There will be two Gog & Magog wars.

[Sister]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

I don't disagree for the most part. I have pretty much the same take on the general occurrence of events. I don't know if it makes sense or not but I have the same question as R hartono; if this burning of weapons happens after the 1000 years, it's 1007 years. I don't see that.

Hi Diaste

It's actually more than 1007 years.  Satan is locked up for a thousand years (for the whole 1000 yr reign). After that 1000 years expires, he is let loose again.  We don't know how long it will take for him to stir up the nations again, and get their weapons made, and head off to attack the kingdom area.  All we know is that after the final battle, it will take 7mths to bury the dead, and 7 years to burn the weapons.  The seven years is only at the end of it, after the battle.  You havn't considered all the rustling up yet.  So add some more years to that 1007.

That last generation are having their tribulation also.  Only this time Israel has converted to Christ.  I don't think Satan knows it, from being locked up so long that Israel is redeemed.  God is going to protect Israel this time, and the whole world will see.  Israel has been the role model of all the nations.  They will be prepared and informed just like we are today.  Everybody gets their faith tested at some time.  It's God's way of strengthening us and preventing us from becoming complacent.

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And fire comes down from heaven and consumes Gog and all the armies, one would think the weapons might also be burned if they were wood.

Well it says they shall take no wood out of the field or forest for fire, so we presume that those weapons are made out of wood which keeps the fire going.  Regardless, they are burning their weapons.

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I don't think the Gog of Magog armies are left to rot either since fire consumes them. 

Well just going on what the Word says; Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort , and to the beasts of the field to be devoured .   Think about this for a moment; When Jesus comes in his real form, he is going to be so bright.  That brightness, the flesh cannot take.  When he kills all those armies at the Armageddon war, not only is his Word a double edged sword,  but he is a flaming fire.  They will be burnt also at his presence, ... burnt enough to be killed instantly but left to the birds also to devour what's left.   So I don't see how anyone can think it's not possible to be burned, and still have enough flesh left to rot, because the scriptures say that will happen in the first war against the Lamb....and why should the second Gog and Magog war be any different?   2 thess 1:7  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels , 2 thess 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:   Isaiah 13:6  Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. Isaiah 13:7  Therefore shall all hands be faint , and every man's heart shall melt: Isaiah 13:8  And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another ; their faces shall be as flames .   Zech 14:12  And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.   Jeremiah 7:32  Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place. (They are buried in that valley where they are killed standing.  Not collected or taken there, but buried where they stood.  The valley is their open burial ground where the animals can get to.  In Ezekiel they are killed on the open field, and then collected and thrown into the Valley of Hamon-Gog) Jeremiah 7:33  And the carcases of this people shall be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth; and none shall fray them away.   Rev 19:7  And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;   All this was from the Armageddon war, just demonstrating that you can be burn't and still have meat left for the animals.  The same will happen in the Gog and Magog war after the 1000 years.  Obviously, in both wars they are not burn't to ashes.

[Serving]

On 6/24/2020 at 5:11 PM, R. Hartono said:

THE 1ST GOG & MAGOG WAR WILL HAPPEN BEFORE THE 7 YEARS OF GREAT TRIBULATION AND GOD WILL SPARE 1/6TH OF GOG.

Ezekiel 39:² And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee....

After Gog is defeated the Israelites will burn Gog's weapon as fuel fire for seven years.

^{Ezekiel 39:9} And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years: ¹⁰ So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests.

So will they be burning tanks? No wood there .. Artillery pieces? .. no wood there .. rocket launchers? no wood there .. guns? no wood there except for maybe AK47 gun stocks, but that would in no way be enough wood to last 7 years, not a chance .. so what modern weapons will they burn that are made out of wood? 

Makes no sense unless, unless this is dealing with a period of time where mankind goes back to basics .. kind of like what God describes happening during the millennium, and in this age, one would definitely expect wood being the dominant building product once more, domestic and militarily .. and only a post millennial world can match with the circumstances.

This can only be after the millennium. 

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THE 2ND GOG & MAGOG WAR WILL HAPPEN WHEN JESUS MILLENNIUM IS OVER.

Rev 20:7  And when the thousand years are EXPIRED, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,...

 

See above .. again, the burden of proof is to show exactly where in Ezekiel's two chapters (38 & 39) the duality or split needed for this doctrine occurs?   

We all know that God often generalises in one chapter, and then focuses in with more information within another chapter, and He does this for many subjects too, not just prophecy. 

So when comparing both chapters, I do not see a split, instead I see information building .. a complementing and joining of information to paint the whole picture .. just like the 4 gospels do for example. 

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GOG WILL BE TOTALLY BURN OUT AS NO MORE TIME IS LEFT FOR REPENTANCE AFTER THE THOUSAND YEARS EXPIRED.

Rev 20:9 .........and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

Well the example you used definitely aren't part of the group, seeing they get devoured.

But what of those not involved in the war? Those other inhabitants of the world during those times that God mentions?

You're adamant that once the 1000 years expires, that's it, times up !!

But that's un-biblical. 

Example : God said that when 70 years are up for Israel in Babylon, He would bring them out ..  

Question : (a) How long did it take for God to fully bring Israel out of Babylon?

                  (b) If there were still Israeli's in Babylon after the 70 years expired, prophetically speaking, would that make God a liar? 

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AFTER THE DESTRUCTION OF GOG, THE TIME FOR THIS WORLD IS FINISHED, THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT BEGINS.

^{Rev 20 11} And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. ¹² And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God ................

ITS A TOTAL NONSENSE TO SAY THAT THE BURNING OF THE WEAPON OF GOG AS FUEL FOR 7 YEARS WILL HAPPEN AFTER THE THOUSAND YEARS IS OVER, AS THE DEVIL ALREADY CAST OUT TO FIRE n GOG ARMY IS ALREADY BURNT OUT.

WHATS THE USE FOR GOD TO LET THE ISRAELITES BURN THAT GOG'S WEAPON FOR ANOTHER 7 YEARS TO MAKE IT ANOTHER 7 YEARS AFTER 1000 YEARS = 1007 YEARS ? A TOTAL BLUNDER.

 

The war begins after the 1000 years is up !!

So that's 1000 years + ???? post years !!

It could take another decade for all we know, nobody knows except the Lord.

Hartono, this doctrine has big problems, I don't know who came up with it, but he/she/they are wrong. 

This is the problem with taking other people's interpretations .. because you also take their mistakes. 

Better to work these things out for ourselves .. it gives deeper understanding on topics when doing so and is far more satisfying.

And when mistakes are found, it is far easier to address, since you only have yourself to face .. 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Serving

[Diaste]

18 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Diaste

It's actually more than 1007 years.  Satan is locked up for a thousand years (for the whole 1000 yr reign). After that 1000 years expires, he is let loose again.  We don't know how long it will take for him to stir up the nations again, and get their weapons made, and head off to attack the kingdom area.  All we know is that after the final battle, it will take 7mths to bury the dead, and 7 years to burn the weapons.  The seven years is only at the end of it, after the battle.  You havn't considered all the rustling up yet.  So add some more years to that 1007.

Interesting. That didn't occur to me. That could take some time. 

18 hours ago, Sister said:

That last generation are having their tribulation also.  Only this time Israel has converted to Christ.  I don't think Satan knows it, from being locked up so long that Israel is redeemed.  God is going to protect Israel this time, and the whole world will see.  Israel has been the role model of all the nations.  They will be prepared and informed just like we are today.  Everybody gets their faith tested at some time.  It's God's way of strengthening us and preventing us from becoming complacent.

Well it says they shall take no wood out of the field or forest for fire, so we presume that those weapons are made out of wood which keeps the fire going.  Regardless, they are burning their weapons.

Well, it's not a weak presumption. 

18 hours ago, Sister said:

Well just going on what the Word says; Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort , and to the beasts of the field to be devoured .   Think about this for a moment; When Jesus comes in his real form, he is going to be so bright.  That brightness, the flesh cannot take.  When he kills all those armies at the Armageddon war, not only is his Word a double edged sword,  but he is a flaming fire.  They will be burnt also at his presence, ... burnt enough to be killed instantly but left to the birds also to devour what's left.   So I don't see how anyone can think it's not possible to be burned, and still have enough flesh left to rot, because the scriptures say that will happen in the first war against the Lamb....and why should the second Gog and Magog war be any different?

Correct. But at the end the fire doesn't just burn it consumes. The connotations of 'katesthió' is there is nothing left. Probably not even ashes.

18 hours ago, Sister said:

 

2 thess 1:7  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels ,

2 thess 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

 

Isaiah 13:6  Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

Isaiah 13:7  Therefore shall all hands be faint , and every man's heart shall melt:

Isaiah 13:8  And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another ; their faces shall be as flames .

 

Zech 14:12  And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

Jeremiah 7:32  Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place.

(They are buried in that valley where they are killed standing.  Not collected or taken there, but buried where they stood.  The valley is their open burial ground where the animals can get to.  In Ezekiel they are killed on the open field, and then collected and thrown into the Valley of Hamon-Gog)

Jeremiah 7:33  And the carcases of this people shall be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth; and none shall fray them away.

 

Rev 19:7  And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

 

All this was from the Armageddon war, just demonstrating that you can be burn't and still have meat left for the animals.  The same will happen in the Gog and Magog war after the 1000 years.  Obviously, in both wars they are not burn't to ashes.

The Zech 14 verse above really seems to point out there is nothing left. At this point I would place Zech 14:12 after the millennium.

(They are buried in that valley where they are killed standing.  Not collected or taken there, but buried where they stood.  The valley is their open burial ground where the animals can get to.  In Ezekiel they are killed on the open field, and then collected and thrown into the Valley of Hamon-Gog)

If this valley is on the east of the sea which sea? Mediterranean or Dead? The actual location of Hamongog isn't known, it's just the place of burial of Gog. I'm not convinced Jeremiah 7:32 is speaking to the end of the age. It would take some research but I'm thinking this was fulfilled in ancient times.

[R. Hartono]

On 6/28/2020 at 9:27 AM, Episcopius said:

Will the weapons burned actually be spears, bows and arrows and other ancient items?

 

If you disassemble a rifle there will be wooden part n metal parts.

TENS of Millions Civilians from Gog n Magog nations may join Gog to attack Israel with those conventional weapon as they plan to invade Cities in Israel n attack n kill all civilian Jews.

What do u think these civilians will carry as weapon from their home ?

Edited June 30, 2020 by R. Hartono

[R. Hartono]

39 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Interesting. That didn't occur to me. That could take some time. 

Well, it's not a weak presumption. 

Correct. But at the end the fire doesn't just burn it consumes. The connotations of 'katesthió' is there is nothing left. Probably not even ashes.

The Zech 14 verse above really seems to point out there is nothing left. At this point I would place Zech 14:12 after the millennium.

(They are buried in that valley where they are killed standing.  Not collected or taken there, but buried where they stood.  The valley is their open burial ground where the animals can get to.  In Ezekiel they are killed on the open field, and then collected and thrown into the Valley of Hamon-Gog)

If this valley is on the east of the sea which sea? Mediterranean or Dead? The actual location of Hamongog isn't known, it's just the place of burial of Gog. I'm not convinced Jeremiah 7:32 is speaking to the end of the age. It would take some research but I'm thinking this was fulfilled in ancient times.

Who wud want to bury Gog when the Millennium is over ? ?⬆️⬆️?

[Sister]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

The Zech 14 verse above really seems to point out there is nothing left. At this point I would place Zech 14:12 after the millennium.

Yes it seems like it there is nothing left of them, but on the other hand, God says;

Revelation 19:17   And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

  Revelation 19:18   That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
 

The above refers to Zech 14:12, on that day.  All is at Jesus' return.

 

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

They are buried in that valley where they are killed standing.  Not collected or taken there, but buried where they stood.  The valley is their open burial ground where the animals can get to.  In Ezekiel they are killed on the open field, and then collected and thrown into the Valley of Hamon-Gog)

If this valley is on the east of the sea which sea? Mediterranean or Dead? The actual location of Hamongog isn't known, it's just the place of burial of Gog. I'm not convinced Jeremiah 7:32 is speaking to the end of the age. It would take some research but I'm thinking this was fulfilled in ancient times.

Yes, the valley of Hammongog doesn't exist yet.  It could be created after the shaking of the land (earthquake).  I always pictured Hamongog on the east of the Dead Sea, but it could be either.

 

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

I'm not convinced Jeremiah 7:32 is speaking to the end of the age. It would take some research but I'm thinking this was fulfilled in ancient times.

Yes, have a read.  Jeremiah 7.32 is definitately at the end of this era, because in the next one to come Israel will be in the Lord. 

That place Tophet, (Valley of Hinnom) is the place where Israel used to sacrifice their children, because they learned the ways of the heathen.  I wouldn't say all of them, but the ones God is speaking about did.  It's that same place where the armies will be buried at the Coming, in that same valley, which will be renamed Valley of Slaughter after Christ returns.  Now not the innocents are thrown in there, but the wicked shall die there.

 

  Jeremiah 7:30   For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the LORD: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it.

  Jeremiah 7:31   And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.

  Jeremiah 7:32   Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place.

  Jeremiah 7:33   And the carcases of this people shall be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth; and none shall fray them away.

  Jeremiah 7:34   Then will I cause to cease from the cities of Judah, and from the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride: for the land shall be desolate.

 

[Diaste]

2 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Who wud want to bury Gog when the Millennium is over ? ?⬆️⬆️?

Kinda my point as well. 

[Sister]

5 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Who wud want to bury Gog when the Millennium is over ? ?⬆️⬆️?

R.Hartono

Maybe you should ask God why he's letting Satan out after the 1000 years?

and why he said the following, if it's true or just plain funny?

 

Revelation 20:2   And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Revelation 20:3   And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 

Revelation 20:7   And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Revelation 20:8   And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

[Serving]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

Kinda my point as well. 

Diaste,

Just consider that which you admitted to Sister for a moment, that is, this :

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

Interesting. That didn't occur to me. That could take some time. 

That was concerning how the Gog & Magog war actually begins after the millennium is up, that is, 1000 years plus however long the whole Gog & Magog scenario takes. (good on you btw for your honesty/humility there, I respect that)

Now expand your critical thinking for a possible answer for yourself .. perhaps, perhaps God really will have a true final generation, that is, the day will come where God will shut the wombs of every woman on the planet, seeing the predetermined number of humans is reached (surely there is going to be a cap of sorts on how many people God determined would be born before the end of ends comes), and this final generation must age to a point of God's liking before the end itself?

Maybe God is even giving that last generation of children a final chance too?

If so, that too can "take some time".

He does after all declare, "That the heathen may know". The "Heathen" being those of the nations on whom no rain falls, that is, the rebel nations who reject the Lord, those same nations from whence the armies of Gog & Magog are sourced. That is, this group/confederacy :

Ezekiel 38

5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.

8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Diaste, you admitted to something that didn't occur to you, and no insult, but it was something pretty obvious that you missed, and you only missed it because your doctrine (on this subject that is) had no room for it nor even considered it, that is, those who made the doctrine you are agreeing with made a mistake, they failed to acknowledge a simple yet critical fact.  

So all I ask is this .. ask yourself, what else was "missed" ?

There is still room for more input, perhaps you can add to the possibilities that those doctrine makers missed, those who did you that disservice !! 

What I've highlighted above is the only duality I can perceive in Ezekiel's chpts 38 & 39. 

And it does not speak of them attacking anything pre millennial, but speaks of them guarding each other from everybody else (likely doctrinally & physically) until the day comes where they will attack, that being post millenial, that is, in "the latter years" at the very end of ends.

Meaning, yes, the nations of that future army exist now, and they will band together during the millennium, and when the time comes, when Satan is released, after the millennium is up, then they attack. Not before, but after the millennium.

Gotta stop myself from going on a tangent, but do you get where I am coming from?

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Serving

[R. Hartono]

5 hours ago, Serving said:

Diaste,

Just consider that which you admitted to Sister for a moment, that is, this :

That was concerning how the Gog & Magog war actually begins after the millennium is up, that is, 1000 years plus however long the whole Gog & Magog scenario takes. (good on you btw for your honesty/humility there, I respect that)

Now expand your critical thinking for a possible answer for yourself .. perhaps, perhaps God really will have a true final generation, that is, the day will come where God will shut the wombs of every woman on the planet, seeing the predetermined number of humans is reached (surely there is going to be a cap of sorts on how many people God determined would be born before the end of ends comes), and this final generation must age to a point of God's liking before the end itself?

Maybe God is even giving that last generation of children a final chance too?

If so, that too can "take some time".

He does after all declare, "That the heathen may know". The "Heathen" being those of the nations on whom no rain falls, that is, the rebel nations who reject the Lord, those same nations from whence the armies of Gog & Magog are sourced. That is, this group/confederacy :

Ezekiel 38

5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.

8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Diaste, you admitted to something that didn't occur to you, and no insult, but it was something pretty obvious that you missed, and you only missed it because your doctrine (on this subject that is) had no room for it nor even considered it, that is, those who made the doctrine you are agreeing with made a mistake, they failed to acknowledge a simple yet critical fact.  

So all I ask is this .. ask yourself, what else was "missed" ?

There is still room for more input, perhaps you can add to the possibilities that those doctrine makers missed, those who did you that disservice !! 

What I've highlighted above is the only duality I can perceive in Ezekiel's chpts 38 & 39. 

And it does not speak of them attacking anything pre millennial, but speaks of them guarding each other from everybody else (likely doctrinally & physically) until the day comes where they will attack, that being post millenial, that is, in "the latter years" at the very end of ends.

Meaning, yes, the nations of that future army exist now, and they will band together during the millennium, and when the time comes, when Satan is released, after the millennium is up, then they attack. Not before, but after the millennium.

Gotta stop myself from going on a tangent, but do you get where I am coming from?

 

When Millennium is over, satan n Gog were finished, then you n Sister will bury them ? Funny, WHO WUD WANT TO REMEMBER THEIR GRAVES other than you n Sister may be ???✝️✝️✝️✝️✝️✝️✝️???