Is God Responsible For The Evil In The World? No He Is Not.

JAG** · July 23, 2020

11 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

Isaiah 45:7 disagrees with you.

New International Version
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

New American Standard Bible
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.

New King James Version
I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.’

"I form the light and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." KJV

Calamity, disaster or evil, God creates it, allows it - for a purpose.

You don't get the big picture. We would not understand what good is, His attributes nor appreciate them unless we know EVIL. When we experience evil and good comes along, it is so wonderful. We couldn't understand faith, mercy, forgiveness, love, hope, Grace, healing or peace if we did not suffer some form of evil.

Think about the earthquake that hit Haiti that killed 300,000. Most would view that as something terrible, maybe evil. However, the world was blind and ignored the this impoverished country filled with evil vodoo and cruel leaders until this earthquake. Then immediately, mercy, help, goodness, food, kindness, compassion, love and the gospel flooded this country. What happened? Many saw the light, saw God and His true attributes and believed.

Calamity/disaster comes to punish or judge as well. Revelation is filled with the coming catastrophic events that will destroy over half of the population. God's wrath will be experienced by all sinners who have rejected Christ.

Evil is approaching its precipice and will soon be put down.

This does not say that man is not responsible for sin. Sin is breaking God's commandments.

Nevertheless, God is sovereign. He has a perfect plan.

Ronald,

Thank you for your comments.

You said "Isaiah 45:7 disagrees with you."__Ronald Bruno

Isaiah 45:7 does not disagree with my Opening Post.

My Opening Post does not disagree with Isaiah 45:7

Both Isaiah 45:7 AND my Opening Post are true.

I wrote the following in my Opening Post.

Isaiah 45:7 does not disagree with this below:

JAG Wrote:

Man's Free Will is responsible for all the evil in the would.
God created a perfect world.
God created perfect human beings.
God gave human beings a Free Will.
Human beings used their Free Will to choose to do evil.
Human beings choosing to do evil is the reason we have
natural disasters and evil in the world-- and the reason
we have The Curse upon the Earth.:___JAG

I DO get the Big Picture.

Genesis {and the New Testament} does in fact clearly teach what I just wrote up-post.

_____________

You said in your post "This does not say that man is not responsible for sin."___Ronald Bruno

I feel sure you would fully agree that THE JUDGE below made a serious mistake and that

HENRY was incorrect. My Opening Post seeks to put the blame on "HENRY" and remove the

blame from God. As you probably know there are large numbers of atheists on the Internet

that blame the God-That-Does-Not-Exist for all the evil in the world and THEY QUOTE ISAIAH 45:7

all the time in threads as a proof text that the God of the Bible is evil for creating evil.

HENRY AND THE JUDGE:

HENRY: Yes Your Honor it is true that I robbed that bank and killed those 3 bank tellers,

however Your Honor I am NOT primarily responsible for robbing that bank and killing those

3 bank tellers because Ronald Bruno told me about Isaiah 45:7 that says it is God

that created all things and so Your Honor it is God that is primarily responsible and

not me. Your Honor, Ronald Bruno reports that in Isaiah 45:7 the New King James Version

says that "I the LORD . . .create evil" so Your Honor me and my Free Will is NOT

primarily responsible for me robbing that bank and killing those 3 bank tellers.

THE JUDGE: Thank you so much for explaining all that to me. I fully understand and

case dismissed.

HENRY: Thank you so much Your Honor, for dismissing my case. I am glad I do not have to

go to jail.

______________

Best

JAG

Justin Adams · July 23, 2020

5 minutes ago, JAG** said:

Man's Free Will is responsible for all the evil in the would.

Read Gen 6 and Deut 32:8 and a whole other bunch of scriptures. Do not blame mankind for all of it.

Sure, Adam fell and we inherited death, but it requires fallen holy ones to really get into the depths of depravity we see today. God even brought the deluge to wipe most of it out, but Babylon demonstrates that the 'forbidden knowledge' from the 'angels that sinned' was still in effect after the flood.

JAG** · July 23, 2020

10 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Read Gen 6 and Deut 32:8 and a whole other bunch of scriptures.

Do not blame mankind for all of it.

Sure, Adam fell and we inherited death, but it requires fallen

holy ones to really get into the depths of depravity we see

today. God even brought the deluge to wipe most of it out,

but Babylon demonstrates that the 'forbidden knowledge'

from the 'angels that sinned' was still in effect after the flood.

Regarding "blame":

If we do not blame mankind for all of it, then who do we blame?

What are their names?

In the Bible there is:

{1} God {Father , Son, Holy Spirit}

{2} Good Angles

{3} Evil Fallen Angles.

{4} Mankind

The title of this thread asks "Is God Responsible For The Evil In The World? No He Is Not."

Exactly WHO gets the "blame" for all this below?

Looting of stores

Burning police cars

Rioting in the streets

Throwing bricks through store front windows

Shooting police officers

Of these 4 below which ones are to "blame" for all that up there?

{1} God {Father , Son, Holy Spirit}

{2} Good Angles

{3} Evil Fallen Angles.

{4} Mankind

_________

JAG

Scot me up Beamy.

`

JAG** · July 23, 2020

1 hour ago, Michael37 said:

Hi JAG**, Yes, disobedience to God, whether by Satan, Adam & Eve, or any

coming after them including ourselves, does give cause for thought about

why our Creator made his creatures with the capacity to oppose and deny

Him, and why He has instigated a Creation with the potential to bring

suffering and sorrow into being.

I like to think that having eternity at His disposal God has eliminated

all other possibilities in favour of the existence we have been given, and

that the current juxtaposition of the eternal & infinite with the temporal

& finite will ultimately prove to be worth more than we can presently imagine.

2Co 4:7-18 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. (8) We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; (9) Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; (10) Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. (11) For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. (12) So then death works in us, but life in you. (13) We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; (14) Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you. (15) For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God. (16) For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. (17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, works for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; (18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

@JAG** Thanks for an excellent topic on which to comment.

Blessings from Michael37

Thank you Michael and thanks for your comments which made a positive contribution to the thread.

JAG

DeighAnn · July 23, 2020

5 hours ago, SONshine said:

Why believe in a God if he is powerless to save you? Just believing in Jesus isn't faith.

Do you understand

that the end of "this flesh life" isn't death at all?

NOT ONE SOUL HAS DIED.

Not one. Yes, they have moved on to paradise, STILL alive. God is the God of the living, not the dead.

GOD is not powerless as faith will tell you.

BUT with freewill and the fallen state we live in, under the prince of the power of the air PUT TOGETHER with our not following Gods laws and this is where we are. But when you really understand that, and that can ONLY be found in the TRUTH of the Word, you SEE.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Has someone told you you don't need to study HIS WORDS? It is through HIS WORD that peace is found. When you come to know God, the things of this world, the happenings in this world take on a whole new meaning. Instead of sadness you find peace. NOT just the word PEACE, but the FEELING of it. The understanding of Why we are here, What is going on, Why evil is abounding and a billion other questions are answered.

Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves

Matthew 10:26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.

Matthew 10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Colossians 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Colossians 2:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Worshipping angels is bad. Worshipping anyone other than GOD violates the first commandment

2I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

ONE GOD. All of us are the same whether in heaven or on earth.. God is not a respecter of persons. Mary was a person.

DeighAnn · July 23, 2020

29 minutes ago, SONshine said:

@DeighAnn Hi .... Above, did you quote me by mistake? (That was a statement by Brian)

Yes, I did. My mistake. I am sorry, Two times in two days. :th_frusty:

RonaldBruno · July 23, 2020

On 7/23/2020 at 6:43 AM, JAG** said:

Man's Free Will is responsible for all the evil in the would.

God ceates camality, disasters, evil according to the scripture.

Man sins, which is a violation of Gods laws. Man is responsible for sin. But the consequences and results has to do with whether God decides to prevent it, restrain it or let it grow into a disaster.

Many things we do could result in calamity, if God allows them to progress. Our actions could have serious reprecussions, if it was'nt for a mericiful God who watches over us. Evil left to itself and unrestrained would have destroyed us before we had a chance to live.

As far as free will, it isn't so free. We are either slaves to God or slaves to Satan.

If we had free will, it would mean that there would not be a cost for our actions. At the end of life, ther would no judgment, we would be free, with no one to answer to. We would be free to will ourselves anywhere. There could not be judgment. Since there is a God, who gave us laws to abide by, we can willingly disobey, but there are consequences.

Finally if your will was free, neither God nor Satan could influence or guide you to do anything. God could not draw you to Himself, you would be free of any mental/ spiritual suggestions/forces.

When we are saved, we are then free to serve God. If not, you are free to serve Satan.

Edited July 24, 2020 by RonaldBruno
spelling

JAG** · July 23, 2020

3 minutes ago, RonaldBruno said:

As far as free will, it isn't so free.

If we had free will, it would mean that there would not be a cost for our actions.

At the end if life, no judgment, we would be free. Free to will ourselves anywhere, not having to answer to anyone.

Finally if your will was free, God nor Satan could influence or guide you to do anything.

God could not draw you to Himself, you would be free of any mental/ spiritual suggestions.

My view is that you may believe that, but there is not a single Bible verse that says what you say about Free Will.

But there are dozens of clear Bible verses that assume all Christians and all non-Christians have a Free Will.

"Choose you this day whom you will serve"__Joshua And there are dozens of other verses that assume Free Will.

My view is that you do not understand what the Bible teaches about Free Will.

Did the people who did the following use their Free Will to choose to do these things?

Looting of stores

Burning police cars

Rioting in the streets

Throwing bricks through store front windows

Shooting police officers

____________________________________________

I leave you with , , ,

HENRY AND THE JUDGE:

HENRY: Yes Your Honor it is true that I robbed that bank and killed those 3 bank tellers,

however Your Honor I am NOT primarily responsible for robbing that bank and killing those

3 bank tellers because Ronald Bruno told me about Isaiah 45:7 that says it is God

that created all things and so Your Honor it is God that is primarily responsible and

not me. Your Honor, Ronald Bruno reports that in Isaiah 45:7 the New King James Version

says that "I the LORD . . .create evil" so Your Honor me and my Free Will is NOT

primarily responsible for me robbing that bank and killing those 3 bank tellers

THE JUDGE: Thank you so much for explaining all that to me. I fully understand and

case dismissed.

HENRY: Thank you so much Your Honor, for dismissing my case. I am glad I do not have to

go to jail.

_________

Best.

JAG

JAG** · July 23, 2020

12 minutes ago, Josheb said:

And what would Epicurus say to the moment God stopped him from doing the evil he desired? And the next moment? And the next? And the next?

And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next? And the next?

Epicurus was not as smart as he may have imagined himself to be; he was instead quite foolish.

I don't know what Old Eppie would say.

You are looking at Old Eppie from the standpoint of a Christian.

My Opening Post is looking at Old Eppie from the standpoint of

Internet Atheism which appeals to Old Eppie all the time in their

constant attacks on the God of the Bible as being evil as explained

in the Opening Post.

Agreed.

Old Eppie was not as smart as he thought he was --none of his kind is.

JAG

Scot me up Beamy.

____________

From the Opening Post:

JAG Wrote:

The "New Atheists" do not correctly understand the Biblical
doctrine of the Omnipotence {all-powerful} of God.

Epicurus did not correctly understand the Christian doctrine of
God's Omnipotence. God's Omnipotence does not mean that
He can do anything. God cannot create square circles. God
cannot make 2 + 2 = 7. God cannot give humans the Free Will
to do evil and at the same time prevent humans from doing evil.

The fatal flaw in Epicurus is he misunderstood the Christian
doctrine of the Omnipotence of the God of the Bible.

Conclusion: Mankind, NOT God, is the cause of sin, evil, and
natural disasters in the world.

``

Edited July 23, 2020 by JAG**

JAG** · July 23, 2020

21 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Can we modify that to say "Human volitional agency is responsible for the existence of evil in the world"?

Humans have never been "free" in the sense that they exist autonomously apart from the Creator.

Neither has the human ability to make real choices ever existed in an unfettered or autonomous state;

it has always existed within the confines of certain limiting factors, whether they be the sovereignty

and power of God, the spatio-temporal limits of creation, or the human's own ignorance and other

cognitive limitations.

My understanding of human Free Will is NOT that Free Will makes man Sovereign.

Agreed. Man's Free Will has never been unfettered etc etc

_____________

What is your distinction between:

[1} Human volitional agency

and

{2} Human Free Will

_____________

What do you think about my , , ,