JERUSALEM IS FALLING

[iamlamad]

52 minutes ago, abcdef said:

Rev 20:1, Is the key that is spoken of, a literal key? Like a key for a literal lock?

Is the chain that is spoken of, a literal chain? Iron or something?

V 2, Is the dragon, a literal dragon, like a dinosaur?

V 3, Is the abyss a literal hole in the ground? Is the seal, a literal seal?

Etc, etc.

These are, symbolic images, of literal entities and events.

The abyss is the place of the dead. That is, it is a place that is separated from God by a great distance. The entity is still "alive/conscious/aware and interacting", but on a much more limited basis than at the previous distance from God's throne.

The dragon with 7 heads and 10 horns (Rev 12:3) is Satan, the spirit of Satan in people, the people of a nation that hates the people of Israel and wants to destroy them, Rome.

It is Rome that rises up from the abyss (1929), and deceives the gentile nations into attacking Jerusalem. (Happening now)

There is no nation "Gog/Magog" today. They are all different nations now, with different names and borders. So if it were literal of the previous Magog/Gog nation, then that ancient nation with its borders would have to be recreated.

But it seems the name "Magog" is a symbolic image of an unnamed nation or group of nations in future time, or maybe our time.

 

The mill period, is the time of the Pentecost/new covenant kingdom/church on planet earth. Not some garden of Eden type place, that is not shown and is an assumption, going beyond what is said in the Rev 20 context.

The 1000 years represent a complete time, not necessarily literal.

The number is symbolic, just as many of the others in Rev and the rest of the Bible.

 

Paul and John said that there are only 2 resurrections. I gave you the scriptures.

Paul, 1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24.

John 5:25-29, 25, 28.

 

John 5: 25-29, Jesus only speaks twice.

The first time He speaks, only the ones who hear His voice are resurrected v 25.

The second time He speaks both good and evil rise v 29.

2 resurrections.

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First resurrection- The 144000, the multitude that no man can count (MTNMCC), the elders, the 5th seal martyrs, the beheaded Rev 20:4 (John the Baptist), are all from the first resurrection when Jesus rose in 33 AD. 

 

Second resurrection- Those who are "dead in Christ" in the Pentecost kingdom, those who are alive on planet earth in the kingdom, and then the rest of the dead.

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Those who are living in the kingdom at the time of the resur/rapt will be instantly be with Jesus. 

Those unbelievers who remain on planet earth, will die within a short time, and then be brought to judgment. According to Rev 11:13, it will be within the same hour, that the stone will strike, the fire from heaven.

So the amount of time that the 2nd resurrection takes, between the first who are dead in Christ and the last of the unbelievers to be killed, is a matter of hours, not a 1000 years between good and evil resurrections.

Rev 20:1, Is the key that is spoken of, a literal key? Like a key for a literal lock?

Is the chain that is spoken of, a literal chain? Iron or something? Does it make any difference what material this chain is? All we need know is it will be sufficient to bind Satan for a thousand years. As for the Key, we know that for now, this bottomless pit is locked in some way that prevents those stinging locusts from getting out, because at the 5th trumpet it is unlocked and they are loosed. Therefore, does it make any difference to us what kind of lock or what kind of  key? Not in my mind. 

V 2, Is the dragon, a literal dragon, like a dinosaur?

V 3, Is the abyss a literal hole in the ground? Is the seal, a literal seal?

These are, symbolic images  I agree. But even though symbolism is used, Satan will be locked up for one thousand years - HOW we don't need to know.  

The entity is still "alive/conscious/aware and interacting", but on a much more limited basis than at the previous distance from God's throne. Are you speaking of Satan the Dragon after he is locked up? If so, I disagree. He is not going to be doing any interacting.  Humans will be free from his deception for that one thousand years. 

It is Rome that rises up from the abyss (1929), and deceives the gentile nations into attacking Jerusalem. (Happening now)  Sorry, but Rome is not mentioned by name in Revelation. It is mentioned in passing when John speaks of the 7 mountains (Kingdoms) and 7 kings. Rome is the one that was while John was alive. It is the devil and his demons that are causing all the attacks against Israel today. The kingdom of the Beast is still future. He will not rise to power until the midpoint of the future 70th week. John saw that rising up at the midpoint.  Where on earth did you get that 1929?

it seems the name "Magog" is a symbolic image of an unnamed nation or group of nations in future time  Agreed. Or these terms may be symbolic of any nation who is in God's way, rebelling against God's will. However, it seems that Magog shows up in Turkey in ancient maps.

The mill period, is the time of the Pentecost/new covenant kingdom/church on planet earth. Not some garden of Eden type place,  If Jesus rules with a rod of iron, why would earth then not be much closer to what heaven is like, where God's will is always done? Isn't it written that if a child dies at 100 years, it would be very abnormal? Wouldn't it be abnormal of a lamb laid down by a lion and was safe?  I think the bible leans toward the garden of Eden! 

The 1000 years represent a complete time, not necessarily literal.  Why not literal? Does it make senses when taken literal? I think it does.

The number is symbolic,  Why? It makes perfect sense in its literal sense.

 

²³ But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

²⁴ Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

First, Paul is not trying to delineate all resurrections. Just because he mentions two does not mean there might not be more. He is talking about Christ and the church - not the world. Next, Revelation shows us events after Christ's coming and Jesus having put down all power. That will not happen until after the gog and magog battle in Rev. 20.

Next, John is not trying to delineate all resurrections either. He is talking about God's people, not the world. 

On the other hand, Revelation shows us there IS only two resurrections: one for the righteous and one for the unrighteous.  Since Paul shows us two: both for the righteous - Jesus resurrection first, followed by His saints -  the only conclusion is, the "first" or chief of resurrections in Rev. 20 includes all of God's people, the Old Testament saints, the New Testament saints, the 144,000,  and those beheaded by the Beast.

John 5:28 speaks of two also, but makes the first the resurrection of the righteous and the second as the resurrection for the damned. This fits what John wrote in Rev. 20. One must take all of these verses into consideration when forming a doctrine of resurrections. 

Jesus only speaks twice.  Are you saying his first is for HIS people, the second voice for the damned? You are leaving out the shout of 1 Thes. 4. Which of these two "speaks" is Paul speaking of? Or perhaps John did not cover the rapture of the church?

It is FAR wiser to form doctrine from a passage of many scriptures on a subject, versus a passage with one or two scriptures. For example, John quotes Jesus in two verses speaking of two resurrections (good and evil), but John in Revelation covers them in several verses. Jesus is giving us a bare minimum summary, while in Revelation gives us a more complete story. 

²⁵ Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

²⁶ For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; Notice the "for: John is going to expand on "the dead" and "they that hear."

²⁷ And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Notice the "and: this verse is a continuation of His expansion. 

²⁸ Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, This is still expanding on "the dead" and "they that hear." 

²⁹ And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Here He expands more: "The dead" and "they that hear" from verse 25 include both resurrections.  In conclusion here, Jesus speaks of two types of resurrections: one type for the righteous (Jesus included) and the other for the damned. This agrees with John in Rev. 20 AND with Paul in 1 thes 4.

First resurrection- The 144000, the multitude that no man can count (MTNMCC), the elders, the 5th seal martyrs, the beheaded Rev 20:4 (John the Baptist), are all from the first resurrection when Jesus rose in 33 AD.  Agreed: to a point: you left out the church. They also are included - seen seated on thrones judging. Then it seems you missed the OT saints too.  Jesus is included. All these span TIME. It does not happen all at the same time. Jesus raised happened long before the 144,000 will be caught up. In the order they will happen will be (and was) 

Jesus first with the elders
Then the rapture in 1 Thes. 4 (the large group no man could count)
Then the 144,000
Then the Old Testament saints plus the two witness plus the beheaded (at the 7th vial) 

All these are in the crowds in Rev. 19. Most, (except those beheaded) of these are seen seated on thrones judging in Rev. 20. Notice this is still "two" resurrections: one for the just, and one for the damned. 

The second or "second death" resurrection is for the damned. If there will be any deaths of the righteous during the millennial reign - I think Jesus would raise them back to life. I don't think there will be any righteous at the resurrection of the damned. John 5:29 does not seem to make room for any righteous in the second resurrection.  

 

¹³ And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

There is nothing about one hour here.

I don't think you and I are going to agree on much until we both arrive in heaven. 

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On 3/26/2021 at 10:19 AM, Eternally Gratefull said:

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There was no AOD in 70 ad. Jesus in Matt 24 says it is AFTER this that the great trib starts

The AoD was sometime between 37 AD and 70 AD.

If there had not an AoD in that time period, Jerusalem would not have been destroyed, because the AoD is one main factor that causes the destruction. 

In the context of the time period, of the AoD is to happen between Jesus and His ministry, and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

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There was tribulation when Rome invaded Israel in 63 BC.

There was tribulation before Jerusalem fell and after Jerusalem fell.

The tribulation scattering into the gentile nations period, begins after 70 AD.

It lasts until Jerusalem is restored to military control of Jerusalem which happened in 1967.

The trib periods in Matt 24 describe both the trouble before Jerusalem falls in 70 AD and after Jerusalem falls and the people are scattered.

 

On 3/26/2021 at 10:19 AM, Eternally Gratefull said:

70 AD fulfills the part that the people of the prince who will come will DESTROY the city and sanctuary. and it will lie desolate until a time determined.

According to Lk 21:20-24, 24, All that is required to restore Jerusalem and end the times of the gentiles is for Israel to end the trampling of the gentiles by taking military control of the city.

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On 4/4/2021 at 5:14 PM, iamlamad said:

The Rev 15-16, time line of the 7 vials ends at the 7th vial, when the planet is completely destroyed. 

The battle of Armageddon is over by the time of the 7th vial.  How can you even imagine that when John shows us the marriage supper happening after the 7th vial but before Jesus returns?

The supper and marriage do not happen until AFTER death is destroyed,

Rev 21:2, " .... prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

The Rev 19:7-10, reference is a prophecy of the wedding and not showing the wedding taking place at that time.

1 Cor 15:23-28, The time line shows that the kingdom is delivered up to God After death is destroyed.

 

On 4/4/2021 at 5:14 PM, iamlamad said:

Sorry, my friend, but there is TIME after the 7th vial, and before Armageddon.

You are making an assumption that the Rev 19 images are Armageddon, but it does not say that it is.

Rev 19 is showing the victory over the Roman Empire sea beast by the gospel.

Rome was divided and consumed by the Word of God gospel preaching.

 

On 4/4/2021 at 5:14 PM, iamlamad said:

What you imagine in "completely destroyed" is simply not true. Yes, there will be severe destruction, but not complete destruction.

No more mountains? No more islands? Sounds like complete destruction to me.

 

On 4/4/2021 at 5:14 PM, iamlamad said:

Especially not in the valley of Megiddo where Satan will gather the armies of the world. 

Ok, so every mountain and island are gone, except where the enemies of Israel are in the valley, does that make sense?

If God poured out His vial, wouldn't it be the enemies in the valley?

If He doesn't pour out the vial on the enemies of Israel, who does He pour out the vial on?

The vial is poured out on Jerusalem, because the armies of the world take Jerusalem and kill Israel.

 

On 4/4/2021 at 5:14 PM, iamlamad said:

Why is it people insist on rearranging Revelation? Do they imagine God mixed it up on purpose to make things difficult to understand?

Defining the time lines.

Even pretrib says that there are breaks in the time lines (Rev 11 and Rev 12).

The question is about where the breaks are and the placement of events in the time lines. 

 

On 4/4/2021 at 5:14 PM, iamlamad said:

 

^16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

²⁰ And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

²¹ And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

It sounds dreadful. But not all die.

No, all do die at the 7th vial.

The event that anchors the time line at the end is that men are able to enter into the temple of God Rev 15:8, after the 7th plague is done.

The event of men being able to enter the heavenly temple is shown in Rev 21:3.

This takes place after the last judgment and death is destroyed.

 

On 4/4/2021 at 5:14 PM, iamlamad said:

 

^18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

¹⁰ Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

¹¹ And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

Notice that the "kings of the earth" live through this. Notice that the merchants of the earth are still alive. 

This is showing the 70 AD destruction event and future from our present.

History to John in 96 AD ish.

 

On 4/4/2021 at 5:14 PM, iamlamad said:

 

^19:1And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

² For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

Notice that at this time, the first verses of chapter 19, the judgment shown at the 7th vial is over. But Jesus has not yet ascended. He will ascend after the marriage and supper.

The unbelieving broken branches people of Israel are the harlot shown in 96 AD ish.

 

On 4/4/2021 at 5:14 PM, iamlamad said:

After the 7th vial, there is no planet left except for fire. I am sorry, but I have to say this is only imagination. It does not follow the text.

The 7th vial is the fire from heaven shown in Rev 20:9, and the stone of Dan. 2:34-35.

The time line is not continual, but repeating.

 

On 4/4/2021 at 5:14 PM, iamlamad said:

The Rev 19 vision is showing the defeat of the of the sea beast, not the earth beast. The earth beast is shown in the remnant of the sea beast which continues to fight against Jesus and the Pentecost kingdom of Israel Rev 19:21.  I am sorry, but I have to say this is only imagination too. Notice this verse:  

²⁰ And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Yes, Caesar and the souls who were the beast nation are cast directly into eternal fire. They are judged already for not accepting Jesus as Savior.

 

On 4/4/2021 at 5:14 PM, iamlamad said:

There is nothing in Rev 19 that confirms this as the battle of Armageddon. I am sorry This is true, but we KNOW it is the battle of Armageddon from this verse.
 

^16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

It seems we disagree again. : -(((

2 different events, in 2 different timelines.

[iamlamad]

On 4/8/2021 at 8:45 PM, abcdef said:

The supper and marriage do not happen until AFTER death is destroyed,

Rev 21:2, " .... prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

The Rev 19:7-10, reference is a prophecy of the wedding and not showing the wedding taking place at that time.

I am beginning to see why we seldom agree on things in Revelation.

Do you not recognize a simile when you see one? John wrote "AS an bride adorned..."

The bride of Christ is not a city, and we will not "marry" a city. Neither will Jesus Christ "marry" or wed a city. 

Do you not believe what John wrote here?

"...the marriage of the Lamb is come..."

Granted, that "is come" is a Greek Aorist verb that does not show any "tense," but from chapter 1 to chapter 19 and beyond, John uses these verbs. We use the place in His narrative to find timing and the first use of a verb, such as the day of His wrath has come at the 6th seal is the first mention of wrath.

I would guess that nearly 100% of evangelical Christians believe the marriage and supper will take place some time after the rapture and before we return with Christ.  Why is this a common belief? Simply because of the place in John's narrative where he wrote about it. 

It seems you put no weight on John's written order of events. I put a LOT Of weight on John's order. I refuse to rearrange. No wonder we disagree.

[iamlamad]

On 4/8/2021 at 8:45 PM, abcdef said:

...

Defining the time lines.

Even pretrib says that there are breaks in the time lines (Rev 11 and Rev 12).

The question is about where the breaks are and the placement of events in the time lines. 
...

John gave us a timeline that works perfectly as written. I find no need to rearrange.

Yes, John did write intermissions  - breaks - in His main timeline of the seals, trumpets, and vials. 

Why the break between the 6th and 7th seal? (Chapter 7)

It is simple: before God can allow the 7th seal to be opened so that the book can be opened, two events MUST take place. These two events are covered in chapter 7: the 144,000 MUST be sealed for their protection, and the church must be seen safely in heaven. Then and only then can God allow the 70th week to begin.  Therefore, it makes perfect sense the way John covered these two events between the 6th and 7th seals.

John then wrote what I call "the midpoint intermission." Again it is between the 6th and 7th, but this time in the trumpets. Again the reason is the same. After the 6th trumpet (which ends the judgment of the trumpets) and before the 7th trumpet marks that moment in time that the man of sin will enter the temple, STUFF HAPPENS. John has to record what he saw happen in the vision. This is chapter 10.

Then in chapter 11, the man of sin will move to Jerusalem. (He must BE in Jerusalem to enter the temple in Jerusalem.) It seems he will bring many military troops with him, who, as Gentiles,  will trample the city for 42 months.  Next, the two witnesses will suddenly show up and begin their testimony: just 3 1/2 days before the midpoint when the man of sin will enter the temple.

Then those 3 1/2 days pass, and the man of sin will enter the temple and commit the abomination. And the 7th trumpet will sound, warning those in heaven that the days of GT are imminent. 

Again it is written in perfect order. There is no need to rearrange anything. However, I have no doubt you will read these verses differently. 

I see chapter 14 as an intermission also.

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On 4/10/2021 at 9:18 AM, iamlamad said:

John gave us a timeline that works perfectly as written. I find no need to rearrange.

The order of the book is not changed, this is a different way of looking at the time lines within the Rev.

We might agree that the main subject of the book/letter of Rev is the revealing of Jesus, His face, the face of God and eternity. That would be the overall view.

But within the letter, are several different images of the revealing and the events leading up to the revealing.

Determining the beginning and ending events of these separate time lines is one of the main keys that unlock the meaning of the images in the letter.

--

1st timeline, the scroll/book, Dan. 12:4.

Rev chs 4-11. Divided into 3 sections, seals, 1/2 hour of silence, and the trumpets.

The seals begin when Israel rejects the Holy Spirit gospel kingdom, 37 AD, and Jesus/God begins withdrawing His blessings and protection over Jerusalem and the people of Israel.

The 1/2 hour of silence is the time between 70 AD, after the great scattering of Israel, until 85-96 AD ish when the book of the seals was revealed to John and the planet. (Jesus had told the apostles that Jerusalem would be destroyed and trampled, and that Israel would be scattered into the gentile nations, but He didn't say how long it would be until Jerusalem was restored to the people of Israel. The apostles may have thought that the time would be short, maybe even 5-10 years after the fall while they were still alive, Jesus would come at the 2nd resurrection and they would be caught up at the rapture. It turns out that it was from 70 AD until 1967, almost 2000 years.)

The trumpets end with the revealing of Jesus at the 2nd resurrection/last trumpet resurrection when He comes for the kingdom, 1 Cor 15:23-28.

Then the story of the scroll/book Rev chs 4-11 ends and the story of the faithful good woman Rev 12 begins a new time line.

--

The Rev 12 faithful Israel begins when the dragon beast nation iron Rome invades Israel in 63 BC. The birth and ascent of Jesus is shown after the invasion. The time line ends when the woman's time in the wilderness of the gentile nations is over and she returns to sit in Jerusalem, 1967).

--

Rev 13, The beast time line.

Rev 14, The first resurrection and the people of Israel suffer while they are outside the city, until Jerusalem is restored.

Rev 15-16, The Roman beast and his followers, the time line begins in 70 AD and ends with the end of the planet. (Rev 15:8, men cannot enter the Temple of God until after the final judgment, Rev 21:3.)

Rev 17-18, The harlot Jerusalem/people of Israel as slaves of Rome. Begins when the first head rises, the invasion of Israel in 63 BC and ends when the power of the beast ends, when Jerusalem is restored to the control of the people of Israel.

Rev 19, shows the prophecy of the wedding and the victory over the Roman Empire by the dividing and consuming Pentecost gospel kingdom Word of God sword.

Rev chs 20, 21, 22 Begins at the first resurrection, which is Jesus, and ends when we are in His presence and see His face Rev 22:4

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The consecutive timeline theory is based on the idea that the 7 times are 7 years, which they are not.

The 7 times are the same time period as the statue in Dan. 2, the times of the gentiles.

The statue is divided into two periods of 3 1/2 times each.

The first time period is when Jerusalem falls to Babylon until 70 AD when the great scattering happens, Dan. 12:7, the first 3 1/2 times.

The second period is from 70 AD until Jerusalem is restored in 1967. The Revelation is showing the second time period of the statue from 70 AD until 1967.

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On 4/10/2021 at 9:18 AM, iamlamad said:

Yes, John did write intermissions  - breaks - in His main timeline of the seals, trumpets, and vials. 

 

On 4/10/2021 at 9:18 AM, iamlamad said:

 

 

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On 4/10/2021 at 9:18 AM, iamlamad said:

 

 

On 4/10/2021 at 9:18 AM, iamlamad said:

Why the break between the 6th and 7th seal? (Chapter 7)

It is simple: before God can allow the 7th seal to be opened so that the book can be opened, two events MUST take place.

 

On 4/10/2021 at 9:18 AM, iamlamad said:

These two events are covered in chapter 7: the 144,000 MUST be sealed for their protection,

The 144000 are all resurrected souls from Israel which were resurrected with Jesus at the first resurrection. They are seen in heaven with Jesus and John during the 85-96 AD ish time period. They are sealed against the second death. They are not future to us, but have been with Jesus since the first resurrection in 33 AD. Jacob, Moses, David, Daniel, John the Baptist who was beheaded by the Roman beast during the Roman tribulation/trouble, etc.

The multitude which no man could number Rev 7:9-17, are gentile souls who lived and died before the first resurrection 33 AD. Adam, Able, Noah, Abraham, Issac.

Souls from the 33AD new covenant gospel kingdom of Israel/church are not shown. They are the dead in Christ who will rise before the living at the second resurrection (rapture) when Jesus comes for the kingdom. Then it is the end, 1 Cor 15:23-28. 

Two resurrections,

1, Jesus and the good/saved OT saints. No one from the new covenant Pentecost kingdom is resurrected in 33 AD. The Pentecost kingdom/church hadn't begun yet. The saints from OT are the ones seen with John and Jesus in 96 AD ish.

2, Jesus comes for the Pentecost kingdom/church at the resur/rapt 2nd coming. All the souls, both good and evil are resurrected who died after the first resurrection in 33 AD. John 5:25-29.

The Pentecost kingdom of Israel is not taken to heaven until the 7th/last trumpet of Rev 11, which is the resur/rapt. Then it is the end.

 

On 4/10/2021 at 9:18 AM, iamlamad said:

and the church must be seen safely in heaven.

The kingdom/church is on planet earth until Jesus comes for us. After that, there is no planet left except fire, the fire from heaven Rev 20.

It is not the kingdom/church that is seen with Jesus and John in 96 AD ish, but the OT saints from the first resurrection.

 

On 4/10/2021 at 9:18 AM, iamlamad said:

Then and only then can God allow the 70th week to begin.

The 70th week began when Jesus began His ministry.

It ended 7 years later when Israel rejected the new covenant Pentecost kingdom.

Then the unbelieving natural branches were broken off.

 

On 4/10/2021 at 9:18 AM, iamlamad said:

Therefore, it makes perfect sense the way John covered these two events between the 6th and 7th seals.

The seventh seal was broken in the 85-96 AD ish time period by Jesus with John.

After that and since then, the 7 seal book has been open for everyone to read. (The story of the people of Israel from 70 AD until the 7th/last trumpet, 2 witnesses.)

It has been open for 1900 years.

On 4/10/2021 at 9:18 AM, iamlamad said:

John then wrote what I call "the midpoint intermission." Again it is between the 6th and 7th, but this time in the trumpets. Again the reason is the same. After the 6th trumpet (which ends the judgment of the trumpets)

 

On 4/10/2021 at 9:18 AM, iamlamad said:

and before the 7th trumpet marks that moment in time that the man of sin will enter the temple, STUFF HAPPENS. John has to record what he saw happen in the vision. This is chapter 10.

But Rev 10 doesn't say that the Antichrist enters a temple. You have added a lot of things that are not there, to make it fit a preconceived (7 year) timeline. 

 

On 4/10/2021 at 9:18 AM, iamlamad said:

 

 

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On 4/10/2021 at 9:18 AM, iamlamad said:

Then in chapter 11, the man of sin will move to Jerusalem. (He must BE in Jerusalem to enter the temple in Jerusalem.)

The AoD happened in the 37-70 AD time period. If it didn't, then Jerusalem would not have fallen.

The AoD cannot happen in the future because even if the temple would be rebuilt, it would not be able to be desecrated because the presence of the Holy Spirit is within us now and not some building.

Even if you did 1000 sacrifices and ceremonies, it would not bring the presence of God back. The curtain was torn from the top to the bottom and it cannot be put back.

 

On 4/10/2021 at 9:18 AM, iamlamad said:

It seems he will bring many military troops with him, who, as Gentiles,  will trample the city for 42 months.

Caesar, Rome and the gentile nations have already trampled Jerusalem for the 3 1/2 times, 70 AD until 1967.

The armies of the 6th trumpet and the 6th vial, which are beginning now, will eliminate the people of Israel from the planet. That is, if the planet were allowed to continue, the people of Israel would be absorbed into the gentile nations and be gone as a  genetic race. They are the salt of the planet earth, if the salt should lose its flavor, ......., or disappear, then what good is planet earth?

 

On 4/10/2021 at 9:18 AM, iamlamad said:

  Next, the two witnesses will suddenly show up and begin their testimony:

The 2 witnesses are the people of Israel.

They witness in sackcloth mourning for Jerusalem from 70 AD until they are restored to Jerusalem in 1967, (the second 3 1/2 times and the end of the toes in the statue of Dan. 2). Now they are witnessing in Jerusalem that Jesus is God's Son and Israel is God's people.

The restoration of Jerusalem to Israel is one sign of His coming, 1967, wake up!

 

On 4/10/2021 at 9:18 AM, iamlamad said:

just 3 1/2 days before the midpoint when the man of sin will enter the temple.

It is not the midpoint, it is the end of the timeline and of planet earth by fire at the 7th/last trumpet. 

The seals/trumpet timeline ends and the timeline begins again in Ch 12.

 

On 4/10/2021 at 9:18 AM, iamlamad said:

Then those 3 1/2 days pass, and the man of sin will enter the temple and commit the abomination.

It doesn't say that the Antichrist is in Jerusalem in the Rev 11 context, that is your assumption. The dragon beast nation Antichrist deceives the armies from across Euphrates to destroy Israel and take Jerusalem. Which is happening now, with the Vatican/Iran treaty. 

 

On 4/10/2021 at 9:18 AM, iamlamad said:

And the 7th trumpet will sound, warning those in heaven that the days of GT are imminent.

The trib is already over, it ended when Jerusalem was restored to Israel.

When the 7th trumpet sounds, this planet ends in fire. 

 

On 4/10/2021 at 9:18 AM, iamlamad said:

Again it is written in perfect order. There is no need to rearrange anything. However, I have no doubt you will read these verses differently. 

We have a few minor differences, ha, ha. Our faith in Jesus and the resurrection, surpasses all our differences about the future, brother.

Jesus said, feed my sheep. The food is good here.

 

On 4/10/2021 at 9:18 AM, iamlamad said:

I see chapter 14 as an intermission also.

Yes, it has its own timeline, just like the other images.

Understand, that the images all have their own timeline.

The 7 vials are not consecutive to the trumpets, but are showing the same time period from different perspectives.

70 AD until the end of the planet.

7 trumpets, The unbelieving flesh broken branches.

7 vials, The Roman beast and his associates. 

---

Decide which images are showing the same time lines.

You will eventually see that all the images are showing the timeline centered on the 70 AD -1967 period.

[iamlamad]

13 hours ago, abcdef said:

The AoD happened in the 37-70 AD time period. If it didn't, then Jerusalem would not have fallen.

The AoD cannot happen in the future because even if the temple would be rebuilt, it would not be able to be desecrated because the presence of the Holy Spirit is within us now and not some building.

Even if you did 1000 sacrifices and ceremonies, it would not bring the presence of God back. The curtain was torn from the top to the bottom and it cannot be put back.

Untold millions disagree with your theory. In truth, so does the book of Revelation. No one has EVER shown when each trumpet judgment came, because it is future, not past. Trying to find each one in history is an effort in futility: impossible. They did not happen back then.

Oh, Jerusalem did fall in 70 AD, but it was not the AoD - at least not the one that will happen some time on the future, AFTER the first 6 trumpet judgments, which will, without much doubt, include a nuclear exchange somewhere in the world, and probably against Israel. 

Who has ever said that the presence of God would be in this new temple? I have never heard anyone say it. In truth, the only presence of God in the temple back then, was when Jesus entered it!  But He never went into the Holy of Holies.  God left the temple in the days of Ezekiel.  

I am sure they created a new curtain or sewed that one back together.

There will be a new temple built. There will be daily sacrifices started again. But they will be stopped when the man of sin enters the Holy of Holies and declares he is God. But in the 3.5 years before that, the world will see the first 6 trumpet judgments come, exactly as John has written them. How could anyone miss a nuclear exchange? How could anyone miss stinging locusts that hurt so bad people try to kill themselves? How could anyone miss the heavenly army that will kill 1/3 of earth's population? In other words, trying to make Revelation history is MYTH. 

The rest of your post is quite like this part. You and I will disagree until we arrive in heaven. We read these scriptures differently. 

As for the 42 months of trampling, I agree, it is not written that the man of sin arrived in Jerusalem. God told me that. But then, no one can disprove it either. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by iamlamad
Added

[Justin Adams]

5 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Untold millions disagree with your theory.

Sad, but they are all wrong. Daniel was finished before the end of the first century and Revelation is its commentary.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Justin Adams