Defunding the Police a Real thing

[branchesofHim]

1 Timothy 2:[1] I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
[2] For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
[3] For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
[4] Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
[5] For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
[6] Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

[Fidei Defensor]

5 hours ago, LonerAndy said:

Here's the problem.  Good people are the ones who will leave the police force.

The bad ones will stay.

What the protestors and BLM people are doing, is causing the exact problem they are complaining about.

Good police are not going to stick around, being treated.

The bad police, who can't get a job elsewhere, will stay on the force.  Only they will be more angry and bitter, than they were before.

That’s why they need to change the law that police lose immunity and can be sued by citizens for wrongful conduct. The Police are protected by their immunity. If this was changed, crooked cops coukd get a joint lawsuit that costs their departement enough to make them more swift to remove corrupt cops. 

Of course the downside is that good cops could get sued by people who disagree aboit a ticket and trivial matters, or worse be persecuted by citizens with a score to settle; people pouring out their ire towards a good cop over their bad experiences with bad cops. 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Fidei Defensor

[LonerAndy]

9 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

That’s why they need to change the law that police lose immunity and can be sued by citizens for wrongful conduct. The Police are protected by their immunity. If this was changed, crooked cops coukd get a joint lawsuit that costs their departement enough to make them more swift to remove corrupt cops. 

Of course the downside is that good cops could get sued by people who disagree aboit a ticket and trivial matters, or worse be persecuted by citizens with a score to settle; people pouring out their ire towards a good cop over their bad experiences with bad cops. 

Yeah, I can't imagine that any person anywhere, would ever want to be a police officer under the conditions you just outlined.

You might as well just close the police departments, and have vigilante justice, and lynchings.

Right now, we have cops going to prison, and being attacked as racist, and a number of them shot.... because they did exactly what they were trained and instructed to do.

Now you want to add to it, getting sued by every single criminal that got a skinned knee when they attacked and fought an officer?

Who would want that job?

I think one of the big problems with people who want to attack the police, and regulate every action of the police, fail to realize that the police do not have "have to" show up when you call them.   They don't have 'have to' come when someone is being raped, or beaten, or murdered.

The other thing police can do... is simply find another job, or retire early, and most important, not even take the job to begin with.

And when you see the massive increase in gun sales across the US, it's because many people see this coming.

Remember that guy in Seattle that called the police, and they just flat out refused to show up?

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/nobody-showed-up-911-calls-bring-no-response-after-break-auto-shop-near-capitol-hill-protest-zone/O42CQ6VUXVDBHIB3334DI7LPV4/

The police simply refused to go help.   What are you going to do about that?   They were not going to go help this guy that called 911, have some punk criminal attack them or resist them, end up hurt or killed, and then they are called racists, and fired, and sent to prison.

I'm not doing that. You want that job?

And people know this.  Do you even realize how big of a crisis there is in the police force?   And this was BEFORE Floyd and even Trump being elected.

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/national-politics/the-race-2020/police-departments-across-the-u-s-are-battling-an-officer-shortage

https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/police-staffing-shortages-a-nationwide-trend

In Baltimore, before any of the current problems, before Floyd was ever a name in the news, was short so many officers, that 26% of all their patrol positions were vacant.

When did that happen?  After the Freddie Grey protests in 2015, where 6 six officers were charged with the death of Freddie Grey, three of the officers were black.

Well who wants to be charged for crimes, when you are doing exactly as you were instructed to do? 

There is going to come a time, and at this rate the not too distance future, where you simply won't have police at all.  You'll be carrying a gun to protect yourself at all times, because no police will come when you call.

Go read about the Ferguson Effect.  It's real.   The police can simply drive to the farthest place in the entire city, and just wait for the call to come in.  By the time time they get there, the bodies will be cold, and the criminals will be long gone.

Then they won't confront a criminal, and they won't resist, and then no one gets hurt, no cops accused of racism, and no police end up in prison for doing their job.   Of course lots of people will get raped and murdered... but that's how that rolls.

You'll be like that guy from Seattle, who called the police 19 times, until he realize they simply were not going to come.

Edited July 5, 2020 by LonerAndy

[Fidei Defensor]

6 hours ago, LonerAndy said:

Yeah, I can't imagine that any person anywhere, would ever want to be a police officer under the conditions you just outlined.

You might as well just close the police departments, and have vigilante justice, and lynchings.

Right now, we have cops going to prison, and being attacked as racist, and a number of them shot.... because they did exactly what they were trained and instructed to do.

Now you want to add to it, getting sued by every single criminal that got a skinned knee when they attacked and fought an officer?

Who would want that job?

I think one of the big problems with people who want to attack the police, and regulate every action of the police, fail to realize that the police do not have "have to" show up when you call them.   They don't have 'have to' come when someone is being raped, or beaten, or murdered.

The other thing police can do... is simply find another job, or retire early, and most important, not even take the job to begin with.

And when you see the massive increase in gun sales across the US, it's because many people see this coming.

Remember that guy in Seattle that called the police, and they just flat out refused to show up?

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/nobody-showed-up-911-calls-bring-no-response-after-break-auto-shop-near-capitol-hill-protest-zone/O42CQ6VUXVDBHIB3334DI7LPV4/

The police simply refused to go help.   What are you going to do about that?   They were not going to go help this guy that called 911, have some punk criminal attack them or resist them, end up hurt or killed, and then they are called racists, and fired, and sent to prison.

I'm not doing that. You want that job?

And people know this.  Do you even realize how big of a crisis there is in the police force?   And this was BEFORE Floyd and even Trump being elected.

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/national-politics/the-race-2020/police-departments-across-the-u-s-are-battling-an-officer-shortage

https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/police-staffing-shortages-a-nationwide-trend

In Baltimore, before any of the current problems, before Floyd was ever a name in the news, was short so many officers, that 26% of all their patrol positions were vacant.

When did that happen?  After the Freddie Grey protests in 2015, where 6 six officers were charged with the death of Freddie Grey, three of the officers were black.

Well who wants to be charged for crimes, when you are doing exactly as you were instructed to do? 

There is going to come a time, and at this rate the not too distance future, where you simply won't have police at all.  You'll be carrying a gun to protect yourself at all times, because no police will come when you call.

Go read about the Ferguson Effect.  It's real.   The police can simply drive to the farthest place in the entire city, and just wait for the call to come in.  By the time time they get there, the bodies will be cold, and the criminals will be long gone.

Then they won't confront a criminal, and they won't resist, and then no one gets hurt, no cops accused of racism, and no police end up in prison for doing their job.   Of course lots of people will get raped and murdered... but that's how that rolls.

You'll be like that guy from Seattle, who called the police 19 times, until he realize they simply were not going to come.

I feel my words have been misinterpreted.I said being able to sue the police is a double sword, for exactly what you said, criminals or citizens who want retribution for what they percieve as unfair will tie up courts with false suites.  But there has to be a way to hold police accountable, they wield too much authority with little accountability. In states like California officers with felonies, murder and DUIs are still on the force! (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mercurynews.com/2019/11/10/californias-criminal-cops-convicted-but-stay-on-the-job/amp/) 

[LonerAndy]

29 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

I feel my words have been misinterpreted.I said being able to sue the police is a double sword, for exactly what you said, criminals or citizens who want retribution for what they percieve as unfair will tie up courts with false suites.  But there has to be a way to hold police accountable, they wield too much authority with little accountability. In states like California officers with felonies, murder and DUIs are still on the force! (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mercurynews.com/2019/11/10/californias-criminal-cops-convicted-but-stay-on-the-job/amp/) 

The irony of that, is that reality you just posted, is likely because of the reality I posted.

It's exactly what I told you before, that the result of this whole thing, is going to be that good cops leave, and bad cops stay.

California has been in a police officer shortage for decades.  One of the worst areas for police.  They are hated by absolutely everyone, and they are attacked by the people in government who employee them, and they know that if they get into problems, that even the police unions will throw them under the bus, to protect their own jobs.

https://www.berkeleyside.com/2018/12/20/as-staffing-crisis-continues-for-berkeley-police-officers-who-left-reveal-why

Quote

 

It came as a shock to everyone when Sgt. Chris Stines abruptly resigned from the Berkeley Police Department last week to start a new job in the private sector. In addition to running the police union for six years, the 20-year veteran was a valued member of BPD’s elite Special Response Team and a 13-year sergeant whose leadership skills and experience had won him deep respect and trust throughout the agency.

His departure was the latest in a wave of exits over the past two years as longtime Berkeley police officers have left the agency in record numbers.

 

20 years on the force, and he was running the police union itself, for 3 years.   Dumped his job.  Said forget this, and left.

Long long time police officers are ditching the police force in California.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/17/california-police-shortage/72364360/

Quote

Open positions for law enforcement professionals in California have increased by 603% since 2010

“This is unheard of,” Palm Springs Lt. Mike Kovaleff said. “You can pretty much pick a place on the map in California and see that they’re hiring. ... We are in a hiring crisis in the state of California.”

Sentiment towards police in the post-Ferguson era has made the job less attractive, some officials said.

Virtually every single police department in the entire state of California is in crisis of a shortage of officers.

https://www.lawofficer.com/staffing-shortages-a-nationwide-trend-among-police-agencies/

Quote

The lack of recruits has meant a financial cost as well. In Portland, Oregon, overtime nearly doubled between 2013 and 2018, much of that due to a staffing shortage

“If they feel they could be indicted for doing their jobs, even if their heart is in the right place, they’re not going to work here,” said Ed Norris, a former Baltimore City Police Commissioner.

In the past it would not be uncommon for sons and daughters to follow in the footsteps of their law enforcement parents. But recently, more and more police professionals are steering their children toward other career opportunities.

Now I posted all of that, to make this point.

You posted that now 100s of officers are breaking the law, and they are still employed as officers.

Given everything I just posted, why do you think that is?

The reason why police departments are reluctant to get rid of officers caught breaking the law, is simply because there are no replacements.   Police academies are so short of new recruits, that they are closing classes.  Long time officers are leaving the ranks, even officers that were part of the police Union, are telling their own children, don't be a police officer.

They are keeping on bad cops, because they have to.  They do not have anyone to take their place, and they are already critically under staffed.

It is exactly what I told you before.  Everything that is going on right now, is actually creating the very problem they claim to be against.  They say they want to stop bad cops, but demanding to have lawsuits, and being "indicted for doing their jobs", is going to push out the good cops, and keep on the force the bad cops.

Edited July 5, 2020 by LonerAndy

[Fidei Defensor]

@LonerAndy You make a coming case. “Think on this, I will.” 

[zach22]

Okay honestly why defund the police without them there's no one to come and help us arrest people who killed someone or to stop these people who are protesting BLM rallys and looting cities and attacking peace officers and burning the American flag which is disgusting, disgraceful many people fought for our FREEDOM WHY burn it,your just disrespecting the men and women who went to war and sacrificed their lives for US

 

[Prycejosh1987]

Police is very do their own thing and take the law into their own hands. police is filled with hypocrisy and subjective behaviour. They do what they personally think is best in their opinion, and not what is for the good of the community. 

[LonerAndy]

On 7/5/2020 at 12:39 AM, Fidei Defensor said:

@LonerAndy You make a coming case. “Think on this, I will.” 

Just some additional things to consider.   The police in California have started just calling off sick, in mass.  This is called "Blue Flu" and has happened in the past rarely.  The purpose is usually over Union demands or something to that effect.   Typically though, the government simply threatens to fire everyone and replace them.

But that doesn't work, when the people are already leaving the force in droves.

300 officers over the 4th July weekend, called off.

Edited by Omegaman 3.0 - video deleted 

Don't post videos in the non video section @LonerAndy , and don't post this one at all, as it will not be approved due to the use of psuedo swear words!

While the government could threaten to fire the officers... the reality is, they simply don't have anyone to replace the officers, and the government knows this.

 

[Fidei Defensor]

2 hours ago, LonerAndy said:

Just some additional things to consider.   The police in California have started just calling off sick, in mass.  This is called "Blue Flu" and has happened in the past rarely.  The purpose is usually over Union demands or something to that effect.   Typically though, the government simply threatens to fire everyone and replace them.

But that doesn't work, when the people are already leaving the force in droves.

300 officers over the 4th July weekend, called off.

While the government could threaten to fire the officers... the reality is, they simply don't have anyone to replace the officers, and the government knows this.

 

What happens next is anarchy, after that military police (like in Russia) who shoot and ask questions later.