

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, (This is the context throughout)

That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. (The Day of Christ extant is the subject.)

Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], (Again the Day of Christ.)

except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (Two events will occur before the Day of Christ will come.)

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 

And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. (Following the progression of the subject, to the events that must occur before the Day of Christ, this can only be the falling away and the revealing that is withholding. Notice it's 'what withholds'. Paul is saying "the rebellion and revealing must happen before Christ is revealed at the proper time". The same thing he just said in v 2-3.)

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way. (Check out the Greek for the highlighted portion. It will read,"Merely wait till he emerges on the world stage in the middle." This is the A of D and a refutation of the idea it's the beast being restrained.)

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, (That the above refers to the A of D is confirmed here. The revealing of the wicked one occurs at the A of D. This revealing is a repeated theme from verse 3. Paul is telling us this is the beast and he will be revealed before the Return and the Gathering.)

whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"

There is no justification for changing from the Day of Christ and the gathering and the evidence of v 2-3 concerning the order 'rebellion and revealing before the Return and the Gathering', to some story about Micheal or the church holding back the beast or evil or whatnot.  

[WilliamL]

On 7/7/2020 at 4:12 AM, Diaste said:

"Do you not remember that I told you these things while I was still with you? And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival."

This the is 'it' and 'he' you refer to? If not, pardon the assumption. If it is then there is a problem with the translation.

All explained in the first post, of which this is a part. No problem at all with the translation, this is the accurate Greek meaning:

2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now you know the [thing] restraining [lit., holding down/fast; the Greek is neuter: ‛that which restrains/holds down’],

that he [the Son of Perdition] may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, only the one now restraining/holding down [the Greek here is masculine: ‛he who restrains/holds fast’]

[will do so] until he is come out of the midst.

 

 

[Diaste]

19 hours ago, WilliamL said:

All explained in the first post, of which this is a part. No problem at all with the translation, this is the accurate Greek meaning:

2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now you know the [thing] restraining [lit., holding down/fast; the Greek is neuter: ‛that which restrains/holds down’],

that he [the Son of Perdition] may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, only the one now restraining/holding down [the Greek here is masculine: ‛he who restrains/holds fast’]

[will do so] until he is come out of the midst.

 

 

My own work:

KJV                 only       he who now       letteth        [will let],

Greek            monon           arti               katecho       heos

Literal             Merely      just now        hold fast        until.

 

KJV                   until               he be taken             out of               the way. 

Greek                heos                ginomai                   ek                    mesos       

Literal               until               to emerge           from out of         in the midst.

The lexicon: 

 

only	μόνον (monon)	3440: merely	adverb from monos
he who now	ἄρτι (arti)	737: just now	of uncertain origin
restrains	κατέχων (katechōn)	2722: to hold fast, hold back	from kata and echó
[will do so] until	ἕως (eōs)	2193: till, until	a prim. particle used as a preposition, adverb and conjunction
he is taken	γένηται (genētai)	1096: to come into being, to happen, to become	from a prim. root gen-
out of the way.	μέσου (mesou)	3319: middle, in the midst	a prim. word

 

So this literally reads "Only for now wait till the emergence from the middle.", and has nothing to do with Church restraining the beast, Michael restraining the beast, or any restraint of the beast. This is in the same context and thesis of verse 1 and 2; the day of the Lord and the gathering of believers will not happen until the beast is revealed and the people of God rebel against God, and we are told to, 'Hang on till that revealing."

[RonaldBruno]

On 6/23/2020 at 2:20 PM, WilliamL said:

There is no doubt at all that if America's restraining influence is removed from the world scene, lawlessness will increase dramatically above anything we have ever experienced.

Lawlessness has engulfed America - haven't you noticed?

A dark spiritual force is creating havoc, division, hatred. All we hear on the news is lies and deceptions put out to manipulate Americans.

Satan has been given a short time and so this is a spiritual war we are in RIGHT NOW. The world is on board with this One World Government. The US has been the opstacle. Certainly we have stood up for peace, human rights In the past but our Government (THE SWAMP) is not a light to the world any more, it is corrupt. We will be judged along with the rest of the world. Examples of this is of course abortion and gay marriage. We showed little restraint in murdering 50 million fetuses, and allowed a corrupt Supreme Court to redefine marriage. 

[WilliamL]

On 7/16/2020 at 7:46 AM, RonaldBruno said:

Lawlessness has engulfed America - haven't you noticed?

Not like it is going to. The burning of the cities is small time compared to what is to come. Then the invasion by many peoples. But the Lord will save His people here in the end, after first He allows them to be punished and purged, and America will emerge greater than ever after its purification. All foretold in Isaiah 17, Genesis 49:22-25, and numerous prophecies by Native Americans, George Washington, and many others.

Which gets back to the point of the topic: will America's fall from worldly authority be the removal of the restraining force to the coming of the Son of Perdition? We are likely about to find out.

 

[RonaldBruno]

22 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Not like it is going to. The burning of the cities is small time compared to what is to come. Then the invasion by many peoples. But the Lord will save His people here in the end, after first He allows them to be punished and purged, and America will emerge greater than ever after its purification. All foretold in Isaiah 17, Genesis 49:22-25, and numerous prophecies by Native Americans, George Washington, and many others.

Which gets back to the point of the topic: will America's fall from worldly authority be the removal of the restraining force to the coming of the Son of Perdition? We are likely about to find out.

 

It appears that the "strong delusion" has been sent out, so that they would believe the lie. And most of the world is under this spell. It is evil at it's core. 

Many people have faith in  modern medicine, drugs, Big Pharma and the doctors who perform amazing things. They save lives but at what cost? How is it that we separate the men in white coats from sin as if they are pure and honest? Are they not human? We put them on pedestals _ our heroes and all their staff. They are well meaning with good intentions- most of them. But we need to understand that doctors are no less corrupt as anyone else. The phrase, "it's all about the money" certainly can include the medical industry. Well it's not all about the money, they want to heal people_ but at a high cost. 

It is clear that unnecessary and numerous tests are performed for something that has a simple solution and even a natural cure ( that they seem to always suppress).

My daughter had a kidney infection that 50 years ago would have been diagnosed with a simple urine or blood test and a simple remedy of antibiotics would have been in order. But no, a CT scan, sonogram, possibly an MRI - a slew of tests were insisted on. Six hours later, the same  diagnosis came back, a kidney infection, but now a bill of $14,000 was charged. Their reasons were - "We had to be sure it wasn't anything more serious". No, they didn't. They knew where the pain was and exactly where the kidneys are and knew the cure, but milked the insurance companies. They could have waited for her to heal and then rescheduled her for a follow up to see if there was something else.

That's what they are doing right now, milking the government for every claimed Covid-19 case. They get extra money for Covid deaths ($13k) and ($39k) if ventilators are used. And lets realize that our bodies cure us from viruses, the hospitals don't really have a cure, but certain drugs may help. And lets also be aware that the ICU racks up $6k-$10k and more per day for assisting your own body to heal you. No thank you, Vitamins D3, C, raw honey, sunshine and healthy organic foods for me.

It is human nature to be lured into temptation and fall into sin. "Shall we put this one down for a heart attack, cancer, a car accident or shall we put them down as a Covid deaths and make some money?

Listen, half of Americans out there are not Christians and do not have the fear of the Lord - so they think they can prosper by any means. Their conscience is seared with no belief in God above watching every move.

We see the numbers escalate - but they are exaggerated and some fraudulent and not only for the money but also political reasons. Also, Every Covid-19 test performed in a hospital is  counted as "hospitalized", whether or not they stay in the hospital or have symptoms.

So what can we do? Investigate every death, every hospital, doctor, coroner for fraud? No, because we just got through hailing them as our heroes, we can't turn in them and attack.  Because it's not all of them - it wouldnt be fair. Why not, we are bashing police because of a few bad apples. 

If y'all want to clean the swamp, clean the police force, you better clean the medical industry up as well. Will we do that? Nope, we won't do that, it's all too corrupt. God will, soon.

Edited July 22, 2020 by RonaldBruno
spelling

[WilliamL]

On 7/22/2020 at 8:10 AM, RonaldBruno said:

If y'all want to clean the swamp, clean the police force, you better clean the medical industry up as well. Will we do that? Nope, we won't do that, it's all too corrupt.

...and all too late.

Isaiah 9:18 For wickedness burns as the fire;
It shall devour the briers and thorns,
And kindle in the thickets of the forest;
They shall mount up like rising smoke.

19 Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts
The land is burned up,
And the people shall be as fuel for the fire;
No man shall spare his brother.

17:10 Because you have forgotten the God of your salvation,
And have not been mindful of the Rock of your stronghold,
Therefore you will plant pleasant plants
And set out foreign seedlings;

11 In the day you will make your plant to grow,
And in the morning you will make your seed to flourish;
But the harvest will be a heap of ruins
In the day of grief and desperate sorrow.

[Diaste]

On 7/23/2020 at 12:52 PM, WilliamL said:

 

Oy vey? Any view on 2 Thess 2:1-8 that requires a restrainer of evil is incorrect. Beyond a parsing and a simple exam of the language the entire context must be ignored. 

We can't go about just making up our own thesis to these important passages.

Thesis of 2 Thess 2:1-8: Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus and our gathering together to Him.

Not the thesis: Concerning what's restraining evil.

It's a real shame.

[WilliamL]

On 7/25/2020 at 3:00 AM, Diaste said:

Oy vey? Any view on 2 Thess 2:1-8 that requires a restrainer of evil is incorrect. Beyond a parsing and a simple exam of the language the entire context must be ignored. 

On 7/13/2020 at 4:40 AM, Diaste said:

My own work:

KJV                 only       he who now       letteth        [will let],

Greek            monon           arti               katecho       heos

Literal             Merely      just now        hold fast        until.

 

KJV                   until               he be taken             out of               the way. 

Greek                heos                ginomai                   ek                    mesos       

Literal               until               to emerge           from out of         in the midst.

 

Your "simple examination of the language" shows that you don't understand Greek, since you missed the Greek neuter tense of the first verb. And saying arti means "he who now" is nonsensical, since arti is merely the adverb "now."

In short, you bluffed your way through your translation.