When is the rapture?

[John n Claudia]

11 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Let us agree to disagree as we do. Though I believe all the empires are of the one influence,

Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 
The world powers that these animals represent are all combined into this one "beast".    

We may be saying the same thing in different ways though
 

 

The two witnesses. 

"These are not going to be two specific individuals" 

so when the Bible describes two prophets as the two witnesses, how do they become

"These are not going to be two specific individuals who magically appear out of nowhere to call down plagues on the empire of the Antichrist.  These are going to be two groups of people ..."?

 

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Revelation 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

Revelation 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Revelation 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

Revelation 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Revelation 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

DeighAnn,

These are all wonderful references.  Let us start with Revelation 11:4 which tells us that the two witnesses are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks.  This is our introduction to the two witnesses and what is said about them here should give us the best insight into who they are.  Nowhere in scripture does an olive tree refer to a specific individual.  However, throughout scripture the two olive trees are used as pictures of the Jews and the Church.  The Jews are the cultivated olive tree and the church is the wild olive tree.  On top of this, when we go back to Revelation 1:20, we see that in the very beginning of Revelation, Jesus tells us that the seven candlesticks are the seven churches.  This tells us that in at least one place in the story of the end times a candlestick is used to represent the church, so it seems reasonable that the candlesticks in Revelation 1:20 and Revelation 11:4 represent the same thing. 

With this in mind, 11:5 is telling us that the fire proceeding out of their mouths is the fire of the Word of God.  The Word is also a two edged sword that divides the soul and the spirit and it is this division that will devour those who are persecuting them and will eventually lead to their death in the lake of fire.

11:6 is also going to happen.  These two groups will be very familiar with the Bible and the power that God has given them during this time.  Now let us take a look at what they are going to do.  They will call down plagues; this is the first of the seven bowls and the people worshiping the beast will be inflicted with sores all over their bodies.  They will turn the water to blood, first the oceans and then the lakes and rivers; these are the second and third bowls.  They will stop the rain for 3.5 years causing the Euphrates to dry up; this is the sixth bowl.  The first six bowls are all the result of the prayers of these two witnesses during the last 3.5 years before Jesus returns.

11:7 then tells us that the beast shall kill the two witnesses.  The beast is the last empire that has characteristics of the previous seven.  This means that it is a group of people, not an individual.  Since the beast, a group of people, defeats the witnesses, the witnesses should also be groups.  If the two witnesses were specific individuals, they would be killed by specific individuals and not by a group.

11:8 - 10 then describes the celebration that occurs because the empire of the antichrist has finally managed to get rid of the last of those pesky Christians and Jews who were telling the empire that the real Jesus would return to vindicate the witnesses.

11:11 - 12 then describes the rapture.

 

In addition to this, we need to also look at what the world believes will happen because this is a deception from Satan who wants to confuse people.  Today, almost everybody believes that the two witnesses are two specific individuals.  Moses and Elijah are the witnesses in most of the interpretations I have looked at, but there are other varieties.  These individuals will walk around the city of Jerusalem spewing forth actual fire out of their mouths that burn up anyone who dares to attack them.  If this were to actually happen and the two specific individuals were doing this for 3.5 years, then anybody who looked at what was written in Revelation 11 would immediately see the fulfillment of this prophecy.  This would be so unique that there could not be any doubt regarding what is happening and we would see many people joining with these witnesses and opposing the people attacking them.  This would be so obvious that a very cursory reading of Revelation leaves no doubt about what is happening. 

But we know that many people will be deceived and they will not recognize the signs.  Satan has spread the lie that these will be two specific individuals so that when two individuals do not show up and instead there are just those crazy Jews and fanatic Christians who deny what everyone else is saying about the return of Jesus, it will be easy to miss that these two groups are the two witnesses and that they are doing everything that the Bible tells us they will do.

[iamlamad]

On 8/22/2020 at 6:37 AM, Moby said:

Good morning Brethren!

Brother "Alive" sent me over here to ask this question I posted in "Worthy Welcome".

I have been looking for a good explanation on the timing of the rapture as there seems to be so much dissension out there among the brethren as to whether it happens before 7 years of tribulation, 3.5 years into the tribulation, or after the tribulation.

I am so tired of opening link after link where the teachers give nothing more than their opinions on when this event happens with the same verses that really have nothing to do with the timing of the rapture before, during, or after the tribulation.

When I searched for "the rapture is after the tribulation" this link came up on the first page:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

In all of my searches on the subject of the rapture, this is the first link that provides multitudes of scripture to prove there is another full year after the 7 years of tribulation that the author says is when the "day of the Lord" takes place.

Has anyone here ever heard of this teaching? I would have copied and pasted the contents of the link here but it is just too voluminous with scripture so could someone with a hunger of this topic take a look at it so we can discuss it as it certainly has my attention?

All the scriptures in that link fit nicely into this timeline which makes me even more convinced this is truth:

I<---------------Tribulation------------->I<-----------Great Tribulation---------------->I<----------------------1 year of Wrath(365 days)------------------>I

I<---------------1260 days------------->I<----------------1290 days------------------->I<-------------45 days------->I<-----------320 days----------------->I

Covenant      seals 2-4                midst                  seals 5 & 6                 7th seal           Trumps 2-7                         7 bowls                   Jesus

with                 opened            Abomination              opened                      marks            blown during                        poured                  returns

many                                        of Desolation                                                End of          1st~45 days of                    in heaven               to earth

starts                                              set up                                                     7 years          wrath 7th & last                  while church         Rev ch19

Tribulation                                                                                                   1st Trump           trump calls                       at marriage

1st Seal                                                                                                           starts             church home                        supper

opened                                                                                                            wrath

Readers, this is all myth, and probably comes from Rob, who does not believe in the trinity. 
The Day of Wrath starts at the 6th seal as the Day of the Lord, and continues on  - at least to the 7th vial that ends the week. 
The first 6 trumpets take up the first half of the 70th week that BEGINS with the 7th seal and the 30 minutes of silence. 

The vials come late in the last half of the week. God made this easy: the 70th week is marked by 7's: 7th seal - 7th trumpet - 7th vial.

Oh, I am wrong: he got one thing right: the abomination will divide the week.  "Rob" from the link site is wrong on almost everything concerning the rapture and Revelation.

For the readers, this link takes you to a website of myth: a writing that denies the trinity. RUN!

Edited September 12, 2020 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

On 9/8/2020 at 11:31 PM, The Light said:

Right and if the Word said the nations ARE angry and your wrath has come, you might have a point.

Rev 11

¹⁸ And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

And you seem to forget:

Rev 10

⁷ But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

And of course:

Rev 11

¹⁵ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Maybe you have trouble understanding that at the end of the 6th seal Jesus has come and they know wrath is come. When do they see the wrath begin? When the 7th seal is opened and the 1st trumpet sounds.

Rev 6

¹⁶ And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

¹⁷ For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

So riddle me this. So, you don't think that slaying 1/3 of mankind happens during the wrath of God.

Rev 9

¹⁴ Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

¹⁵ And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

¹⁶ And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

¹⁷ And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

¹⁸ By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

¹⁹ For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

²⁰ And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

And then how do 1/3 of mankind get killed at the 6th trump and the Euphrates is not dry for them to cross until the 6th vial. Makes ZERO sense. That should you tell you that the trumps and vials are just different views of what will happen, meaning that both the trumpets and vials are God's wrath.

It seems obvious that your logic is failing. You seem to be having problems drawing proper conclusions beginning with the fact that Noah was in the ark 7 days before the flood.

Right. No use reading and understanding that the mystery of God is finished when the 7th angel begins to blow the trumpet.

No use reading and understanding that the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our God at the 7th trumpet.

I guess these verses mean nothing. *time for weak unicorn response when you got nothing.

If you had any understanding you would realize that you are looking at the Great Tribulation in Rev 6 at the 5th seal and you are looking at the Great Tribulation in Rev 14 just before Jesus comes. Not much chance you can do anything with the truth, is there?

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but are you saying that you need to be WORTHY TO FLEE? Where are you fleeing to? I know where I am escaping to, and that is to stand before the son of man just like the Word says.

You was doing OK until this: And then how do 1/3 of mankind get killed at the 6th trump and the Euphrates is not dry for them to cross until the 6th vial. Makes ZERO sense.

Of course it makes sense. Angels can FLY - they don't need to cross a river, they can fly OVER the river - but then, crossing the river is not talking about the one third slain. 

That should you tell you that the trumps and vials are just different views of what will happen, meaning that both the trumpets and vials are God's wrath.  Myth and truth in one sentence! How can you do this? Get this straight, once and for all time: trumpets come in the first half of the week, vials in the second half. It is a simply concept. 

It seems obvious that your logic is failing.   We understand: you have a corner on logic. HA!

No use reading and understanding that the mystery of God is finished when the 7th angel begins to blow the trumpet.  But what IS that mystery? Will you confuse it with one of Paul's mysteries? 

No use reading and understanding that the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our God at the 7th trumpet.  Do you imagine that Jesus takes physical possession here?

If you had any understanding   We already know you  have a "corner" in understanding Revelation. Well, you THINK you do! We know it is not true. 

the Great Tribulation in Rev 6 at the 5th seal   WHICH "the great tribulation?" Certainly not the days of "great tribulation" Jesus spoke of! 

John, and the Holy Spirit behind him is speaking (the great crowd too large to number) of all of the combined tribulations of every believer during the church age. You must learn the difference between "great tribulation"s: John mentions two, and Jesus one. 

Edited September 12, 2020 by iamlamad

[Moby]

21 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Readers, this is all myth, and probably comes from Rob, who does not believe in the trinity. 
The Day of Wrath starts at the 6th seal as the Day of the Lord, and continues on  - at least to the 7th vial that ends the week. 
The first 6 trumpets take up the first half of the 70th week that BEGINS with the 7th seal and the 30 minutes of silence. 

The vials come late in the last half of the week. God made this easy: the 70th week is marked by 7's: 7th seal - 7th trumpet - 7th vial.

Oh, I am wrong: he got one thing right: the abomination will divide the week.  "Rob" from the link site is wrong on almost everything concerning the rapture and Revelation.

For the readers, this link takes you to a website of myth: a writing that denies the trinity. RUN!

This poor soul does not see what our Father hid in His prophets of the OT that clearly proves the wrath is after the tribulation:

Now lets take a look at how Father gave us the sun, moon, and stars for signs to prove there is another year after the tribulation when the wrath of God is poured out:

Genesis 1:14-16 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years: (15) and let them be for lights in the firmament of heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. (16) And God made the two great lights; the greater light(sun) to rule the day, and the lesser light(moon) to rule the night: he made the stars also.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God appointed us not unto wrath, but unto the obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Let’s go back to the Olivet discourse where Jesus gives us our first sign:

Matthew 24:29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

So “immediately after the tribulation” the sun and moon are darkened but this darkened sun and moon happens “before” the great and notable day of the Lord comes:

Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the day of the Lord come, That great and notable day.

Joel 2:30-31 And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. (31) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of Jehovah cometh.

So Jesus opens the 6th seal to show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke that cause the sun and moon to darken to mark the end of the 7 years of tribulation and the beginning of “the day of the Lord” where God and His Lamb pour out their wrath:

Revelation 6:12-17 And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the whole moon became as blood; (13) and the stars of the heaven fell unto the earth, as a fig tree casteth her unripe figs when she is shaken of a great wind. (14) And the heaven was removed as a scroll when it is rolled up; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. (15) And the kings of the earth, and the princes, and the chief captains, and the rich, and the strong, and every bondman and freeman, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains; (16) and they say to the mountains and to the rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: (17) for the great day of their wrath is come; and who is able to stand?

Zephaniah 1:14-15 The great day of the Lord is near, it is near and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of Jehovah; the mighty man crieth there bitterly. (15) That day is a day of wrath, a day of anguish and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

Zephaniah, Isaiah, Paul, and Peter are speaking of the exact same “day of the Lord” that is to come “after the tribulation”:

Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger; to make the land a desolation, and to destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

So lets see if we can find some more clues as to how long “the day of the Lord” is:

Jeremiah 46:10 For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.

Isaiah 34:8 For Jehovah has a day of vengeance, the year of recompense for the cause of Zion.

Isaiah 61:2 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor, the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Isaiah 63:4 For the day of vengeance was in my heart, the year of my redeemed is come.

From those 4 passages above we can conclude “the day of the Lord” is also called “the day of vengeance of our God” to proclaim “the year of the Lord’s favor” that He also declares is “the year of recompense” and the “year of the His redeemed” when he pours out His wrath which comes  after the tribulation is over and the sun and moon are darkened:

Mark 13:24-25 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, (25) and the stars shall be falling from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens shall be shaken.

For more understanding on this unleavened truth please go to this link:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

[iamlamad]

On 9/13/2020 at 6:02 AM, Moby said:

This poor soul does not see what our Father hid in His prophets of the OT that clearly proves the wrath is after the tribulation:

Now lets take a look at how Father gave us the sun, moon, and stars for signs to prove there is another year after the tribulation when the wrath of God is poured out:

Genesis 1:14-16 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years: (15) and let them be for lights in the firmament of heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. (16) And God made the two great lights; the greater light(sun) to rule the day, and the lesser light(moon) to rule the night: he made the stars also.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God appointed us not unto wrath, but unto the obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Let’s go back to the Olivet discourse where Jesus gives us our first sign:

Matthew 24:29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

So “immediately after the tribulation” the sun and moon are darkened but this darkened sun and moon happens “before” the great and notable day of the Lord comes:

Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the day of the Lord come, That great and notable day.

Joel 2:30-31 And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. (31) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of Jehovah cometh.

So Jesus opens the 6th seal to show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke that cause the sun and moon to darken to mark the end of the 7 years of tribulation and the beginning of “the day of the Lord” where God and His Lamb pour out their wrath:

Revelation 6:12-17 And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the whole moon became as blood; (13) and the stars of the heaven fell unto the earth, as a fig tree casteth her unripe figs when she is shaken of a great wind. (14) And the heaven was removed as a scroll when it is rolled up; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. (15) And the kings of the earth, and the princes, and the chief captains, and the rich, and the strong, and every bondman and freeman, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains; (16) and they say to the mountains and to the rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: (17) for the great day of their wrath is come; and who is able to stand?

Zephaniah 1:14-15 The great day of the Lord is near, it is near and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of Jehovah; the mighty man crieth there bitterly. (15) That day is a day of wrath, a day of anguish and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

Zephaniah, Isaiah, Paul, and Peter are speaking of the exact same “day of the Lord” that is to come “after the tribulation”:

Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger; to make the land a desolation, and to destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

So lets see if we can find some more clues as to how long “the day of the Lord” is:

Jeremiah 46:10 For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.

Isaiah 34:8 For Jehovah has a day of vengeance, the year of recompense for the cause of Zion.

Isaiah 61:2 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor, the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Isaiah 63:4 For the day of vengeance was in my heart, the year of my redeemed is come.

From those 4 passages above we can conclude “the day of the Lord” is also called “the day of vengeance of our God” to proclaim “the year of the Lord’s favor” that He also declares is “the year of recompense” and the “year of the His redeemed” when he pours out His wrath which comes  after the tribulation is over and the sun and moon are darkened:

Mark 13:24-25 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, (25) and the stars shall be falling from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens shall be shaken.

For more understanding on this unleavened truth please go to this link:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

Just like someone that denies the trinity: attempt to use Genesis to disprove what Revelation teaches. My Univeristy professor taught us that we should ALWAYS form doctrine from the latest revelation from heaven, and from the most complete, then fill in missing pieces, if possible, for other passages. My friend, Revelation is both the latest revelation and it is the most complete. End times doctrine should be formed from Revelation, not the book of beginnings! 

So “immediately after the tribulation” the sun and moon are darkened but this darkened sun and moon happens “before” the great and notable day of the Lord comes:  Sorry, but you have made a HUGE error; the same error Van Kampen and Rosenthal made, and ruined their ministries. 

WHAT error? Yes, indeed, there will be signs in the sun and moon AFTER the days of GT (Matthew 24 and Joel 3). But these signs spell TOTAL DARKNESS: neither the sun or the moon will be visible. Not even the stars will give light. (Revelation gives us this information.) But the Greek word for darkened, in Matthew 24, when it is used about heavenly planets, means deprived of light-  ANY light- which of course means total darkness. 

However, what you have missed is this: over 7 years PREVIOUS to this sign of total darkness, the sign of HIS COMING, there will be a DIFFERENT sign as the sign of the Day of the Lord, here the moon will appear blood red (must be visible to know) and the sun appear black (must be visible to know) It is a DIFFERENT sign for a different purpose.  (The sign at the 6th seal and at Joel 2) 

Now that you know, you can leave the start of THE DAY right where John put it, at the 6th seal and before the start of the 70th week. 

Again I must warn the readers, if you follow the link, it will take you to a website written by Rob, and man that denies the trinity!  Someone that does not even know our triune GOD is going to teach us end times? RUN!

Edited September 14, 2020 by iamlamad

[Moby]

7 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Just like someone that denies the trinity: attempt to use Genesis to disprove what Revelation teaches. My Univeristy professor taught us that we should ALWAYS form doctrine from the latest revelation from heaven, and from the most complete, then fill in missing pieces, if possible, for other passages. My friend, Revelation is both the latest revelation and it is the most complete. End times doctrine should be formed from Revelation, not the book of beginnings! 

So “immediately after the tribulation” the sun and moon are darkened but this darkened sun and moon happens “before” the great and notable day of the Lord comes:  Sorry, but you have made a HUGE error; the same error Van Kampen and Rosenthal made, and ruined their ministries. 

WHAT error? Yes, indeed, there will be signs in the sun and moon AFTER the days of GT (Matthew 24 and Joel 3). But these signs spell TOTAL DARKNESS: neither the sun or the moon will be visible. Not even the stars will give light. (Revelation gives us this information.) But the Greek word for darkened, in Matthew 24, when it is used about heavenly planets, means deprived of light-  ANY light- which of course means total darkness. 

However, what you have missed is this: over 7 years PREVIOUS to this sign of total darkness, the sign of HIS COMING, there will be a DIFFERENT sign as the sign of the Day of the Lord, here the moon will appear blood read (must be visible to know) and the sun appear black (must be visible to know) It is a DIFFERENT sign for a different purpose.  (The sign at the 6th seal and at Joel 2) 

Now that you know, you can leave the start of THE DAY right where John put it, at the 6th seal and before the start of the 70th week. 

Again I must warn the readers, if you follow the link, it will take you to a website written by Rob, and man that denies the trinity!  Someone that does not even know our triune GOD is going to teach us end times? RUN!

This poor soul was taught by a progressive professor how to study the bible when Father taught us in His Word how to study His Word:

Isaiah 28:9-10  Whom will he teach knowledge? and whom will he make to understand the message? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts? (10) For it is precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, there a little.

Proverbs 25:2  It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

Jesus also promised us that He would only speak in parables what has been hidden from the foundation of the world:

Matthew 13:34-35  All these things spake Jesus in parables unto the multitudes; and without a parable spake he nothing unto them: (35) that it might be fulfilled which was spoken through the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things hidden from the foundation of the world.

This requires us to seek our sufficiency in understanding the scriptures through the Spirit of our Father:

2 Corinthians 3:4-6  And such confidence have we through Christ to God-ward: (5) not that we are sufficient of ourselves, to account anything as from ourselves; but our sufficiency is from God; (6) who also made us sufficient as ministers of a new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Father concealed the prophecy of His Son throughout the OT prophets as precepts and lines here a little, there a little so that even John the Baptist did not recognize Jesus until the Holy Spirit revealed Him:

John 1:10 & 31-33  He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world knew him not….(31) And I knew him not; but that he should be made manifest to Israel, for this cause came I baptizing in water. (32) And John bare witness, saying, I have beheld the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven; and it abode upon him. (33)  And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize in water, he said unto me, Upon whomsoever thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and abiding upon him, the same is he that baptizeth in the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 1:19-21  And we have the word of prophecy made more sure; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day-star arise in your hearts: (20) knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of private interpretation. (21) For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit.

We must ask ourselves: “Why are there so many doctrinal differences if the Holy Spirit only ever teaches one truth on any given doctrine?”:

John 14:26  But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you.

Many denomination use this very poorly translated passage to justify dividing the scriptures:

KJV~2 Timothy 2:15  Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

When if fact  Jesus told us “the scriptures cannot be broken” when He proved He was the “Word of God” in the OT who our Father sanctified as the “son of God” of the NT through whom many “gods” are being called:

John 10:34-36  Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? (35) If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken), (36) say ye of him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Paul actually said we will only be approved of God if we diligently handle aright the word of truth:

ASV~2 Timothy 2:15  Give diligence to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, handling aright the word of truth.

We are not to go beyond what is written as so many denominations are doing today but seek out the hidden precepts from Genesis through Revelation and bring them together precept upon associated precept in our quest to discover the sum of His truth:

1 Corinthians 4:6  Now these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes; that in us ye might learn not to go beyond the things which are written; that no one of you be puffed up for the one against the other.

Paul demanded all the brethren in all his churches think, speak, and teach the same doctrines:

1 Corinthians 1:10  Now I beseech you, brethren, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfected together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Paul taught the whole counsel of God but warned us that soon after he departed, over 1900 years ago, that men within the church would begin to deviate from the whole counsel thus perverting the truth:

Acts 20:27-30  For I shrank not from declaring unto you the whole counsel of God. (28) Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood. (29) I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock; (30) and from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.

We must never build doctrines on a few selected scriptures that paint only a partial picture but consider every associated scripture to produce the sum of His truth:

2 Timothy 3:16-17  Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness: (17) that the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work.

Matthew 4:4  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Psalms 119:160  The sum of thy word is truth; And every one of thy righteous ordinances endureth for ever.

Here at sum of thy Word; all that is asked of you is that you approach each teaching with an open mind only to what our Father’s Word is simply saying as precept upon precept here a little there a little so that you might prevail when we are judged before our Father:

Romans 3:4  God forbid: yea, let God be found true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy words, And mightest prevail when thou comest into judgment.

1 John 4:1  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

My promise to you is that I will continue to add more scripture to each teaching already posted as the Holy Spirit leads as well as continue working on several other teachings in draft until they have enough scripture to pass the test as unleavened bread of sincerity and truth:

1 Corinthians 5:7-8  Purge out the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, even as ye are unleavened. For our passover also hath been sacrificed, even Christ: (8) wherefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Please feel free to use and distribute all material within this site to the glory of our Father through His Son and if you have been blessed by this site or have any questions please send me an email via “contact” above!

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Moby said:

This poor soul was taught by a progressive professor how to study the bible when Father taught us in His Word how to study His Word:

Isaiah 28:9-10  Whom will he teach knowledge? and whom will he make to understand the message? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts? (10) For it is precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, there a little.

Proverbs 25:2  It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

Jesus also promised us that He would only speak in parables what has been hidden from the foundation of the world:

Matthew 13:34-35  All these things spake Jesus in parables unto the multitudes; and without a parable spake he nothing unto them: (35) that it might be fulfilled which was spoken through the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things hidden from the foundation of the world.

This requires us to seek our sufficiency in understanding the scriptures through the Spirit of our Father:

2 Corinthians 3:4-6  And such confidence have we through Christ to God-ward: (5) not that we are sufficient of ourselves, to account anything as from ourselves; but our sufficiency is from God; (6) who also made us sufficient as ministers of a new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Father concealed the prophecy of His Son throughout the OT prophets as precepts and lines here a little, there a little so that even John the Baptist did not recognize Jesus until the Holy Spirit revealed Him:

John 1:10 & 31-33  He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world knew him not….(31) And I knew him not; but that he should be made manifest to Israel, for this cause came I baptizing in water. (32) And John bare witness, saying, I have beheld the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven; and it abode upon him. (33)  And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize in water, he said unto me, Upon whomsoever thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and abiding upon him, the same is he that baptizeth in the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 1:19-21  And we have the word of prophecy made more sure; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day-star arise in your hearts: (20) knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of private interpretation. (21) For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit.

We must ask ourselves: “Why are there so many doctrinal differences if the Holy Spirit only ever teaches one truth on any given doctrine?”:

John 14:26  But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you.

Many denomination use this very poorly translated passage to justify dividing the scriptures:

KJV~2 Timothy 2:15  Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

When if fact  Jesus told us “the scriptures cannot be broken” when He proved He was the “Word of God” in the OT who our Father sanctified as the “son of God” of the NT through whom many “gods” are being called:

John 10:34-36  Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? (35) If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken), (36) say ye of him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Paul actually said we will only be approved of God if we diligently handle aright the word of truth:

ASV~2 Timothy 2:15  Give diligence to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, handling aright the word of truth.

We are not to go beyond what is written as so many denominations are doing today but seek out the hidden precepts from Genesis through Revelation and bring them together precept upon associated precept in our quest to discover the sum of His truth:

1 Corinthians 4:6  Now these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes; that in us ye might learn not to go beyond the things which are written; that no one of you be puffed up for the one against the other.

Paul demanded all the brethren in all his churches think, speak, and teach the same doctrines:

1 Corinthians 1:10  Now I beseech you, brethren, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfected together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Paul taught the whole counsel of God but warned us that soon after he departed, over 1900 years ago, that men within the church would begin to deviate from the whole counsel thus perverting the truth:

Acts 20:27-30  For I shrank not from declaring unto you the whole counsel of God. (28) Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood. (29) I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock; (30) and from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.

We must never build doctrines on a few selected scriptures that paint only a partial picture but consider every associated scripture to produce the sum of His truth:

2 Timothy 3:16-17  Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness: (17) that the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work.

Matthew 4:4  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Psalms 119:160  The sum of thy word is truth; And every one of thy righteous ordinances endureth for ever.

Here at sum of thy Word; all that is asked of you is that you approach each teaching with an open mind only to what our Father’s Word is simply saying as precept upon precept here a little there a little so that you might prevail when we are judged before our Father:

Romans 3:4  God forbid: yea, let God be found true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy words, And mightest prevail when thou comest into judgment.

1 John 4:1  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

My promise to you is that I will continue to add more scripture to each teaching already posted as the Holy Spirit leads as well as continue working on several other teachings in draft until they have enough scripture to pass the test as unleavened bread of sincerity and truth:

1 Corinthians 5:7-8  Purge out the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, even as ye are unleavened. For our passover also hath been sacrificed, even Christ: (8) wherefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Please feel free to use and distribute all material within this site to the glory of our Father through His Son and if you have been blessed by this site or have any questions please send me an email via “contact” above!

You remind me of a guy in my basic training unit years ago. It seems he always started out on the wrong foot when marching so was always out of step. In other words, start out wrong and you will end wrong. The truth of scripture is that the cosmic signs will be seen TWICE more, first as the sign of the Day of the Lord, as in the moon appearing blood red, and the sun appearing black. What CAUSES the moon to appear blood red, and what causes the sun to appear black? It is total eclipses. But for anyone to know if the moon was blood red, they would have to SEE it: these signs are visible, else no one would know. We can be sure God will have a sign that many can see and know. 

It just makes good sense, if there is a book with many chapters on the 70th week, and we wish to learn about the 70th week, we would go to the place with the most information. Daniel has a few verses about the 70th week, and the minor prophets have a few verses, but Revelation has chapters on it. God is a self-revealing God: If he did not reveal things, we would know nothing of Him. Over time, He reveals more and more. Again, it makes good sense that LATER passages give us a clearer picture than earlier passages. For example, if one wanted to study the soul, some go to Genesis and get one theory: the complete human is also called a soul. But if we study the Pauline Epistles, we find out the complete human is Spirit, soul, and body. We also find out that occasionally the bible uses "soul" as the complete human, but other times, not. 

“Why are there so many doctrinal differences if the Holy Spirit only ever teaches one truth on any given doctrine?”:  Its very simple: first, the majority of believers today SKIP OVER Acts chapter 1 and 2, and so miss out on the mighty baptism in the Holy Spirit - and it is the Holy Spirit that is the teacher. 

Next, there are many "voices" one can hear, but few learn the voice of our Lord. Some here a "voice" and it is their own spirit person, and they imagine it is God. Human spirits give goofy answers at times. So we have many theories on any given verse. Some theories come from just a lack of understanding, but others are just plain goofy.  Other hear a voice and it is a deceiving spirit, and NOT our Lord. So we get false doctrines. 

Paul understood the trinity, and knew that man was made in God's image and after His likeness. He knew and wrote that man is a three part being, a spirit being the inward man or the REAL man, the spirit possessing a soul (mind, will, emotions) and living for now in a flesh body. But all three parts make up ONE human being. Why then would ANYONE deny that our God is a three part being that is called a trinity? The question of the trinity was answered very early in church history, one of the earlier church conferences. (The Eleventh Synod of Toledo (in Spain) in A.D. 675 formally declared the Church' s position on the trinity.)

[Moby]

6 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

You remind me of a guy in my basic training unit years ago. It seems he always started out on the wrong foot when marching so was always out of step. In other words, start out wrong and you will end wrong. The truth of scripture is that the cosmic signs will be seen TWICE more, first as the sign of the Day of the Lord, as in the moon appearing blood red, and the sun appearing black. What CAUSES the moon to appear blood red, and what causes the sun to appear black? It is total eclipses. But for anyone to know if the moon was blood red, they would have to SEE it: these signs are visible, else no one would know. We can be sure God will have a sign that many can see and know. 

It just makes good sense, if there is a book with many chapters on the 70th week, and we wish to learn about the 70th week, we would go to the place with the most information. Daniel has a few verses about the 70th week, and the minor prophets have a few verses, but Revelation has chapters on it. God is a self-revealing God: If he did not reveal things, we would know nothing of Him. Over time, He reveals more and more. Again, it makes good sense that LATER passages give us a clearer picture than earlier passages. For example, if one wanted to study the soul, some go to Genesis and get one theory: the complete human is also called a soul. But if we study the Pauline Epistles, we find out the complete human is Spirit, soul, and body. We also find out that occasionally the bible uses "soul" as the complete human, but other times, not. 

“Why are there so many doctrinal differences if the Holy Spirit only ever teaches one truth on any given doctrine?”:  Its very simple: first, the majority of believers today SKIP OVER Acts chapter 1 and 2, and so miss out on the mighty baptism in the Holy Spirit - and it is the Holy Spirit that is the teacher. 

Next, there are many "voices" one can hear, but few learn the voice of our Lord. Some here a "voice" and it is their own spirit person, and they imagine it is God. Human spirits give goofy answers at times. So we have many theories on any given verse. Some theories come from just a lack of understanding, but others are just plain goofy.  Other hear a voice and it is a deceiving spirit, and NOT our Lord. So we get false doctrines. 

Paul understood the trinity, and knew that man was made in God's image and after His likeness. He knew and wrote that man is a three part being, a spirit being the inward man or the REAL man, the spirit possessing a soul (mind, will, emotions) and living for now in a flesh body. But all three parts make up ONE human being. Why then would ANYONE deny that our God is a three part being that is called a trinity? The question of the trinity was answered very early in church history, one of the earlier church conferences. (The Eleventh Synod of Toledo (in Spain) in A.D. 675 formally declared the Church' s position on the trinity.)

You can distinguish a false teacher from one who speaks truth by the simple fact that the one that teaches truth lets Father's Word do the talking while the he just brings the precepts together:

John 17:17  Sanctify them in the truth: thy word is truth.

 

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, Moby said:

You can distinguish a false teacher from one who speaks truth by the simple fact that the one that teaches truth lets Father's Word do the talking while the he just brings the precepts together:

John 17:17  Sanctify them in the truth: thy word is truth.

 

I am assuming, since you are here on a public forum teaching others, that you KNOW the scriptures and do not have to see them over and over.

Do you really have to SEE it to know it is truth? 

1 Tes. 5:23  And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The REAL way to distinguish a false teacher is to prove his teachings false by scripture rightly divided.  

Go ahead, try PROVING with scripture that God is not a trinity and see how far you get here. 

[Moby]

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I am assuming, since you are here on a public forum teaching others, that you KNOW the scriptures and do not have to see them over and over.

Do you really have to SEE it to know it is truth? 

1 Tes. 5:23  And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The REAL way to distinguish a false teacher is to prove his teachings false by scripture rightly divided.  

Go ahead, try PROVING with scripture that God is not a trinity and see how far you get here. 

You seem to be very intrigued by the link on Rob's website about the trinity. Did you bother to study that link to see what scriptures Rob used there to prove his thesis?:

Acts 17:11  Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of the mind, examining the Scriptures daily, whether these things were so.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Moby