JERUSALEM IS FALLING

[iamlamad]

On 3/6/2021 at 11:24 AM, abcdef said:

So then, lets try to continue thinking about the 6th vial. If you will continue.

How long is the time span between the pouring out of the 6th vial, and the battle of Armageddon?

There needs to be time enough for the beast to deceive the kings of the east who are across the Euphrates, time for the armies to assemble, time for the war of Armageddon to begin and continue, and then for the actual battle to take place. 

Many see this as taking place within a time span of a few months.

Could it be that the actual time span is over 20 years? 40 years?

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What comes after the 6th vial? the 7th vial?

The city that is destroyed is Jerusalem, but why Jerusalem?

You say in your book that it is Babylon, not Jerusalem.

But it says that Babylon came to remembrance, Rev 16:9, not that it is Babylon. If the city was Babylon, then Babylon would not have to be remembered, because it would be that actual city of Babylon.

But since the city is Jerusalem, it is compared to Babylon.

But this brings about an interesting question, 

If Israel wins the battle of Armageddon, why does God destroy Jerusalem? 

Because Israel doesn't win the war, the people of Israel are killed and Jerusalem falls to the kings of the east and their allies.

Understand, that the 7th vial is showing the end of this planet.

I agree that John is talking about the city of Jerusalem: the man of sin turned Beast will make his home in Jerusalem for most of the last 3.5 years of the 70th week. 

Does Revelation end at the 7th vial? What about chapter 20? What about the thrones John saw with people on them judging? No, the 7th vial does not end what God has planned. Jesus will rule the planet as KING JESUS for a thousand years after the 7th vial.

You are right, Israel does not win. They come within "a hair's breadth" of being destroyed, but JESUS COMES and rescues them.

[Biblican]

On 3/6/2021 at 8:50 AM, Alive said:

I won't argue eschatology, but you may want to study up some more. You may find that your statement here can be revised--regarding what the apostles taught and what the early church taught and believed.

Before Jerusalem Fell--by Ken Gentry contains some very well reasoned material loaded with historical citing and more. It won't be conclusive, necessarily, but will provide food for thought and further study for an open mind.

I'm not reading anything but my Bible right now. I am very aware of what the early church taught and believed.

[Biblican]

On 3/6/2021 at 12:24 PM, abcdef said:

So then, lets try to continue thinking about the 6th vial. If you will continue.

How long is the time span between the pouring out of the 6th vial, and the battle of Armageddon?

There needs to be time enough for the beast to deceive the kings of the east who are across the Euphrates, time for the armies to assemble, time for the war of Armageddon to begin and continue, and then for the actual battle to take place. 

Many see this as taking place within a time span of a few months.

Could it be that the actual time span is over 20 years? 40 years?

------

What comes after the 6th vial? the 7th vial?

The city that is destroyed is Jerusalem, but why Jerusalem?

You say in your book that it is Babylon, not Jerusalem.

But it says that Babylon came to remembrance, Rev 16:9, not that it is Babylon. If the city was Babylon, then Babylon would not have to be remembered, because it would be that actual city of Babylon.

But since the city is Jerusalem, it is compared to Babylon.

But this brings about an interesting question, 

If Israel wins the battle of Armageddon, why does God destroy Jerusalem? 

Because Israel doesn't win the war, the people of Israel are killed and Jerusalem falls to the kings of the east and their allies.

Understand, that the 7th vial is showing the end of this planet.

Babylon is the world system of which Jerusalem and the apostate church are a part. It also has a literal representative city that will be literally destroyed. God calls His people out of her and that is the pre-wrath rapture. Jerusalem goes into captivity before that, but is not completely destroyed. Babylon is destroyed just before the Lord returns and He delivers Jerusalem, see Zechariah 14.

[abcdef]

On 3/9/2021 at 12:47 PM, iamlamad said:

Now for reality: 

No part of the 70th week (the trumpet judgments and then the vial judgments) has happened. The entire week is FUTURE. 

No, the entire week of Dan 9:27 is past. 

The week began when Jesus began His ministry in 30 AD.

It ended when Israel rejected the confirmed covenant Pentecost kingdom in 37 AD. Then the gentiles were allowed into the kingdom.

 

On 3/9/2021 at 12:47 PM, iamlamad said:

Before the 70th week can begin (with the opening of the book sealed with 7 seals) all seven seals must first be opened.

All seven seals were opened by Jesus in front of John, in 96 ADish when the revelation was written down and sent to the congregations.

After the writing of the Revelation the seals of the scroll were then open for everyone to see what the scroll said.

What the scroll says is the story of the 2 witnesses. It is the story of the people of Israel from 70 AD until 1967, and then to the last/7th trumpet rapt/resur.

 

On 3/9/2021 at 12:47 PM, iamlamad said:

The 7th seal cannot be opened to begin the trumpet judgments and God's wrath poured out until first the 6th seal is opened.

The 6th seal shows the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem.

It is the day of the Lord against Jerusalem as shown by Peter in Acts 2:16-21. Only 35 years away from when Peter spoke.

 

On 3/9/2021 at 12:47 PM, iamlamad said:

The 6th seal is the announcement of the imminent start of judgment: the trumpet judgments. 

The 4 horsemen were the beginning of the judgments against the people of Israel, the unbelieving broken branches of Israel.

They begin in 37 AD when Israel rejected the Pentecost gospel kingdom. They end when Jerusalem is destroyed in 70 AD and the people of Israel are scattered into the gentile nations.

The trumpets are the judgments against the broken branches as long as they continue to reject Jesus and the Pentecost kingdom.

 

On 3/9/2021 at 12:47 PM, iamlamad said:

The church is still waiting on that final church age martyr of the 5th seal.

The saints at the 5th seal are OT saints and not NT saints.

They are OT saints who were resurrected with Jesus at the first resurrection when Jesus was resurrected.

They are not members of the Pentecost kingdom.

 

On 3/9/2021 at 12:47 PM, iamlamad said:

That final martyr will not come until the rapture comes to end the church age.

The end of the church/Pentecost kingdom age is followed by the fire from heaven in Rev 20. 

That is where we are, just before the 2nd resurrection and the fire from heaven.

 

On 3/9/2021 at 12:47 PM, iamlamad said:

Folks, this is reality. I really don't know what the post above is.

I know that you don't see it coming yet. But it is here, maybe a few years, 2? 20? 10? 1? 5? When ever Jerusalem falls, 3 1/2 days later, Jesus comes for the kingdom.

[abcdef]

On 3/9/2021 at 12:52 PM, iamlamad said:

I agree that John is talking about the city of Jerusalem:

Yes

 

On 3/9/2021 at 12:52 PM, iamlamad said:

the man of sin turned Beast will make his home in Jerusalem for most of the last 3.5 years of the 70th week.

The seat of the beast is Rome.

The home and seat of the woman is Jerusalem.

The Roman beast deceives the kings from across the Euphrates to attack restored Jerusalem, but he is not shown leaving his "seat" in Rome to do it, or is he shown being there. Only that he makes war against Jerusalem and Israel.

 

On 3/9/2021 at 12:52 PM, iamlamad said:

Does Revelation end at the 7th vial?

No, but the time line ends at the 7th vial when Jerusalem and this planet are destroyed.

After the 7th vial there is only the judgment and eternity.

The time line breaks between the vials of Rev 16 and 17, and the woman of Rev 17. 

 

On 3/9/2021 at 12:52 PM, iamlamad said:

What about chapter 20?

Rev 20 time line begins with the first resurrection of Jesus in 33 AD.

It ends with the coming, 2nd resurrection for salvation.

2 resurrections, that's it, no more, no less, 2. 1 Cor 15:23-24.

The 1st resurrection is Jesus, always has been, always will be. 

The 2nd resurrection is when He comes for the kingdom.

There are no more resurrections after that.

 

On 3/9/2021 at 12:52 PM, iamlamad said:

What about the thrones John saw with people on them judging?

The thrones in Rev 20 are saints from the OT who resurrected when Jesus did.

John the Baptist was beheaded and was resurrected with Jesus. 

They rule with Jesus from heaven during the Pentecost kingdom/church age.

 

On 3/9/2021 at 12:52 PM, iamlamad said:

No, the 7th vial does not end what God has planned.

It does for this planet.

 

On 3/9/2021 at 12:52 PM, iamlamad said:

Jesus will rule the planet as KING JESUS for a thousand years after the 7th vial.

Sorry, but the Revelation is not one continual time line.

You are in the mill period right now.

 

On 3/9/2021 at 12:52 PM, iamlamad said:

You are right, Israel does not win. They come within "a hair's breadth" of being destroyed, but JESUS COMES and rescues them.

Sorry again, but Jerusalem and the people of Israel are ..... ended on this planet, that is the bitterness of the scroll.

If the planet were allowed to continue after Jerusalem falls this time,

The people of Israel would be absorbed into the gentile nations and cease to be a unique genetic race.

That is why the planet is destroyed by fire, because the people of Israel are destroyed. 

The people of Israel, the salt of the earth.

[abcdef]

On 3/10/2021 at 11:13 AM, Biblican said:

Babylon is the world system of which Jerusalem and the apostate church are a part.

In a general sense yes.

Apostate Israel, the church/kingdom is Israel.

The church/kingdom often is looked at as separate from Israel by gentiles.

This is a result of the RCC teaching that God has rejected the people of Israel forever and replaced them with Rome.

Try this, instead of saying "church", try always saying the kingdom of Israel instead.

 

On 3/10/2021 at 11:13 AM, Biblican said:

It also has a literal representative city that will be literally destroyed.

The literal city has already been destroyed, it's ruins can be seen.

 

On 3/10/2021 at 11:13 AM, Biblican said:

God calls His people out of her and that is the pre-wrath rapture.

After the resur/rapt, there is nothing except the fire from heaven, judgment, and eternity.

The idea that there will be a second chance after that will deceive many into waiting until it is too late.

 

On 3/10/2021 at 11:13 AM, Biblican said:

Jerusalem goes into captivity before that, but is not completely destroyed. Babylon is destroyed just before the Lord returns and He delivers Jerusalem, see Zechariah 14.

Zech 14 is about the 70 AD destruction. The understanding of the living waters that flow from Jerusalem, shows the Holy Spirit beginning on Pentecost v 8 and then flowing to the seas of the gentile nations.

It is past, not future.

 

[Biblican]

23 hours ago, abcdef said:

In a general sense yes.

Apostate Israel, the church/kingdom is Israel.

The church/kingdom often is looked at as separate from Israel by gentiles.

This is a result of the RCC teaching that God has rejected the people of Israel forever and replaced them with Rome.

Try this, instead of saying "church", try always saying the kingdom of Israel instead.

 

The literal city has already been destroyed, it's ruins can be seen.

 

After the resur/rapt, there is nothing except the fire from heaven, judgment, and eternity.

The idea that there will be a second chance after that will deceive many into waiting until it is too late.

 

Zech 14 is about the 70 AD destruction. The understanding of the living waters that flow from Jerusalem, shows the Holy Spirit beginning on Pentecost v 8 and then flowing to the seas of the gentile nations.

It is past, not future.

 

Sorry, we will have to agree to disagree. The preterist interpretation is not supported by scripture, or current events.

[iamlamad]

On 3/11/2021 at 11:44 AM, abcdef said:

Yes

 

The seat of the beast is Rome.

The home and seat of the woman is Jerusalem.

The Roman beast deceives the kings from across the Euphrates to attack restored Jerusalem, but he is not shown leaving his "seat" in Rome to do it, or is he shown being there. Only that he makes war against Jerusalem and Israel.

 

No, but the time line ends at the 7th vial when Jerusalem and this planet are destroyed.

After the 7th vial there is only the judgment and eternity.

The time line breaks between the vials of Rev 16 and 17, and the woman of Rev 17. 

 

Rev 20 time line begins with the first resurrection of Jesus in 33 AD.

It ends with the coming, 2nd resurrection for salvation.

2 resurrections, that's it, no more, no less, 2. 1 Cor 15:23-24.

The 1st resurrection is Jesus, always has been, always will be. 

The 2nd resurrection is when He comes for the kingdom.

There are no more resurrections after that.

 

The thrones in Rev 20 are saints from the OT who resurrected when Jesus did.

John the Baptist was beheaded and was resurrected with Jesus. 

They rule with Jesus from heaven during the Pentecost kingdom/church age.

 

It does for this planet.

 

Sorry, but the Revelation is not one continual time line.

You are in the mill period right now.

 

Sorry again, but Jerusalem and the people of Israel are ..... ended on this planet, that is the bitterness of the scroll.

If the planet were allowed to continue after Jerusalem falls this time,

The people of Israel would be absorbed into the gentile nations and cease to be a unique genetic race.

That is why the planet is destroyed by fire, because the people of Israel are destroyed. 

The people of Israel, the salt of the earth.

I disagree with most of what you wrote here. I think Revelation disagrees also.

For example, WHERE is the Beast when He is captured? In Rome? Not a chance! It is in Israel!

[iamlamad]

On 3/11/2021 at 11:12 AM, abcdef said:

No, the entire week of Dan 9:27 is past. 

The week began when Jesus began His ministry in 30 AD.

It ended when Israel rejected the confirmed covenant Pentecost kingdom in 37 AD. Then the gentiles were allowed into the kingdom.

 

All seven seals were opened by Jesus in front of John, in 96 ADish when the revelation was written down and sent to the congregations.

After the writing of the Revelation the seals of the scroll were then open for everyone to see what the scroll said.

What the scroll says is the story of the 2 witnesses. It is the story of the people of Israel from 70 AD until 1967, and then to the last/7th trumpet rapt/resur.

 

The 6th seal shows the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem.

It is the day of the Lord against Jerusalem as shown by Peter in Acts 2:16-21. Only 35 years away from when Peter spoke.

 

The 4 horsemen were the beginning of the judgments against the people of Israel, the unbelieving broken branches of Israel.

They begin in 37 AD when Israel rejected the Pentecost gospel kingdom. They end when Jerusalem is destroyed in 70 AD and the people of Israel are scattered into the gentile nations.

The trumpets are the judgments against the broken branches as long as they continue to reject Jesus and the Pentecost kingdom.

 

The saints at the 5th seal are OT saints and not NT saints.

They are OT saints who were resurrected with Jesus at the first resurrection when Jesus was resurrected.

They are not members of the Pentecost kingdom.

 

The end of the church/Pentecost kingdom age is followed by the fire from heaven in Rev 20. 

That is where we are, just before the 2nd resurrection and the fire from heaven.

 

I know that you don't see it coming yet. But it is here, maybe a few years, 2? 20? 10? 1? 5? When ever Jerusalem falls, 3 1/2 days later, Jesus comes for the kingdom.

You and I must be reading a different book! I disagree with almost every point. 

[abcdef]

22 hours ago, Biblican said:

Sorry, we will have to agree to disagree. The preterist interpretation is not supported by scripture, or current events.

I'm not a preterist, that should be obvious after all this time.

Is every prophecy in the Bible future? Nothing is past?

When the symbols are taken as literal, it distorts the meaning.

What are the "living waters" that flow from Jerusalem? Zech 14:8

Are they literally water? Literal water, that is alive in some way?

Well you may say, that they are symbolic.

But then, what else in the passage is symbolic?

The seas that the waters flow to?

If the seas that the waters flow to are literal, then the living waters must be actual water that is alive.

But that is where the literalist viewpoint falls apart.  

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The problem is, that the symbolism is not even considered.

It is automatically rejected before it is even considered.

"Oh, that could be preterism, so don't even examine it to see if it might be true."

The reason that it is not considered, is that sometimes people find out that they have been, taught incorrectly.

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