Bloodline of Jesus: Judah or Levi

[Jedi4Yahweh]

The bible says that Elizabeth and Mary were related and Elizabeth seems to be from the tribe of Levi since here husband was a Levite priest.  If so this seems to make Mary whom is related to Elizabeth from the tribe of Levi as well.  Jesus biological father was not Joseph whom was from the tribe of Judah because she was conceived by the Holy Spirit and not Joseph.  So this seems to make Jesus human bloodline come from Mary whom seems to be from the tribe of Levi and not Judah?  Unless Elizabeth was from Judah also but I am pretty sure Levites were not to mix their bloodlines with other tribes.   Whats your thoughts?

Edited August 15, 2020 by Jedi4Yahweh

[R. Hartono]

God did not need a man's element or a woman's ovum either as John 1:14 says the Words became flesh

Edited August 15, 2020 by R. Hartono

[JohnD]

10 hours ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

The bible says that Elizabeth and Mary were related and Elizabeth seems to be from the tribe of Levi since here husband was a Levite priest.  If so this seems to make Mary whom is related to Elizabeth from the tribe of Levi as well.  Jesus biological father was not Joseph whom was from the tribe of Judah because {HE} was conceived by {GOD THE FATHER} and not Joseph.  So this seems to make Jesus human bloodline come from Mary whom seems to be from the tribe of Levi and not Judah?  Unless Elizabeth was from Judah also but I am pretty sure Levites were not to mix their bloodlines with other tribes.   Whats your thoughts?

There are several suppositions here. 

The word used to describe Mary and Elizabeth as "relatives" could very well mean "countrymen. " Zachariah and Elizabeth may have haled from the same city as Mary (Nazareth or Bethlehem).

It could even loosely refer to them as children of Israel, but that is unlikely since the Bible is primarily involving children of Israel and it would be odd to suddenly mention they both were descendants of A,I, & J...

Elizabeth could have been a Judahite married to Zachariah a Levite. 

Joseph, the foster father of the Lord Jesus is of the bloodline of King David (through Solomon) Matthew 1.

Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ is of the bloodline of King David through David's son Nathan (Luke 3).

There is no question of the Judahite parentage in that household.

Matthew 1:20 (AV)
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

This does not assign fatherhood of the Lord Jesus to the Holy Ghost / Holy Spirit but rather states that the Holy Spirit / Holy Ghost placed the fully formed embryo into her womb. The Father (John 1:14, Hebrews 10:5, Hebrews 1:5) is the one who created the body of the Son). The Holy Ghost / Holy Spirit is no more the Father of Jesus than a Doctor performing in vitro fertilization is the father of that child.

By being gestated and birthed from an embryo rather that fully formed as an adult the same way Adam was...

Jesus met all the legal requirements of being a descendant of David, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Adam...

Jesus in body was and is just as human as anyone else. ← albeit now eternally resurrected body

Without sin.

To have the actual blood of Adam flowing through his veins (Adam's DNA in other words) would be to have

Adam's nature.

This brings up several theological possibilities for lengthy debate. For example is Adam's sin nature encoided

 in all his heirs? Is John 3:18 only referring to our being born without the knowledge of Christ rather than being condemned

already to hell for an inculcated fallen sin nature that only faith in Christ could save..?

I believe the answer is simple.

Jesus is in body a human being but he is another prototype human being like Adam was...

1 Corinthians 15:45 (AV)
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

That Jesus is a human race unto himself and he laid down that human race in sacrifice for our human race that fell.

To race it and us up again for all eternity (those who believe).

 

[Jedi4Yahweh]

7 hours ago, JohnD said:

There are several suppositions here. 

The word used to describe Mary and Elizabeth as "relatives" could very well mean "countrymen. " Zachariah and Elizabeth may have haled from the same city as Mary (Nazareth or Bethlehem).

It could even loosely refer to them as children of Israel, but that is unlikely since the Bible is primarily involving children of Israel and it would be odd to suddenly mention they both were descendants of A,I, & J...

Elizabeth could have been a Judahite married to Zachariah a Levite. 

Joseph, the foster father of the Lord Jesus is of the bloodline of King David (through Solomon) Matthew 1.

Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ is of the bloodline of King David through David's son Nathan (Luke 3).

There is no question of the Judahite parentage in that household.

Matthew 1:20 (AV)
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

This does not assign fatherhood of the Lord Jesus to the Holy Ghost / Holy Spirit but rather states that the Holy Spirit / Holy Ghost placed the fully formed embryo into her womb. The Father (John 1:14, Hebrews 10:5, Hebrews 1:5) is the one who created the body of the Son). The Holy Ghost / Holy Spirit is no more the Father of Jesus than a Doctor performing in vitro fertilization is the father of that child.

By being gestated and birthed from an embryo rather that fully formed as an adult the same way Adam was...

Jesus met all the legal requirements of being a descendant of David, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Adam...

Jesus in body was and is just as human as anyone else. ← albeit now eternally resurrected body

Without sin.

To have the actual blood of Adam flowing through his veins (Adam's DNA in other words) would be to have

Adam's nature.

This brings up several theological possibilities for lengthy debate. For example is Adam's sin nature encoided

 in all his heirs? Is John 3:18 only referring to our being born without the knowledge of Christ rather than being condemned

already to hell for an inculcated fallen sin nature that only faith in Christ could save..?

I believe the answer is simple.

Jesus is in body a human being but he is another prototype human being like Adam was...

1 Corinthians 15:45 (AV)
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

That Jesus is a human race unto himself and he laid down that human race in sacrifice for our human race that fell.

To race it and us up again for all eternity (those who believe).

 

Luke 3 & Mat 1 are describing the genealogy of Joseph not Mary.

[JohnD]

11 hours ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

Luke 3 & Mat 1 are describing the genealogy of Joseph not Mary.

So sorry... Matthew 1 = Joseph

Matthew 1 (AV)
1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;
3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;
4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;
5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;
8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;
9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;
10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;
11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;
13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;
15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Luke 3 = Mary

Luke 3 (AV)
22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
24 Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph,
25 Which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Amos, which was the son of Naum, which was the son of Esli, which was the son of Nagge,
26 Which was the son of Maath, which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Semei, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Juda,
27 Which was the son of Joanna, which was the son of Rhesa, which was the son of Zorobabel, which was the son of Salathiel, which was the son of Neri,
28 Which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Addi, which was the son of Cosam, which was the son of Elmodam, which was the son of Er,
29 Which was the son of Jose, which was the son of Eliezer, which was the son of Jorim, which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi,
30 Which was the son of Simeon, which was the son of Juda, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Jonan, which was the son of Eliakim,
31 Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David,
32 Which was the son of Jesse, which was the son of Obed, which was the son of Booz, which was the son of Salmon, which was the son of Naasson,
33 Which was the son of Aminadab, which was the son of Aram, which was the son of Esrom, which was the son of Phares, which was the son of Juda,
34 Which was the son of Jacob, which was the son of Isaac, which was the son of Abraham, which was the son of Thara, which was the son of Nachor,
35 Which was the son of Saruch, which was the son of Ragau, which was the son of Phalec, which was the son of Heber, which was the son of Sala,
36 Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech,
37 Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan,
38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Luke 3:23 is cleverly worded mentioning the foster parentage of Joseph and proceeding to the previous generation without naming Mary in this masculine lineage of Jesus 

back to Adam.

Matthew 1:16 mentions two females (Bathsheba alluded to and Mary specifically) but both as wives of the primaries in the otherwise masculine lineage of Joseph. 

Matthew 1 is the line of Solomon son of David.

Luke 3 is the line of Nathan son of David.

Since I am a bit rusty on this (going from memory from the 1990's) there is at least one leverite marriage in the line.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

11 minutes ago, JohnD said:

So sorry... Matthew 1 = Joseph

Matthew 1 (AV)
1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;
3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;
4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;
5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;
8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;
9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;
10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;
11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;
13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;
15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Luke 3 = Mary

Luke 3 (AV)
22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
24 Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph,
25 Which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Amos, which was the son of Naum, which was the son of Esli, which was the son of Nagge,
26 Which was the son of Maath, which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Semei, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Juda,
27 Which was the son of Joanna, which was the son of Rhesa, which was the son of Zorobabel, which was the son of Salathiel, which was the son of Neri,
28 Which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Addi, which was the son of Cosam, which was the son of Elmodam, which was the son of Er,
29 Which was the son of Jose, which was the son of Eliezer, which was the son of Jorim, which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi,
30 Which was the son of Simeon, which was the son of Juda, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Jonan, which was the son of Eliakim,
31 Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David,
32 Which was the son of Jesse, which was the son of Obed, which was the son of Booz, which was the son of Salmon, which was the son of Naasson,
33 Which was the son of Aminadab, which was the son of Aram, which was the son of Esrom, which was the son of Phares, which was the son of Juda,
34 Which was the son of Jacob, which was the son of Isaac, which was the son of Abraham, which was the son of Thara, which was the son of Nachor,
35 Which was the son of Saruch, which was the son of Ragau, which was the son of Phalec, which was the son of Heber, which was the son of Sala,
36 Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech,
37 Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan,
38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Luke 3:23 is cleverly worded mentioning the foster parentage of Joseph and proceeding to the previous generation without naming Mary in this masculine lineage of Jesus 

back to Adam.

Matthew 1:16 mentions two females (Bathsheba alluded to and Mary specifically) but both as wives of the primaries in the otherwise masculine lineage of Joseph. 

Matthew 1 is the line of Solomon son of David.

Luke 3 is the line of Nathan son of David.

Since I am a bit rusty on this (going from memory from the 1990's) there is at least one leverite marriage in the line.

That's pure speculation that it is Mary's genealogy and there is no mention of it being Mary's genealogy and it specifically mentions its Joseph (Jesus adopted father) in both genealogies.   I agree we have to assume that its Mary's but it does not state that, but only mentions Joseph.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Jedi4Yahweh

[Kristin]

Mary and Joseph are both a descendant of David. That is key. At least one is a descendant Of Judah. Jesus is a priest in the order of Melchizedek. Not Levi. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Kristin

[JohnD]

7 hours ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

That's pure speculation that it is Mary's genealogy and there is no mention of it being Mary's genealogy and it specifically mentions its Joseph (Jesus adopted father) in both genealogies.   I agree we have to assume that its Mary's but it does not state that, but only mentions Joseph.

Glad we agree... but I also want to reiterate that...

Luke 3:23 is cleverly worded mentioning the foster parentage of Joseph and proceeding to the previous generation without naming Mary in this masculine lineage of Jesus...

to seem to indicate this is about Joseph, but it is not his lineage at all (when compared to Matthew 1 which goes through the royal procession of Solomon and the one in Luke goes through David's son Nathan).

Either that or the Word of God can't get Joseph's lineage right.  

[Jedi4Yahweh]

On 8/16/2020 at 1:25 AM, Kristin said:

Mary and Joseph are both a descendant of David. That is key. At least one is a descendant Of Judah. Jesus is a priest in the order of Melchizedek. Not Levi. 

It mentions Joseph was a descendant of David but Mary was a relative of Elizabeth whom was a decedent of Aaron (Levite).  This means Mary is also descendant of Aaron (Levite) since they are relatives.

There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife [was] of the daughters of Aaron, and her name [was] Elizabeth. - Luk 1:5 NKJV

[Angel speaking to Mary:]  And behold, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren. - Luk 1:36 ESV

So we know Joseph was not the biological parent of Jesus only Mary so its strange to say that Jesus is a descendant of David...yet the bible makes this clear he is.

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Jedi4Yahweh