Human nature: Good or Bad?

[Fidei Defensor]

1 hour ago, johnthebaptist said:

I don't think it is wise to blame our mistakes on Adam and Eve.

And yet Scripture singles them out (Romans 5, Genesis 3). 

[johnthebaptist]

3 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

And yet Scripture singles them out (Romans 5, Genesis 3). 

Oh?

[Guest theElect777]

17 minutes ago, Glory To God said:

 

Well it seems pretty clear to me he understood what would happen. God himself warned him

 

Genesis 2:17

but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die

How would he understand what death is if he has never seen it or experienced it?   We take the Word of God for face value, but if you don't know completely what God is saying how do you claim to understand it?

[Glory To God]

5 minutes ago, theElect777 said:

How would he understand what death is if he has never seen it or experienced it?   We take the Word of God for face value, but if you don't know completely what God is saying how do you claim to understand it?

 

So was God wrong in his judgment to punish Adam the way he did? 

[Fidei Defensor]

8 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

Oh?

Genesis 3: 

“1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God actually say, 'You shall not eat of any tree in the garden'?" 
2 And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden,
3 but God said, 'You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'"
4 But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die.
5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.
7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.
8 And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.
9 But the LORD God called to the man and said to him, "Where are you?"
10 And he said, "I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself."
11 He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?"
12 The man said, "The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate."
13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this that you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."
14 The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life. 
15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel." 
16 To the woman he said, "I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be contrary to your husband, but he shall rule over you." 
17 And to Adam he said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, 'You shall not eat of it,' cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life; 
18 thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you; and you shall eat the plants of the field. 
19 By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return." 
20 The man called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.
21 And the LORD God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them.
22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever-"
23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken.
24 He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life. - (Genesis 3:1-24)

Romans 5: 

“8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned-
13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.
16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.
17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.
19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.
20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”  (Romans 5:8-21)

[Glory To God]

17 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

If it's true it's true. I'll say it again: I don't think you will find it helpful to blame Adam or Eve for your mistakes.

 

But it's not true it is only your opinion, hence why you keep saying "I think..." and these ideas of yours are not substantiated with scripture. 

 

 

[johnthebaptist]

54 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Genesis 3: 

“1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God actually say, 'You shall not eat of any tree in the garden'?" 
2 And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden,
3 but God said, 'You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'"
4 But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die.
5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.
7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.
8 And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.
9 But the LORD God called to the man and said to him, "Where are you?"
10 And he said, "I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself."
11 He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?"
12 The man said, "The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate."
13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this that you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."
14 The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life. 
15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel." 
16 To the woman he said, "I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be contrary to your husband, but he shall rule over you." 
17 And to Adam he said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, 'You shall not eat of it,' cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life; 
18 thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you; and you shall eat the plants of the field. 
19 By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return." 
20 The man called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.
21 And the LORD God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them.
22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever-"
23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken.
24 He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life. - (Genesis 3:1-24)

Romans 5: 

“8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned-
13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.
16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.
17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.
19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.
20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”  (Romans 5:8-21)

It is common knowledge Adam and Eve sinned. Where does the Bible say we can blame them for our own sin?

[johnthebaptist]

51 minutes ago, Glory To God said:

 

But it's not true it is only your opinion, hence why you keep saying "I think..." and these ideas of yours are not substantiated with scripture. 

 

 

Some things are self-evident. The Bible doesn't tell you not to put your hand on a hot stove, but I don't THINK you should.

[Fidei Defensor]

40 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

It is common knowledge Adam and Eve sinned. Where does the Bible say we can blame them for our own sin?

We can hold them acxountable for Original Sin and the sinful flesh they imparted to us. Our personal sinful choices are our own to be held accountable for; however, our susceptibility to sin comes from them, we are their progeny; their D.N.A. flows through all humans.  

We are accountable for the sin, if we lie being an example

but the propensity to lie comes from Original Sin in us because of Adam and Eve’s Fall.  

[johnthebaptist]

32 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

We can hold them acxountable for Original Sin and the sinful flesh they imparted to us. Our personal sinful choices are our own to be held accountable for; however, our susceptibility to sin comes from them, we are their progeny; their D.N.A. flows through all humans.  

We are accountable for the sin, if we lie being an example

but the propensity to lie comes from Original Sin in us because of Adam and Eve’s Fall.  

Somebody had to sin first, and the first people to walk the earth would have held that honor, since we've all sinned. It is interesting but I don't see it's import.