Human Free Will Responsible For Drowned Children In The Genesis Flood.

[JAG**]

JAG Writes:

The takeaway point in this piece is that atheists are incorrect in accusing 

the God of the Bible of being immoral because He drowned children in

the Genesis Flood. 

Regarding  children: It is unreasonable to suggest that there were no children

in the Earth at the time of the Genesis Flood. There has never been a large

society of humans that did not have people of all ages from new-born's

to teens to young adults to middle ages to the very old -- and it is unreasonable 

to suggest  that the people drowned in the Genesis Flood were any different

than other large societies of humans.

So my view is that God did drown children.

Question: Why do an Opening Post on this issue? Because atheists on the

Internet At Large constantly bring up this issue in their attacks on the God

of the Bible and they learned it from that list of atheists in the first paragraph

down below:

Now for the Opening Post , , ,

Many atheists unjustly accuse the God of the Bible of drowning children in the
Genesis Flood. They are wrong. The Flood was not God's fault, it was the fault
of fallen evil human beings. The likes of Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel
Dennett, the late Christopher Hitchens, Matt Dillahunty all accuse the God of the
Bible of drowning children during the Genesis Flood.

God was right and just in drowning every living being during The Great Flood.
Why?

Because a vital part of the narrative of The Great Flood was the total wickedness
and murderous violence of the people living at the time of The Great Flood.

If we take any part of the Genesis narrative seriously, we have to take all of it
seriously. 

The Genesis narrative says that God did drown all living beings at the time of The
Great Flood.

The Genesis narrative ALSO explains WHY God made the decision to drown them.

Here is why:

"The Lord saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become and that every
inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time." Genesis 6:5

"Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight and was full of violence . . .for all the people
of earth had corrupted their ways" Genesis 6:11

We take the narrative that God drowned them seriously and as being historically true.

We then ALSO have to take Genesis 6:5 and Genesis 6:11 seriously and as being
historically true.

If we do NOT take the Genesis narrative that God drowned them as historically true,
then you have no moral problem with God {this said to atheists}

If we DO take Genesis 6:5 and Genesis 6:11 as historically true then you should have
no moral problem with God. {this said to atheists}

Note that the wickedness of man was great and that "every inclination of the thoughts
of his heart was only evil all the time, and that the earth "was corrupt and full of violence."

These people were not salvageable.

Total wickedness. Murderous violence.

And both of those all the time, not just some of the time.

_______________

Free Will.

The institution of Free Will.

Parents are morally responsible for what happens to their children when

it is the parents that make Free Will decisions to choose to do evil.

It was wholly the moral fault of the parents living at the time of

The Great Flood because it was THEY that made the decision to

plunge into total wickedness and murderous violence.

And to do that all the time . . . ALL the time.

Here is the principle:

The reality and presence of innocent children cannot void and nullify the institution of Free Will.

Therefore what parents choose to do, will determine what happens to their children.

For example, mothers who use their Free Will to choose to take harmful illegal drugs

during their pregnancies can expect their innocent babies to be born with serious

health problems.

These mothers cannot say to God, "Please void out and nullify my Free Will because

I am carrying an innocent helpless human baby."

No, the mother is the one morally responsible for her Free Will decision to consume

harmful illegal drugs during her pregnancy.

Humans cannot point to their innocent children and say to God, "Do not punish me for

my total plunge into wickedness and murderous violence because if you punish me, you

will also harm my innocent children --- in  the Genesis Flood.

____________

Classic Historical Example Of This Free Will Principle:

Germany During World War ll

When Germany's parents made the social and political decision to follow Adolph Hitler

and embrace Nazism, they also made the decision to put their innocent children at risk

of serious harm. The parents of Germany could not say to The Allies (or to God) do not

try to put a stop to our Nazism because if you do that, you will harm our innocent children.

So?

So the drowning of the children at the time of The Great Flood was wholly the immoral

fault of the parents who lived at that time, and made the Free Will decision to plunge

into total wickedness and murderous violence.

And to do that ALL the time . . not just occasionally, but ALL the time.

What say you?

W

 

[JAG**]

JAG Writes:

Speculation:

Regarding The Children Drowned in The Genesis Flood:

What follows in this post is pure 100% speculation and is NOT presented as an
argument or as being factually true.

What follows is nothing more than me speculating on what might have happened.

What follows carries no weight whatsoever.

Here we go:

We know that God is merciful and that He loves the human race and sent His Son

the Lord Jesus to die on a cruel cross to pay for the sins of the human race so they

could be redeemed.

1 John 4:16 "God is love."

John 3:16 "for God so loved the world"

So on Christian doctrine God loves the world. And therefore it is reasonable to

speculate on what this God who loves the world, might have done
for those children during The Great Flood.

We do not know what God does in the unseen world. Maybe God took the souls

of the children out of their bodies before they drowned in The Great Flood, so

they did not have to endure the agony of being drowned.

If God did not do that, then maybe He gave the children special grace to bear

the drowning so that it was not a horrifying experience for them

If neither of the above is true, then the children experienced about 8 to 12 minutes

of drowning agony, after which they found themselves in the eternal happiness of

Heaven. On Christian doctrine God saves the souls of all children who have not

reached the age of moral accountability (whatever age that is).

Psalm 116:15 "Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of His saints."

Why so? Because He takes them into Heaven to be with Him for all eternity.

God Bless.

 

JAG

 

 

``

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, JAG** said:

JAG Writes:

 

 

Hi JAG,

Interesting. Thank you for laying it out. I have noticed that atheists have `pet` questions regarding God`s character. Good to be able to refute them.

[R. Hartono]

Parents are responsible for the salvation of their children, they didnt believe Noah n didnt allow their family to believe Noah either.

[R. Hartono]

Do not debate with atheists, just thrust them with God's words n leave it. We cud only pray n share kindness n love, the rest is Holy Spirit's job.

[Michael37]

3 hours ago, JAG** said:

JAG Writes:

The takeaway point in this piece is that atheists are incorrect in accusing 

the God of the Bible of being immoral because He drowned children in

the Genesis Flood. 

Hi JAG**, This is an area that some Christians also struggle with. On the one hand we have God's Love and on the other we have His Judgment. While it seems unjust for God to bring purges, penalties and punishments on helpless humans, and callous for Him to allow prejudices, persecutions, and painful experiences to befall His faithful ones, we can be sure that no-one is denied God's mercy whose heart is right before Him.

Mat 13:47-50  Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:  (48)  Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.  (49)  So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,  (50)  And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

While the Imprecatory Psalms advocate taking revenge against enemies and wrongdoers, and come across as requests for God to be vindictive and vengeful, these emotive expressions serve as reminders of human reactions to adverse circumstances rather than as examples of unjust and immoral dealings by God.

Psa 137:7-9  Remember, O LORD, the children of Edom in the day of Jerusalem; who said, Raise it, raise it, even to the foundation thereof.  (8)  O daughter of Babylon, who are to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewards you as you have served us.  (9)  Happy shall he be, that takes and dashes your little ones against the stones.

This is said in the knowledge of Isaiah's prophecy of Babylon reaping what it has sown: 

Isa 13:13-19  Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.  (14)  And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.  (15)  Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.  (16)  Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.  (17)  Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.  (18)  Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children.  (19)  And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

Further Information: Wkpd: Imprecatory Psalms

[David1701]

13 hours ago, JAG** said:

JAG Writes:

The takeaway point in this piece is that atheists are incorrect in accusing 

the God of the Bible of being immoral because He drowned children in

the Genesis Flood. 

Regarding  children: It is unreasonable to suggest that there were no children

in the Earth at the time of the Genesis Flood. There has never been a large

society of humans that did not have people of all ages from new-born's

to teens to young adults to middle ages to the very old -- and it is unreasonable 

to suggest  that the people drowned in the Genesis Flood were any different

than other large societies of humans.

So my view is that God did drown children.

Question: Why do an Opening Post on this issue? Because atheists on the

Internet At Large constantly bring up this issue in their attacks on the God

of the Bible and they learned it from that list of atheists in the first paragraph

down below:

Now for the Opening Post , , ,

Many atheists unjustly accuse the God of the Bible of drowning children in the
Genesis Flood. They are wrong. The Flood was not God's fault, it was the fault
of fallen evil human beings. The likes of Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel
Dennett, the late Christopher Hitchens, Matt Dillahunty all accuse the God of the
Bible of drowning children during the Genesis Flood.

God was right and just in drowning every living being during The Great Flood.
Why?

Because a vital part of the narrative of The Great Flood was the total wickedness
and murderous violence of the people living at the time of The Great Flood.

If we take any part of the Genesis narrative seriously, we have to take all of it
seriously. 

The Genesis narrative says that God did drown all living beings at the time of The
Great Flood.

The Genesis narrative ALSO explains WHY God made the decision to drown them.

Here is why:

"The Lord saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become and that every
inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time." Genesis 6:5

"Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight and was full of violence . . .for all the people
of earth had corrupted their ways" Genesis 6:11

We take the narrative that God drowned them seriously and as being historically true.

We then ALSO have to take Genesis 6:5 and Genesis 6:11 seriously and as being
historically true.

If we do NOT take the Genesis narrative that God drowned them as historically true,
then you have no moral problem with God {this said to atheists}

If we DO take Genesis 6:5 and Genesis 6:11 as historically true then you should have
no moral problem with God. {this said to atheists}

Note that the wickedness of man was great and that "every inclination of the thoughts
of his heart was only evil all the time, and that the earth "was corrupt and full of violence."

These people were not salvageable.

Total wickedness. Murderous violence.

And both of those all the time, not just some of the time.

_______________

Free Will.

The institution of Free Will.

Parents are morally responsible for what happens to their children when

it is the parents that make Free Will decisions to choose to do evil.

It was wholly the moral fault of the parents living at the time of

The Great Flood because it was THEY that made the decision to

plunge into total wickedness and murderous violence.

And to do that all the time . . . ALL the time.

Here is the principle:

The reality and presence of innocent children cannot void and nullify the institution of Free Will.

Therefore what parents choose to do, will determine what happens to their children.

For example, mothers who use their Free Will to choose to take harmful illegal drugs

during their pregnancies can expect their innocent babies to be born with serious

health problems.

These mothers cannot say to God, "Please void out and nullify my Free Will because

I am carrying an innocent helpless human baby."

No, the mother is the one morally responsible for her Free Will decision to consume

harmful illegal drugs during her pregnancy.

Humans cannot point to their innocent children and say to God, "Do not punish me for

my total plunge into wickedness and murderous violence because if you punish me, you

will also harm my innocent children --- in  the Genesis Flood.

____________

Classic Historical Example Of This Free Will Principle:

Germany During World War ll

When Germany's parents made the social and political decision to follow Adolph Hitler

and embrace Nazism, they also made the decision to put their innocent children at risk

of serious harm. The parents of Germany could not say to The Allies (or to God) do not

try to put a stop to our Nazism because if you do that, you will harm our innocent children.

So?

So the drowning of the children at the time of The Great Flood was wholly the immoral

fault of the parents who lived at that time, and made the Free Will decision to plunge

into total wickedness and murderous violence.

And to do that ALL the time . . not just occasionally, but ALL the time.

What say you?

W

 

Since we are all born wicked (because Adam fell and he passed on his corruption), it would be just of God to kill every last one of us.  God loves righteousness and hates wickedness, so the amazing thing is that he saves any of us rebellious, wicked, hell-deserving sinners (young or old, rich or poor, it makes no difference).

The wonderful thing is that God is not only willing to show his justice and wrath but also his love and mercy; so, he chose a subset of humanity upon to whom to shower his undeserved mercy and grace, for his name's sake, and to our great blessing.  This is why the Lord Jesus Christ came to earth, to save his people from their sins (from Jews and Gentiles).

Can God save little children, who are not old enough to understand the gospel?  Yes, he can!

Luke 1:13-15 (KJV)

13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Luke 1:43,44 (KJV)

43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

God saved John the Baptist, in his mother's womb!

I said all that, to say this: the best answer to give atheists who complain about God killing young children is that we all deserve to die and it's only by God's grace that anyone is saved.

God is in control of all natural disasters (earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, plagues, etc.), so he has, directly or indirectly, killed millions of young children since the Flood.  Not a sparrow falls to the ground without the involvement of the Father, how much more is this true of humans.  The Lord gives and the Lord takes away, blessed be the name of the Lord.

 

[JAG**]

21 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi JAG,

Interesting. Thank you for laying it out. I have noticed that atheists have `pet` questions regarding God`s character. Good to be able to refute them.

Hello Marilyn, 

Thank you and thanks for the comment.

 

JAG

[JAG**]

19 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Parents are responsible for the salvation of their children, they didnt believe Noah n didnt allow their family to believe Noah either.

Thanks for the comment.

[JAG**]

18 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Hi JAG**, This is an area that some Christians also struggle with. On the one hand we have God's Love and on the other we have His Judgment. While it seems unjust for God to bring purges, penalties and punishments on helpless humans, and callous for Him to allow prejudices, persecutions, and painful experiences to befall His faithful ones, we can be sure that no-one is denied God's mercy whose heart is right before Him.

Mat 13:47-50  Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:  (48)  Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.  (49)  So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,  (50)  And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

While the Imprecatory Psalms advocate taking revenge against enemies and wrongdoers, and come across as requests for God to be vindictive and vengeful, these emotive expressions serve as reminders of human reactions to adverse circumstances rather than as examples of unjust and immoral dealings by God.

Psa 137:7-9  Remember, O LORD, the children of Edom in the day of Jerusalem; who said, Raise it, raise it, even to the foundation thereof.  (8)  O daughter of Babylon, who are to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewards you as you have served us.  (9)  Happy shall he be, that takes and dashes your little ones against the stones.

This is said in the knowledge of Isaiah's prophecy of Babylon reaping what it has sown: 

Isa 13:13-19  Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.  (14)  And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.  (15)  Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.  (16)  Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.  (17)  Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.  (18)  Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children.  (19)  And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

Further Information: Wkpd: Imprecatory Psalms

Thanks for your comments Michael. Christian Apologists  have written books

defending the God of the Bible from the attacks made against Him be atheists

because of such as the Imprecatory Psalms. One such book was written by

as associate of William Lane Craig, named Paul Copan. He wrote

"Is God A Moral Monster: Making  Sense Of The Old Testament God."

Paul Copan defends the God of the Bible against attacks made against Him

by atheists such as Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, the late Christopher Hitchens,

Daniel Dennett, and Matt Dillahunty.

amazon has it.

200 pages

Best.

 

JAG

 

``

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by JAG**