The Pre Tribulation Raptured Church

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

You can imagine it did. Somehow I cannot.  Perhaps "the reason why I can't" is because these events are FUTURE.  Did the man of sin enter the temple, SIT DOWN in the temple, and declare he was GOD, in 70 AD?  Can you find that written somewhere, even in secular history? 

Shalom, iamlamad.

No, but then the "man of sin" or the "man against God's Law" has not come on the scene, yet (that we know). On the other hand, NOWHERE in Scripture does it say that this act he performs is the "abomination of desolation" abut which the messenger tells Daniel or that Yeshua` talked about in the Olivet Discourse!

Just like you can't find a verse that equates the 70th Seven of Daniel 9 to the tribulation, you also can't find a verse that equates the abomination of desolation to the actions of the man against God's Law! This is all the FICTION of particular prophetic viewpoints! And, the people who espouse these positions have made it a POINT to create and endorse this FICTION!

(I'm using the computer symbol in C#: <> for "not equal to.")

Tribulation <> 70th Seven
man of sin <> abomination of desolation

To say that these two ARE equal instead of NOT equal is to introduce ERROR!

[iamlamad]

18 hours ago, Spock said:

I’m curious, Have you posted this somewhere?  
where in Revelation....chapter, verse

a. Beginning of week......

b. Mid point....

edit:  never mind, I found it...

7th seal....... covenant confirmed

7th trumpet......abomination of desolation...

thanks....let me go reread each again...

 

2nd edit: 

7th trumpet:

15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.”

Spock question:  just curious, why do you think the loud voices in heaven say the kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord” at the abomination of desolation? 

I have posted word for word, every word God has spoken to be about Revelation at one time or another. I'll be honest, most people seem think I heard from a different spirit. I can only guess, very thick preconceived glasses. They prevent people from understanding even very clear verses. 

Yes, the 70th-week is marked by 7's: how like God!

Notice that those in Judea were told the flee the second that heard or saw the abomination. That fleeing is in 12:6 making 12:6 only seconds after the abomination. 

Why? I think because God has it planned so that the man if sin will declare he is GOD the very same time that Adam's 6000 year lease ENDS. Suddenly Satan will have no more legal hold to planet earth. His ONLY legal hold was that he usurped Adam's lease and with that Adam's authority. 

[The Light]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Oh no! It is not that at all. It is just that you have been preprogramed with PREWRATH, so any scriptures to the contrary just slip off like water off a duck's back.

What are you talking about, preprogrammed? You do realize that I believe in a pretrib rapture of the Church?

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

 

Then, you just IGNORE other scriptures as if they were not there (or ignore them because of your preprograming). Case in point: Rev. 5:6.

First off, your preprogramming comment is baloney. I have never read a single prewrath book or listened to anyone teach on it. Anytime you can throw out some scripture that can disprove what I'm saying, bring it on. I'm listening. Problem is, I don't think you'll catch me using my imagination so it will be hard to disprove. On the flip side, if you can use scripture to disprove something I believe, I will be grateful, as I'm interested in the truth (not what you perceive as truth). As for you Rev 5:6 comment, you did not give me any specifics to address.

Please tell me what point point you are trying to prove about Revelation 5:6 that I am missing and I will address it.

 

 

 

[iamlamad]

38 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, iamlamad.

No, but then the "man of sin" or the "man against God's Law" has not come on the scene, yet (that we know). On the other hand, NOWHERE in Scripture does it say that this act he performs is the "abomination of desolation" abut which the messenger tells Daniel or that Yeshua` talked about in the Olivet Discourse!

Just like you can't find a verse that equates the 70th Seven of Daniel 9 to the tribulation, you also can't find a verse that equates the abomination of desolation to the actions of the man against God's Law! This is all the FICTION of particular prophetic viewpoints! And, the people who espouse these positions have made it a POINT to create and endorse this FICTION!

(I'm using the computer symbol in C#: <> for "not equal to.")

Tribulation <> 70th Seven
man of sin <> abomination of desolation

To say that these two ARE equal instead of NOT equal is to introduce ERROR!

the "man of sin" or the "man against God's Law" has not come on the scene, yet (that we know).  hmmm. That is why we believe much of Revelation is FUTURE. (Some seem to think that is a bad word.)
Agreed: God did not write it out in plain words exactly what the "abomination" Jesus spoke of would be. However, God DID give us a TYPE in Antiochus Epiphanes.  Then, we can be quite certain from other scriptures that if ANYONE other than the High Priest would enter the Most Holy place, and He ONLY on the right day of the year, that entry would be an abomination. The daily sacrifices would have to cease and a red Heifer would have to be found. It seems God did not lay this all out for us ON PURPOSE. 

you can't find a verse that equates the 70th Seven of Daniel 9 to the tribulation  Hmmm. There are two passages that use "the tribulation" in the KJV. John said "I John in THE tribulation."  Then Jesus said, "after 'the tribulation' of those days...." No place in scripture seems to put that title to any specific period of time. Jesus comes close, because He had just talked about the days of Great Tribulation.  From Revelation we can determine  that the days of GT would start after the warning not to take the mark in chapter 14, and continue on until the vials that will "shorten" those days. Then John told us what would CAUSE "those days" of tribulation: it would be the Beast and False prophet forcing people to worship and idol or losing their head, or receiving a mark or losing their head. John gives us a good hint that the enforcing of the mark would start at the end of chapter 14. The beheaded show up in heaven in chapter 15. So, NO, not in so many words. But a strong hint that the 70th week and "the tribulation" are synonymous terms. 

you also can't find a verse that equates the abomination of desolation to the actions of the man against God's Law!  Again, not in those exact words, but Paul tells us of an event that most certainly would be an abomination: the man of sin seating himself in the Holy of Holies. (He will probably be a Gentile. There is no hint he is the high Priest!)

This is all the FICTION   There are VERY strong hints of it.

Tribulation <> 70th Seven  I disagree. Define "the tribulation."

man of sin <> abomination of desolation  I disagree: I believe the Old Testament tells us when ANYONE other than the high priest would enter the Holy of Holies, that would be an abomination. 

[iamlamad]

Just now, The Light said:

What are you talking about, preprogrammed? You do realize that I believe in a pretrib rapture of the Church?

First off, your preprogramming comment is baloney. I have never read a single prewrath book or listened to anyone teach on it. Anytime you can throw out some scripture that can disprove what I'm saying, bring it on. I'm listening. Problem is, I don't think you'll catch me using my imagination so it will be hard to disprove. On the flip side, if you can use scripture to disprove something I believe, I will be grateful, as I'm interested in the truth (not what you perceive as truth). As for you Rev 5:6 comment, you did not give me any specifics to address.

Please tell me what point point you are trying to prove about Revelation 5:6 that I am missing and I will address it.

I'm listening.   No, you are not. We have been OVER AND OVER scriptures time and again. Let me look back to your previous posts. 

[iamlamad]

8 minutes ago, The Light said:

What are you talking about, preprogrammed? You do realize that I believe in a pretrib rapture of the Church?

First off, your preprogramming comment is baloney. I have never read a single prewrath book or listened to anyone teach on it. Anytime you can throw out some scripture that can disprove what I'm saying, bring it on. I'm listening. Problem is, I don't think you'll catch me using my imagination so it will be hard to disprove. On the flip side, if you can use scripture to disprove something I believe, I will be grateful, as I'm interested in the truth (not what you perceive as truth). As for you Rev 5:6 comment, you did not give me any specifics to address.

Please tell me what point point you are trying to prove about Revelation 5:6 that I am missing and I will address it.

Here is something you wrote:

"Of course I have the Great Tribulation in the seals. That is exactly where it belongs. "

We have been over and over this and you insist you are right, when in fact you are miles off.  Since you don't believe Revelation has any chronology, it is useless for us to discuss. It does not matter at all to you that God warns people not to take the mark (the very thing that will CAUSE days of GT) way back in chapter 14, and that the beheaded (from the days of GT) only show up in chapter 15. These proofs roll off your back like water off a duck's back.
 

Therefore, as I said, it is useless to enter into any kind of discussion with you. 

Added later: IF you saw it and If you remember, Dr. McCoy wanted to talk to Spock about his death and rebirth. Spock said "we would have no point of reference." McCoy said, "My God! You mean I have to die to talk  to you about death?" (or something close to that.)

My point is, we see the bible differently, so we have no point of reference. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by iamlamad

[The Light]

10 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I'm listening.   No, you are not. We have been OVER AND OVER scriptures time and again. Let me look back to your previous posts. 

Yeah, when the rubber meet the road, you get a flat tire every time.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

APPLES AND ORANGES..  YOU SAY CHRONOLOGICAL   I SAY NO.  

WHAT ABOUT MY POSITION ARE YOU NOT GETTING? 

YOU ASK QUESTIONS THAT YOU KNOW COME FROM OUR BASIC DIVIDING OF THE WORD.  

WHATS THE POINT?  

OH, AND I SEE ALL THE LACK OF GODS WORD, IN FAVOR OF ALL YOUR OWN WORDS AGAIN.

So you are saying - if I understand you - you feel free to move these verses SOMEWHERE ELSE in Revelation?

Revelation 19:7  Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Revelation 19:9  And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

There is ample proof that John is introduced to something new RIGHT THEN, in His narrative. We can easily tell WHEN here because after the marriage and supper, He gets on the white horse.  Of course I mean AFTER. 

You imagine no chronology: yet John numbers events one group after another for the proper ORDER. 7 seals, 7 trumpet, 7 vials; 3 woes tied to the last 3 trumpets. This is SEQUENCE. Then he used the word AFTER 11 times in Revelation: yet after all this some people imagine it is not Chronological - and without any proof. 

Common sense tells us it is written IN AN ORDER. If someone challenges that order, then they must have PROOF. 

So please tell us all: HOW IN THE WORLD are you going to get to heaven for the marriage? It is a simple question. 

Just to help you a little: pretribbers will already BE THERE. 

[iamlamad]

Just now, The Light said:

Yeah, when the rubber meet the road, you get a flat tire every time.

No, sorry, no flat tire. I know the Revelation road better than you do. You just don't believe that - yet. 

[The Light]

Just now, iamlamad said:

No, sorry, no flat tire. I know the Revelation road better than you do. You just don't believe that - yet. 

If you know so much then why can't you address anything I post with scriptures that prove what I'm saying is wrong.

Why are you doing the usual cut and run when I asked you to pinpoint your problem with Rev 5:6.