JERUSALEM IS FALLING

[douggg]

14 minutes ago, abcdef said:

Douggg,

Here is something else that you may want to think about, as far as the EU is concerned,

See that the statue in Dan 2 shows just the opposite of the EU/10 nation theory.

The statue is strongest at the lower hips, the thickest, largest part of the Roman iron domination.

After that, the iron gets smaller, divides in the 3rd century, is mixed with clay in the feet, divided into 10 toes, which are also mixed with clay, and then come to an end when Jerusalem is restored.

The statue does not show the toes coming together again, but instead growing smaller being mixed with clay and ending.

So the idea that the EU is some how the toes having great power, ruling the planet, like the powerful lower hips, is just the opposite of what the statue shows.

The statue shows the Roman power over Israel growing weaker through the ages and ending.

Normally when the bible want to makes a point by highlighting some physical attribute it states so in the text.

[Biblican]

On 1/20/2021 at 11:48 AM, Josheb said:

Fail. 

The apostle John was the only NT writer to use the term "antichrist" and he said there are many antichrists and many of them had appeared during the era in which he wrote, 

1 John 2:18-24
"Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.  They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.  But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know.  I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth.  Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.  Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.  As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father."

The word "now" means now, or "at the resent time or moment." Even at the present moment many antichrists have appeared. The term is used five times in four sections of his epistles and John himself defines the term. An antichrist is anyone who denies the Father and the Son, Jesus Christ (1 Jn. 2:22), and/or those claiming Jesus has not come from God (1 Jn. 4:3), and/or who do not acknowledge his having come in the flesh (2 Jn. 1:7).  This is not rocket science. The antichrist is not some secret super-agent orange with fantastical abilities. S/he is simply someone, anyone who denies Jesus. S/he is anti Christ.

Furthermore, John explicitly states he and his readers were living in the "last time" (KJV) or the "last hour" (NAS) and the spirit of the antichrist was already at work in the time when John wrote his epistles, which was the last time/hour. The spirit of the antichrist was at work in the last hour, even as many antichrists had occurred at that present time. 

That does not mean that there will not be a final antichrist that is revealed before Jesus' returns. When you are interpreting scripture you have to take into consideration everything. The antichrist of Daniel 11, is seen operating just before the judgment in Daniel 12. He is described as having control over the gold and silver and is in alliance with Iran. Whenever a doctrine is interpreted through the lens of preterism  it's going to fail.

[Biblican]

On 1/21/2021 at 1:51 PM, Josheb said:

No butit does mean all those things you just posted are being read into the text. 

You didn't even know that text was even there. Most legitimate Bible scholars understand the historical background of those passages and their application to the prophecies in Revelation. I am not alone.

[abcdef]

On 1/20/2021 at 10:45 PM, douggg said:

Normally when the bible want to makes a point by highlighting some physical attribute it states so in the text.

Well, just think about it.

[abcdef]

On 1/20/2021 at 10:23 PM, douggg said:

While the little horn and the Antichrist are the same person.   The false prophet is a separate person.

Jesus is our high priest, prophet, and God.

Caesar is the Antichrist high priest, prophet, and god.

The beast iron Roman nation is shown in different ways.

In Rev 13, It is shown as two beasts, a gentile nation sea beast, and a religious earth beast. They are both one beast, the Roman Empire of John's time. See how the text describes the changes that the iron beast nation goes through as time passes.

Remember, when this was written it was death or worse to say or write anything against Caesar or Rome. So they had to write in the code of the OT scriptures.

Caesar has been with us to this day. He has changed form into the "image" of Caesar and the Roman Empire, but the RCC is still the iron legs of Rome.

Being the "image" of the Roman Empire Caesar, he has lost the military power he once had. 

Now, he is still the leader of a billion people spiritual image Roman Empire, but being only the religious image and is referred to as the false prophet.

(Rev 16:10-16, is happening now. The Roman false prophet has ALREADY deceived the kings of the east (Iran) into attacking restored Jerusalem)

 ---------

Sorry, but I must post separate answers for your post because of time..  

 

[abcdef]

On 1/20/2021 at 10:23 PM, douggg said:

Those two persons little horn/Antichrist/beast and the false prophet will be cast alive into the lake of fire at Jesus's return.

 

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

This does not show the return of Jesus.

It shows the victory of the gospel (sword) over the Roman Empire in the 3rd/4th centuries, when Christianity became the official religion of the Empire.

====================

Rev 19:11-21,

Vs. 11-16, This does not show Jesus returning to planet earth.

It says only that heaven is opened v 11, and that Jesus is seen in heaven with the OT saints from the first resurrection when Jesus rose. It does not say that He is shown returning to planet earth.

---

Rev 19:17-18, The declaration of the angel.

The war that Jesus wages is a spiritual war (sword) for the souls of people. What happens when a soul is pierced through the heart with the gospel sword?

Rom 6:6-7, "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. (v 7) For he that is dead is freed from sin." 

In this spiritual war, the souls converted to Jesus are "devouring" the power of the Roman beast, the iron of the statue.

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Rev 19:19, The people of the world fight against the gospel, led by the Roman Empire beast nation. It is a spiritual battle for the soul.

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Rev 19:20, The Roman Empire falls to Christianity.

These entities, the Roman beast nation, the false prophet, and their supporters, are all cast into the lake of fire, but that is not the end of the "line of Caesars and the false prophets". This is showing the one of the changes that the Roman Empire beast makes over time.

When these souls were cast into the fire, it was because they were judged already John 3:18.

The line of Caesars and the Roman beast nation continues after this, it is not their end. 

---

Rev 19:21, There is a remnant.

This remnant shows that the Roman beast nation iron continues past the point where the Roman Empire is converted to Christianity. 

The weapon is the gospel sword.

-----

This was all future to John in 96 AD.

It is distant past to us.

[abcdef]

On 1/21/2021 at 10:01 AM, Josheb said:

Because I assume you know your Bible

I know what has been shown to me.

Show me your supporting scriptures, that say the people of Israel will not be restored to Jerusalem, so that I may learn from you.

 

On 1/21/2021 at 10:01 AM, Josheb said:

and what it is that defines "Israel," if if and when "Israel" is defined solely by the OT. 

"Israel" is the descendants of Jacob.

The land of Israel is named after them.

The prophecies include references to Jerusalem.

The prophecies of the Rev and others show the people of Israel restored to Jerusalem.

 

On 1/21/2021 at 10:01 AM, Josheb said:

Does modern Israel possess the land God gave OT Israel?

It's not about the land mass, it's about Jerusalem and the people of Israel.

In order for the times of the gentiles to end Lk 21:20-24, 24, the only requirement is that the people of Israel regain military control over the city, that happened in 1967.

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The times of the gentiles is the same time as the statue in Dan 2.

The first part of the statue is from Babylon until 70 AD. (3 1/2 times) 

The Rev is focused on the 2nd part of the statue, from 70 AD until 1967 (3 1/2 times), and after.

 

[abcdef]

On 1/21/2021 at 10:20 AM, Josheb said:

Hmmm... 

Daniel 7:25
"He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time."

I don't see any mention of Rome in that verse. I don't read the words "Rome," or "Roman," anywhere in that entire chapter. I'm inclined to agree, but the post does not provide substance for that interpretation or conclusion. 

Since Daniel lived 500 years before the Dan 7:25 prophecy came true, it was not revealed at that time who the 4th beast nation was.

It was not revealed that the 4th beast iron nation was Rome until the 67-70 AD destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.

Edited January 23, 2021 by abcdef

[abcdef]

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

Since the mystery to which Paul is referring is Christ incarnate, crucified and resurrected the answer should be obvious to all: the first century.

Rom 11:25.

No, it says exactly what the mystery is, "... ; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in."

It's not talking about the death and resurrection of Jesus as the Son of God. That mystery is stated to be already revealed by Paul later in Rom 16:25-26, also 1 Cor 2:1-10.

The mystery is, that the people of Israel are blind to the Pentecost kingdom gospel of the new covenant, and how long will it be before they return to Jesus, the God of Mt Sinai, the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, the God of David, Samuel, Adam, and Noah, He is the Creator.

The children of Jacob, loved by Jesus, how long will they be blind?

---

Are there no children of Jacob left? Are they completely gone?

As long as there are children of Jacob left, the promise to see God again is valid.

 

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

Paul explicitly states his readers should not be ignorant of the mystery. Had you not just proof-texted the one single verse it would be seen Paul's words are couched in the prophet Isaiah and again explicitly couched in the Deliverer from Zion. 

When did the Deliverer come? 

The first century!!!!! 

Yes the deliverer came in 30-33 AD ish.

But the unbelieving natural branches were shown by Paul to be broken off when he wrote Romans. So the period for Israel to be "unblinded" would be sometime after Paul's writing.

But this did not happen, because after Paul wrote, Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed.

 

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

So nice Uber-Fail. Scripture and reason are your friend and if you question your sources as much as you question my posts you will find they are seriously flawed. All I ask of you is to be an equal-opportunity critic. 

Don't look at me as a critic, brother, just think of me as someone who is making you think about things, expanding knowledge, asking you to question what is not usually questioned, maybe see a little different perspective.

[abcdef]

On 1/21/2021 at 12:31 PM, Biblican said:

That does not mean that there will not be a final antichrist that is revealed before Jesus' returns.

The Antichrist was revealed already as Caesar at the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem.

The iron beast nation was revealed as Rome.

 

On 1/21/2021 at 12:31 PM, Biblican said:

When you are interpreting scripture you have to take into consideration everything.

Especially the age in which they were written.

All the NT letters were written before the 70 AD destruction, except Revelation.

At the time of the writings, the revealing of the Roman Antichrist and the destruction of the temple were only about 10- 25 years away. Not 1900 years away.

 

On 1/21/2021 at 12:31 PM, Biblican said:

The antichrist of Daniel 11,

The Greek Antiochus. He holds the title of Antichrist for a while before Caesar.

 

On 1/21/2021 at 12:31 PM, Biblican said:

is seen operating just before the judgment in Daniel 12.

The first resurrection judgement, when Jesus was resurrected with the OT saints.

Every thing in the last vision of Daniel was completed by 70 AD.

On 1/21/2021 at 12:31 PM, Biblican said:

He is described as having control over the gold and silver and is in alliance with Iran.

 

On 1/21/2021 at 12:31 PM, Biblican said:

Whenever a doctrine is interpreted through the lens of preterism  it's going to fail.

Both the time lines of preterism and pretrib need adjustments. 

Both skip the time from 70 AD until this day.

There is no gap.