COVID-19: Rev 6:8 and 9:18

[Fidei Defensor]

41 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Since we don't know what Jesus looked like, any image of him is a misrepresentation.  Misrepresentations of the Lord are dishonouring to him, so this is not a matter of personal conscience.  It's like saying that lying about the Lord is a matter of conscience - it's not, it's a sin.

Intriguing view, however, Jesus knows artists are trying to catch his likeness out of devotion to Him. If the art isn’t 100% accurate does it matter? The intent is to honor Christ. The image is a representation, not utterly accurate, all art is influenced by perception and the artist and what they want to get across. Its windows, like stain glass, with many colors trying to capture the Divine. It won’t do so perfectly, but then art isn’t about perfection; it is words, thoughts, and truths painted with brush. 

Granted, I do take issue with some Orthodox icons that depict Jesus as either ready to explode with rage or as if he he apathetic and indolent towards us. On these depictions I see only harm. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Fidei Defensor

[Fidei Defensor]

27 minutes ago, David1701 said:

By "baptized", I assume you mean sprinkled as an infant.  This is not scriptural baptism and means nothing.

Confirmation means a bit more, but is still not a strong indication of salvation.

It's good that they won't ordain Freemasons or homosexuals.

Here are the parameters for salvation according to the Apostles Paul and John: 

“If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,”and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.” (Romans 10:9-10)

”For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.” (John 3:16-18) 

“And they (Paul and Silas) said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house./And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” (Acts 16:31) 

Lutherans fufill these passages at Confirmation. They confess with their mouth and believe in their hearts.  

[Don19]

2 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

There are this many Lutherans who have not bended the knee to culture and watering down of the gospel: 

Missouri Synod Lutherans

“1,968,641 baptized (1.9 Million) 
1,545,124 confirmed (1.5 Million).” (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutheran_Church–Missouri_Synod) 

Missouri-Synod Lutherans won’t even ordain Free Masons, much less homosexuals. 

I don't have a positive view of Lutheranism. It's not the gospel. Lutheranism teaches a form of baptismal regeneration and denies eternal security.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Don19

[Fidei Defensor]

21 minutes ago, ChickenCoop said:

@David1701 

The theif on the cross beside Jesus became a believer at the last moment and was saved.  He didn't have any type of baptism. 

 

Amen brother! 

“One of the criminals who were hanged there was hurling abuse at Him, saying, “Are You not the Christ? Save Yourself and us!”But the other answered, and rebuking him said, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?And we indeed are sufferingjustly, for we are receiving [c]what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.”And he was saying, “Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!” And He (Jesus) said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.” (Luke 23:29-43). 

Infact, the Suppedaneum Cross or St. Andrew’s Cross/ Russian Cross has a foot rest cross beam that is tilted, the end going up is this criminal Jesus said would be in paradise, and the slanted down beam end is the other mocking criminal: 

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by Fidei Defensor

[David1701]

36 minutes ago, theElect777 said:

Many people put stock into the writings of the Ancient Jewish Historian Josephus.   If we accept his writings, he described Christ.

 

The first century Jewish writer Josephus (37-100 AD) penned the earliest non-biblical testimony of Jesus.  In his work Halosis or the “Capture (of Jerusalem),” written around 72 A.D., Josephus discussed “the human form of Jesus and his wonderful works.” Biblical scholar Robert Eisler in a classic 1931 study of Josephus’ Testimony was able to reconstruct the unaltered testimony based on a newly-discovered Old Russian translation that preserved the original Greek text. According to Eisler’s reconstruction, the oldest non-Biblical description of Jesus read as follows:

“At that time also there appeared a certain man of magic power … if it be meet to call him a man, [whose name is Jesus], whom [certain] Greeks call a son of [a] God, but his disciples [call] the true prophet … he was a man of simple appearance, mature age, black-skinned (melagchrous), short growth, three cubits tall, hunchbacked, prognathous (lit. ‘with a long face’ [macroprosopos]), a long nose, eyebrows meeting above the nose … with scanty [curly] hair, but having a line in the middle of the head after the fashion of the Nazaraeans, with an undeveloped beard.”

 

That description matches Isaiah to a "T" about the Messiah would be homely, nothing to look at, a tender root, very weak looking, etc.

Josephus' account is interesting but uninspired.  If his description is correct, then I have never seen a picture anything like a true representation of the Lord.

[Fidei Defensor]

4 minutes ago, Don19 said:

I don't have a positive view of Lutheranism. It's not the gospel. Lutheranism teaches a form of baptismal regeneration and denies eternal security.

Luther preached salvation by grace through faith in Christ Alone: Sola Gratia Sola Fide Solus Christus. Luther was quoting Ephesians 2:8-9, Philipoians 3:9, and Acts 15:11. 

There are many sects of Lutheranism, even the new Byzantine Rite Lutheranism. Many of these sects see doctrine differently. 

[David1701]

27 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Here are the parameters for salvation according to the Apostles Paul and John: 

“If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,”and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.” (Romans 10:9-10)

”For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.” (John 3:16-18) 

“And they (Paul and Silas) said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house./And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” (Acts 16:31) 

Lutherans fufill these passages at Confirmation. They confess with their mouth and believe in their hearts.  

Anyone who is born again already, will not wait for "confirmation" to profess faith in the Lord.

[Fidei Defensor]

Just now, David1701 said:

Anyone who is born again already, will not wait for "confirmation" to profess faith in the Lord.

Semantics, Comfirmation or Chrismation is simply the public confession of faith a disciple says (Romans 10:9-10). 

[David1701]

27 minutes ago, ChickenCoop said:

@David1701 

The theif on the cross beside Jesus became a believer at the last moment and was saved.  He didn't have any type of baptism. 

 

Quite right.  Baptism is not necessary in order to be saved, it is a command to be obeyed, once a person has been saved (and the thief on the cross was not at fault, since he was unable to become baptised).

P.S. I don't know if Americans use the expression "quite right".  We use it to mean "completely right".  I'm sure you know this already but this is for any Americans who might not.

Edited July 18, 2020 by David1701

[David1701]

1 minute ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Semantics, Comfirmation or Chrismation is simply the public confession of faith a disciple says (Romans 10:9-10). 

The public confession will already have happened, if the person is already born again, possibly a long time before the man-made tradition of "confirmation".   This is not semantics but life.