Unbelief Reasons

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Who me said:

You are looking at the Bible with post new testament eyes.

The Jews in biblical times were not looking for a suffering Messiah and had no concept of a dying and   resurfacing saviour.

Yes your reasoning is correct, but in seeking to understand scripture we have to seek to understand how those who wrote it and first read it would have understood it and see whether what they understood was similar to how we understand it today.

 

Please what is the   

had no concept of a dying and 

 "resurfacing saviour"

what the word resurfacing means?"

God bless 

[Don19]

6 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Amen, brother!

This is faith in God and love for his truth, rather than the freewillers' idolatry of self and hatred of God's sovereignty in salvation.

Rom. 9:18-24 (VW)

18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
19 You will say to me then, Why does He yet find fault? For who has resisted His will?
20 No, rather, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, Why have you made me like this?
21 Does not the potter have authority over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel unto honor and another unto dishonor?
22 What if God, determining to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath rendered fit unto destruction,
23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand unto glory,
24 whom He also called, not only of us Jews, but also of the Gentiles?

 

Amen. This doctrine is taught so clearly in Scripture, and for our edification and comfort.

John asks in his first epistle why Cain slew Abel. The answer he gives is, because his own works were evil and his brother's righteous. Of course, we know from New Testament revelation, and even from the very history of Cain and Abel itself, that the righteousness in question was an alien one. It was the testimony of God that made Abel righteous, through an act of faith on Abel's part, and not anything in Abel himself. We are reckoned righteous in Christ. Cain was full of wrath towards his brother. He was rejected and his brother accepted. Cain was wroth, while Esau wept because he was rejected from any inheritance. Likewise, Jesus describes the state of the damned as "weeping and gnashing of teeth" - which encompasses both reactions. Moreover, Jesus identified election as the reason for the world's hatred of His people (John 15:19).

We, who are in Christ, are accepted in Him. There is no condemnation for those in Him. If we thus walk in the Spirit, realizing the promise, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh - which in Cain's case was murder. God basically told Cain to work out a righteousness for himself - but if he doesn't do well, sin lies at the door (Gen 4:6-7). Without the promise, there is only the flesh; what's born of flesh is flesh. So that is law. We are not under law, but under grace: the predestinating and particular favor of God. "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?" (Rom 8:32)

The wicked hate the brethren because they themselves are in the flesh and are rejected or reprobated, as Cain or Esau. Ismael mocked Isaac (Gen 21:9), who was the child of promise while he himself was born of the bondwoman, which also is an allegory for the law as Paul says in Galatians 4:21-31, as he was not the child of promise. For if the inheritance be of law, it is no more of promise (Gal 3:18).

Now we who have been made alive in Christ, and given such exceeding great and precious promises, who are we (of all people) to reply against God?! He has made us vessels unto honor, that He might use us as objects of His love and kindness for all eternity! He created all things for His own pleasure (Col 1:16, Psalm 115:3), and it is His good pleasure to give His children the kingdom (Luke 12:32). On the day of judgment, the magnitude of God's grace and love for us will be made so clear. The wicked, whose names are not in the book of life, who were rejected from the foundation of the world, will be judged, as vessels of wrath. But the elect, whom God foreknew (i.e., loved beforehand), and chose before the foundation of the world, will be given the inheritance, as vessels of mercy.

[Who me]

51 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Please what is the   

had no concept of a dying and 

 "resurfacing saviour"

what the word resurfacing means?"

God bless 

Sorry auto spell check which I didn't spot.

Should read resurrected saviour.

[Who me]

1 hour ago, theElect777 said:

 

 

 

David told God He would not leave his body in the grave.   There had to be some understanding of death-burial-resurrection for David to be able to write this.   And the Holy Spirit wrote the Bible, man just inked it.

 

Yes the Jews believed in a general resurrection, see Mary at Lazarus tombp

[TheBlade]

On 7/5/2020 at 1:15 PM, Don19 said:

God does not love those He will send to hell for all eternity (see also Psalm 5:5, Proverbs 16:4). He does love those He chose before the foundation of the world in Christ to be holy and without blame before Him in love. Now that's love! It's a love that doesn't fail, but will surely save each and every one of its particular objects. As He says, His word will not return to Him void.

Isaiah 55:11:

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

"Psa 5:5 For you are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness, evil cannot remain with you. Pro 16:4 Adonai made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of disaster. " How its org written.

The problem here is God does not send anyone to (forgive me Father)hell. Everyone gets a choice. Every fallen angel made that choice. Every man/woman made the choice. God had nothing to do with it. And you made a statement you never backed up by the word.. twice. Not going to sorry play the game of "predestination". Which works great for those that believe it.. its always the OTHER person God didn't pick. Hmm

Anyway.. to the OP did not God say " Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD; though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. " Did not God listen to Moshe (Moses)? On and on. This I believe..

That being said.. its not the same but.. in the ball park I think? Well one time God told me to do something (to protect me) I just questioned it with a smile. He came right back with "when God tells you to do something you don't question it you just do it". Makes me wonder if God .. how many times.. He looks around and says "A do they not know who I AM?" haha Oh after He said that.. I just said YES LORD! I wish more times like that in my life but.. you don't get to say when those things happen.. He does it..always for a reason.

I don't see reason at doubt... never thought about it like that.. gonna have to dig more in that. Thank you

 

[Your closest friendnt]

19 hours ago, theElect777 said:

 

 

 

David told God He would not leave his body in the grave.   There had to be some understanding of death-burial-resurrection for David to be able to write this.   And the Holy Spirit wrote the Bible, man just inked it.

 

English Standard Version
For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol, or let your holy one see corruption.

Berean Study Bible
For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol, nor will You let Your Holy One see decay.

New American Standard Bible
For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol; Nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay.

New King James Version
For You will not leave my soul in Sheol, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.

King James Bible
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Christian Standard Bible
For you will not abandon me to Sheol; you will not allow your faithful one to see decay.

.................

David show himself after death...(descending) in Hades...(how it was ordained by the Lord God... that his people "the children of Abraham had to be gathered to where Abraham was to be together with their Patriarch Abraham, Issac, and Jacob...).

(Jesus  Christ had not died and inherit the Heaven...thus opening the way to Heaven for his children...)

.............

David sees that arrangement as a temporary one....

and not only for him...but also for his Patriarch Abraham...and everyone who was gathered to him...(Abraham)...because not yet anyone was gathered to God...as Jesus Christ had not inherit the Heaven yet...

As David says "you will not leave my soul in Hades....

it yell us he was looking forwards to  be taken away from there....and how would that happen....

David knew how would that happen....

.......David continues to say....

"and you will not let your Holy one (of Israel) see corruption...

The Holy One of Israel had let David understood that he will descend to Hades in the place where his people were...

David also see him having a body like them...and being raised from the dead back to his body and never die again...

David also understood that his Lord God that time he will take them out from Sheol...even though not his but their bodies had been blessed "from dust to dust" ...

David also show what happened next...

as in another scripture said: 

The Lord said to my Lord "sit on my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool "...

David show himself (and not only himself but also Abraham and his seed who were with him in that Place of the dead waiting for their Lord to take them to their Heavenly Inheritance...

David show his Lord God dieing so he can descend to Hades...

David show his Lord in a human body subjected to death ...

I am not sure if he was shown the way of how this  happened...

it amazing his Lord God let him know everything that will happen...

so David bring this message to where he went to be after his death...to Abraham and everyone else who was there with him...

Jesus said "Abraham knew his day...of Jesus Christ and was waiting for him...to finally be taken out from there and be with his Lord as Jesus  Christ forever to be with him...

 

[Don19]

10 hours ago, TheBlade said:

 Everyone gets a choice.

How can anyone even say that? What about all those people who were born in a time and place in the history of the world where there was no gospel?

Is is not lawful for God to do what He will with His own (Mat 20:15)? If God had chosen for me to be born in 300 BC in China, I never would have believed, and I would have perished. I didn't choose the time and place of my birth. Who did choose that then but God? Just as He has chosen His elect for salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth (2 Thess 2:13).

[Your closest friendnt]

On 7/12/2020 at 11:14 AM, Don19 said:

How can anyone even say that? What about all those people who were born in a time and place in the history of the world where there was no gospel?

Is is not lawful for God to do what He will with His own (Mat 20:15)? If God had chosen for me to be born in 300 BC in China, I never would have believed, and I would have perished. I didn't choose the time and place of my birth. Who did choose that then but God? Just as He has chosen His elect for salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth (2 Thess 2:13).

This is not good at all....

I do not agree with what you have posted is not part of the Gospel...

ew International Version Mathew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

"The Gospel should be preached to all, and everyone must decide for himself....

This is what Jesus was teaching..

John 12 

47As for anyone who hears My words and does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48

48.There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

 

The word you have heard and have decided not to believe...is the word that is judging you...

I post the scriptures below so you can reflect on them, because they rather oppose the context in your post that support it....

 

Matthew 20 New International Version (NIV)

The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard

20 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. ² He agreed to pay them a denarius^[a] for the day and sent them into his vineyard.

³ “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. ⁴ He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ ⁵ So they went.

“He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. ⁶ About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’

⁷ “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.

“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’

⁸ “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’

⁹ “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. ¹⁰ So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. ¹¹ When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. ¹² ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’

¹³ “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? ¹⁴ Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. ¹⁵ Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

¹⁶ “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

***********

2 Thessalonians 2:13, NIV: "But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth."
 

 

[Justin Adams]

Any thought, idea or concept we ever had - God had it first in ages past. He has made known to us His Character and Love for mankind. Thus He will be JUST and MERCIFUL and 'save to the uttermost'.

All we have to do is evangelise the lost we come across on a daily basis. God will see to it that all others are treated fairly. We must never judge God by our frail standards and limited understanding. We should be willing servants and let God be in charge!

Edited July 14, 2020 by Justin Adams