Is God Responsible For The Evil In The World? No He Is Not.

[JAG**]

On 7/25/2020 at 9:26 PM, RonaldBruno said:

Yes, obviously God does not sin. God does not cause man to sin either.

You have a different meaning for free?

As applied to a person's will, it would be Total independence, without a master, authority over you. Able to make decisions without a cost.

Since the wages of sin is death, one is not free to do as they please without a cost. Jesus paid the price for your redemption. You were a slave to Satan and now you are a slave to God.

Someone else explained to you but you do not want to accept it. We have volition, but it is not independent (free).

Maybe you are just steeped in that Arminian theology? I really can't explain it any more thorough than I have. 

So do you act independently of God and did you likewise act independently of Satan before you became a believer? This is a basic concept.

I  have no  idea what you are talking about. I am not an Armenian. I never said I was  was an Armenian.

You continue to make points that My Opening Post does not deny. You continue to make points that has zero to do with

my Opening Post. I never said that I acted independently of God. Where did you get that from? My Opening Post does not

say that. You are reading into my Opening Post ideas that are NOT in my Opening Post. We have  Free Will. I gave you  many Bible

verses that teach clearly that we  have Free Will. You can re-name Free Will and call it Volitional Agency but it is still Free Will.

A rose by another name is still a rose. 

 

You are attributing views and positions to me that I have NOT said I hold.  

 

 

John 7:17 

"Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my

teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own."

A clear and solid Bible verses that teaches Free Will

__________________

Joshua 24:15

"But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for

yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your

ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the

Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and

my household, we will serve the LORD."

____________

Revelation 3:20

"Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the

door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me."

Assumes that the readers will use their Free Will to choose to open the door.

___________________

 

John 3:16

"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whosoever

believes on Him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Assumes that the person hearing this will use their Free Will to choose to believe

on the Lord Jesus and receive eternal life.

________________

 

The  people who recently committed  the following sins and crimes  used their Free Will to choose to do these sins and crimes.

To claim they used their "Volitional Agency" is nothing but playing a "word game." You are re-naming Free Will and

calling it by another name.  If you can do that, then I can do that too.  I can re-name Volitional Agency and call it Free Will.

Looting of stores

Burning police cars

Rioting in the streets 

Throwing bricks through  store front windows

Shooting police officers 

 

__________

 

The word "evil" means "disaster" and does not men sin.

^"I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.___Isaiah 45:7 NIV

Bible Gateway has 57 different English translations of Isaiah 45:7 and none of them translate it like this:

^"I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create SIN; I, the LORD, do all these things."

So?

So Isaiah 45:7 is not saying that God causes men to choose to commit sins.

 

_______________

  And my dialogue between  Henry and The Judge still stands true and unrefuted in the point that it made.

 

HENRY AND THE JUDGE:

HENRY:  Yes Your Honor it is true that I robbed that bank and killed those 3 bank tellers, 

however Your Honor I am NOT primarily responsible for robbing that bank and killing those

3 bank tellers because Ronald Bruno told me about Isaiah  45:7 that says it is God

that created  all things and so Your Honor it is  God that is  primarily responsible and

not me. Your Honor, Ronald Bruno reports that in Isaiah 45:7 the New King James Version

says that "I the LORD . . .create evil" so Your Honor   me and my  Free Will is NOT

primarily responsible  for me robbing that  bank and killing those 3 bank tellers

 

THE JUDGE: Thank you so much for explaining all that to me. I fully understand and 

case dismissed.

 

HENRY: Thank you so much Your Honor, for dismissing my case. I am glad I do not have to

go to jail. 

 

You  can claim that Henry up there did not use his Free Will to rob that bank and murder those

3 bank tellers but the fact is that he DID use his Free Will to do that --- and you re-naming Henry's

Free Will and calling it Volitional Agency is not gong to change the reality that Henry's used his

Free Will to rob that bank and murder those 3 bank tellers.

 

JAG

 

[Michael37]

7 hours ago, JAG** said:

I  have no  idea what you are talking about. I am not an Armenian. I never said I was  was an Armenian.

We need to dispense with the dogmas and categories of the Calvinist -Arminian dichotomy. Both are flawed and adherence to either means limiting God to man's perception and concepts. 

In response to some erroneous preaching on the subject of predetermination taking place I stood up and very concisely proclaimed that predetermination and freewill are not mutually exclusive.  

I regularly use a four dimensional framework to describe the interactions between God and man. I believe God has created us with a dimension of freewill which He wants us to exercise in harmony with His Will.

1. Foreknowledge - God always knows everything, if He doesn't then He isn't God.

 

2. Predestination - God predestines elements of existence, such as the Laws of Nature, the criteria for salvation, and the outcome of Judgment Day.

 

3. Freewill - God calls everyone to repentance and actively works on our freewill to lead us to repentance from dead works and to faith towards Him.

 

4. Divine Intervention - God knows those who are His and does whatever He wills to do according to His wisdom, mercy, and grace.  

None of these is mutually exclusive of the others, and in His eternal foreknowledge God is always intimately acquainted with all those who will eventually populate heaven, and has predestined them to be conformed to the image of His Son.

[branchesofHim]

10 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

None of these is mutually exclusive of the others, and in His eternal foreknowledge God is always intimately acquainted with all those who will eventually populate heaven, and has predestined them to be conformed to the image of His Son.

Blessed be Christ Jesus for the truth in your post. Shalom.

[branchesofHim]

Jeremiah 32:[26] Then came the word of the LORD unto Jeremiah, saying,
[27] Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?

[Fidei Defensor]

Anything that bad happens is because of this: 

“20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope
21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.
23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.” (Romans 8:20-23)

[JAG**]

9 hours ago, Michael37 said:

We need to dispense with the dogmas and categories of the Calvinist -Arminian dichotomy. Both are flawed and adherence to either means limiting God to man's perception and concepts. 

In response to some erroneous preaching on the subject of predetermination taking place I stood up and very concisely proclaimed that predetermination and freewill are not mutually exclusive.  

I regularly use a four dimensional framework to describe the interactions between God and man. I believe God has created us with a dimension of freewill which He wants us to exercise in harmony with His Will.

1. Foreknowledge - God always knows everything, if He doesn't then He isn't God.

 

2. Predestination - God predestines elements of existence, such as the Laws of Nature, the criteria for salvation, and the outcome of Judgment Day.

 

3. Freewill - God calls everyone to repentance and actively works on our freewill to lead us to repentance from dead works and to faith towards Him.

 

4. Divine Intervention - God knows those who are His and does whatever He wills to do according to His wisdom, mercy, and grace.  

None of these is mutually exclusive of the others, and in His eternal foreknowledge God is always intimately acquainted with all those who will eventually populate heaven, and has predestined them to be conformed to the image of His Son.

 Thanks for  your comments.

You wrote:

"We need to dispense with the dogmas and categories of the Calvinist -Arminian dichotomy. Both are

flawed and adherence to either means limiting God to man's perception and concepts."___Michael 

My Opening Post has got nothing to do with Calvinism or Arminianism.  My Opening Post does NOT

mention the dogmas and categories of the Calvinist -Armenian dichotomy.  

______________

 

You quoted me as follows in the bolded red.

"I  have no  idea what you are talking about. I am not an Armenian. I never said I was  was an Armenian."___JAG

I wrote that in reply to a poster,  a gentlemen named Ronald Bruno who accused me of being an Armenian. I merely

wrote back and said what  you quoted me as saying,  in order to correct his mistake.

JAG

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by JAG**

[Michael37]

7 hours ago, JAG** said:

 Thanks for  your comments.

You wrote:

"We need to dispense with the dogmas and categories of the Calvinist -Arminian dichotomy. Both are

flawed and adherence to either means limiting God to man's perception and concepts."___Michael 

My Opening Post has got nothing to do with Calvinism or Arminianism.  My Opening Post does NOT

mention the dogmas and categories of the Calvinist -Armenian dichotomy.  

______________

 

You quoted me as follows in the bolded red.

"I  have no  idea what you are talking about. I am not an Armenian. I never said I was  was an Armenian."___JAG

I wrote that in reply to a poster,  a gentlemen named Ronald Bruno who accused me of being an Armenian. I merely

wrote back and said what  you quoted me as saying,  in order to correct his mistake.

JAG

 

Yes, as you have summarised, so I was aware. All good and understood.

In your research on this topic you may have come across the statement that "Calvin wasn't a Calvinist". Suffice to say that the polarisation that arises when predestination is pitted against freewill rather than appreciated along with it, is a work of the flesh and drags the unenlightened into theological error.  

[JAG**]

42 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Yes, as you have summarised, so I was aware. All good and understood.

In your research on this topic you may have come across the statement 

that "Calvin wasn't a Calvinist". Suffice to say that the polarisation that arises 

when predestination is pitted against freewill rather than appreciated along

with it, is a work of the flesh and drags the unenlightened into theological error.  

Michael,

Thanks for  your reply , , ,

I am with you in the "spirit" of what you wrote. The constant haggling back and 

forth between the two sides is not good. There was one Christian Forum that banned

any discussion of the Once Saved Always Saved topic because it required so much

sustained severe moderation that the Mods got worn out with it and they and the

Admin. got together and banned it totally. Of course the OSAS thingy is just one aspect

of the larger area of controversy. 

 

Christendom is not now unified --- but it will be one day.

Best.

JAG

Edited July 29, 2020 by JAG**