Let's Discuss Scientific Objections to Evolution

[Marathoner]

Here's a nugget for everyone to chew on: "survival of the fittest" is a phrase coined by Herbert Spencer, an economic theorist. I caution the reader to keep the following in mind: this does not necessarily mean the strongest, the fastest, the biggest, and so on. Not at all. Things are not always as they seem on the surface. 

[HAZARD]

What I always thought of was this. Where in Scripture does it say, "6'000 years ago God created the Heavens and the Earth?" No where that I know.. It does teach , "In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth."

When was In the beginning??

Who knows when or what period of time, "IN THE BEGINNING" was?

 

In Genesis it says, Genesis 1;1, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

 

It does not say, 6'000 years ago God created the heaven and the earth.

 

John 1;1 also states, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

 

It does not say, Six thousand years ago was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, six thousand years ago?

 

The next two verses also do not mention any time period or time when things were created.

 

John 1: 2, The same was in the beginning with God.
   

John 1; 3, All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made.

 

God and the Word, before he became flesh and dwelt among us are ETERNAL beings. Sure as God the Word had no beginning but as a Man, He had a beginning.

 

John 1;14; "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

 

It is interesting to note that astronomers have discovered planets about 150,000,000 light years from the Earth. This is about 14,690,062,800,000,000,000 miles from the Earth, or a distance light can travel in 150,000,000 years at a speed of 186,000 miles per second. Astronomers also say there are other universes even beyond this one. They say about 6,000,000,000 stars have been discovered and they are all suns to other planets. If this is true then the universe is beyond human conception.

 

It is hard to conceive that God has existed from all eternity past as a lazy being, not doing anything until a few millennium ago, when He finally decided to do something.

 

It is easier to conceive that God has been making things in all the eternal past. Jesus Himself said;

 

 John 5:17, "But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work."

And they will continue to work through eternity future, and we will be included in their work!

 

I ask you, is the universe, many parts of it that are not in rebellion, in sin against God inhabited,? I believe so because of this simple Scripture;

 

Revelation 12:12, "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them . . . . . . Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." yes, his time will shortly and positively and securely cut off!

 

The Bible says the heavens cannot be measured and the host of Heaven cannot be counted (Jer. 31:37 ; 33:22-25). It is also clear that the spirit world of angels, seraphims, cherubims, and other spirit beings were created before the Earth, for the "sons of God," (angels), were present and shouting when God laid the foundations of the Earth. It is also clear from this passage that God created the heavens, including the moon, the sun and stars were created before the Earth, for "the morning stars" sang together when God laid the foundations of the Earth. This would be the logical order of creation, to make the place before creating the inhabitants to live in or on the place.

Since inhabitants were a part of the creation and not part of Creators (Col. 1:15-18), they naturally would have to be created on which they were to live. This is the way it happened on Earth in the six days of the restoration of the Earth from chaos to a second habitable state (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

 

Bearing all this in mind, we either believe our God can and did create everything which included the molecules of the universe, from the basic atomic particles to the subatomic particles, and even particles we know nothing about yet in His creation we see and live in today!

 

In a nutshell and put simply;

“In the beginning" [literally by periods or ages] God created the heaven, [Hebrew, heavens] and the earth, not 6000years ago God created the Heaven and the earth.

When we speak of the six days and the creation of the present life on Earth, we can speak with Bible authority that it was about 6000 years ago. This can be seen by the lengths of the various dispensations since Adam. In no Scripture are we taught to believe that the heavens and the Earth were originally created during the six days and at the time of Adam about 6000 years ago.
Some use Exodus 20:8-11; 31:17 to try and prove that the heavens and the Earth were created in the six days of Gen. 1:3-2:25, and therefore, that they were created about 6000 years ago. However, nothing is said of the original creation of the heavens and the Earth in these passages.

In these Scriptures the Hebrew word 'ASAH,' meaning to make out of already existing material, is used instead of the word 'BARA,' to create. These verses picture the re-creation work of the six days and not the original creation "In the beginning."

 

'ASAH' never means to create. It is translated 'MADE,' 659 times; 'MAKE,' 449 times; 'MAKETH,' 59 times and 'MAKEST,' sixteen times; 'MAKER,' thirteen times; 'MAKING,' eleven times; and 'MADEST,' three times.

When God said, "In six days, the Lord 'MADE' heaven and Earth," he had in mind the restoration of the heaven (firmament, or clouds) the Earth to a habitable state as it was before the destruction of Lucifer’s kingdom by the flood and Gen. 1:2.

 

Molecular science does not disprove the creations of God. All things were created after Lucifer’s rebellion, "After their own kind."

 

Every Instance: after their kind,   AV (Gen-Rev),

Gen 1:21, And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:25, And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 6:20, Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.
Gen 7:14, They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

So, if they were created after their own kind, it was after the kind that was created before!

[Guest theElect777]

6 hours ago, HAZARD said:

There was two great floods on the earth, one Lucifer's flood when God destroyed the earth and covered it with water after lucifer and one third of God's angels rebelled. The waters were taken off the earth at a different rate in each flood as scriptures clearly teach. Noahs flood (N. F. and Lucifers flood L. F.)

 

L.F. No continued abating of the waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Continued abating of the waters from the earth by evaporation (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. Waters taken off the earth in one day (Gen. 1:10).
N.F. Months of waters abating off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. God supernaturally takes waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Natural work of evaporation of the waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

Amen!

 

Most do not understand this "truth" so they only assume from Noah's Flood.

[Guest theElect777]

7 hours ago, one.opinion said:

No, I’m suggesting that if there were a flood With sufficient force to carve such a structure through solid rock, it would have cut a much straighter channel, rather than going through many meandering curves.

I’m not real sure what this has to do with biological evolution, though. Could we bring the discussions back on topic?

Then lead and see where this ends up at.

[one.opinion]

9 minutes ago, theElect777 said:

Then lead and see where this ends up at.

As the OP states, I'd like to use this thread to address scientific objections to evolution. Several people opined in various threads recently that there were many biological problems with the theory of evolution and I've offered to address them (to the best of my ability) here. What biological objections do you have?

[David1701]

7 hours ago, HAZARD said:

What I always thought of was this. Where in Scripture does it say, "6'000 years ago God created the Heavens and the Earth?" No where that I know.. It does teach , "In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth."

When was In the beginning??

Who knows when or what period of time, "IN THE BEGINNING" was?

 

In Genesis it says, Genesis 1;1, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

 

It does not say, 6'000 years ago God created the heaven and the earth.

 

John 1;1 also states, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

 

It does not say, Six thousand years ago was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, six thousand years ago?

 

The next two verses also do not mention any time period or time when things were created.

 

John 1: 2, The same was in the beginning with God.
   

John 1; 3, All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made.

 

God and the Word, before he became flesh and dwelt among us are ETERNAL beings. Sure as God the Word had no beginning but as a Man, He had a beginning.

 

John 1;14; "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

 

It is interesting to note that astronomers have discovered planets about 150,000,000 light years from the Earth. This is about 14,690,062,800,000,000,000 miles from the Earth, or a distance light can travel in 150,000,000 years at a speed of 186,000 miles per second. Astronomers also say there are other universes even beyond this one. They say about 6,000,000,000 stars have been discovered and they are all suns to other planets. If this is true then the universe is beyond human conception.

 

It is hard to conceive that God has existed from all eternity past as a lazy being, not doing anything until a few millennium ago, when He finally decided to do something.

 

It is easier to conceive that God has been making things in all the eternal past. Jesus Himself said;

 

 John 5:17, "But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work."

And they will continue to work through eternity future, and we will be included in their work!

 

I ask you, is the universe, many parts of it that are not in rebellion, in sin against God inhabited,? I believe so because of this simple Scripture;

 

Revelation 12:12, "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them . . . . . . Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." yes, his time will shortly and positively and securely cut off!

 

The Bible says the heavens cannot be measured and the host of Heaven cannot be counted (Jer. 31:37 ; 33:22-25). It is also clear that the spirit world of angels, seraphims, cherubims, and other spirit beings were created before the Earth, for the "sons of God," (angels), were present and shouting when God laid the foundations of the Earth. It is also clear from this passage that God created the heavens, including the moon, the sun and stars were created before the Earth, for "the morning stars" sang together when God laid the foundations of the Earth. This would be the logical order of creation, to make the place before creating the inhabitants to live in or on the place.

Since inhabitants were a part of the creation and not part of Creators (Col. 1:15-18), they naturally would have to be created on which they were to live. This is the way it happened on Earth in the six days of the restoration of the Earth from chaos to a second habitable state (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

 

Bearing all this in mind, we either believe our God can and did create everything which included the molecules of the universe, from the basic atomic particles to the subatomic particles, and even particles we know nothing about yet in His creation we see and live in today!

 

In a nutshell and put simply;

“In the beginning" [literally by periods or ages] God created the heaven, [Hebrew, heavens] and the earth, not 6000years ago God created the Heaven and the earth.

When we speak of the six days and the creation of the present life on Earth, we can speak with Bible authority that it was about 6000 years ago. This can be seen by the lengths of the various dispensations since Adam. In no Scripture are we taught to believe that the heavens and the Earth were originally created during the six days and at the time of Adam about 6000 years ago.
Some use Exodus 20:8-11; 31:17 to try and prove that the heavens and the Earth were created in the six days of Gen. 1:3-2:25, and therefore, that they were created about 6000 years ago. However, nothing is said of the original creation of the heavens and the Earth in these passages.

In these Scriptures the Hebrew word 'ASAH,' meaning to make out of already existing material, is used instead of the word 'BARA,' to create. These verses picture the re-creation work of the six days and not the original creation "In the beginning."

 

'ASAH' never means to create. It is translated 'MADE,' 659 times; 'MAKE,' 449 times; 'MAKETH,' 59 times and 'MAKEST,' sixteen times; 'MAKER,' thirteen times; 'MAKING,' eleven times; and 'MADEST,' three times.

When God said, "In six days, the Lord 'MADE' heaven and Earth," he had in mind the restoration of the heaven (firmament, or clouds) the Earth to a habitable state as it was before the destruction of Lucifer’s kingdom by the flood and Gen. 1:2.

 

Molecular science does not disprove the creations of God. All things were created after Lucifer’s rebellion, "After their own kind."

 

Every Instance: after their kind,   AV (Gen-Rev),

Gen 1:21, And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:25, And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 6:20, Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.
Gen 7:14, They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

So, if they were created after their own kind, it was after the kind that was created before!

I strongly recommend you to read some high quality Creationist material, so that you know what you're talking about.  Creation.com or answersingenesis.org would be good places to start.

An example of misunderstanding is your comments about "after his kind", which is antiquated English for "according to its kind" and nothing to do with being subsequent to a supposed previous kind.

[Marathoner]

4 hours ago, one.opinion said:

As the OP states, I'd like to use this thread to address scientific objections to evolution. Several people opined in various threads recently that there were many biological problems with the theory of evolution and I've offered to address them (to the best of my ability) here. What biological objections do you have?

I'm familiar with some objections but I'm not about to adopt an oppositional stance for the sake of discussion; that would be disingenuous. Some of the points raised thus far are interesting but they don't address the issue at hand.

[Guest theElect777]

4 hours ago, one.opinion said:

As the OP states, I'd like to use this thread to address scientific objections to evolution. Several people opined in various threads recently that there were many biological problems with the theory of evolution and I've offered to address them (to the best of my ability) here. What biological objections do you have?

If we go the route of Biological Evolution then we are discussing man first being a primate before completely evolving into our current state.   Do you believe we were chimps at one point in time, and since Science believes we are nowhere complete in our evolution, where does that take us?   And how does being a chimp to hominid to something more advance than our current state relate to Biblical resource?

Edited July 29, 2020 by theElect777

[Guest theElect777]

We are talking a series of inherited genetics.   But what are the missing links that must evolve for us to reach the next phase?

[Marathoner]

18 hours ago, theElect777 said:

I recommend you look at the valley that Mount Saint Helens dug out just 30 years ago and it would appear as if it was a billions years old.   Look at the Grand Canyon and you can see where the water from Noah's Flood carved it out and it still is being dated GEOLOGICALLY at BILLIONS year old.

I didn't reply to this comment earlier because it veers off topic, @theElect777. The Grand Canyon and Noah's Flood have nothing to do with scientific objections to evolution. Do you have any scientific objections to the process of biological evolution? If so, what are they?