Has anyone had to leave a worldly church?

[bornagain2011]

I have been going to the same church for ten years. Our church does awana and a few other youth things. Our youth pastor is pretty worldly and that concerns me greatly.

Tonight was very disheartening, I know a lot of people will disagree with me on this, and tonight at church I stood alone. There was an awana meeting, one of the topics discussed was "theme nights", I was happy to see Marvel superhero night was not an option this year, but I guess only because "parents complained ". 

So the theme I disagreed with was Dr Seuss night, which I guess is a holiday in america?? I was confused about why we would hav3 a Dr Seuss night for awana,  I got confused looks, and I was super nervous to even say anything... the youth pastor said "umm we do it every year" I said "yeah, but why?? Was he a christian?" he said "no, is it a sin to do Dr Seuss night?" I  said "no, not in and of itself, but I'm wondering what that has to do with the bible? Why not have a Billy Graham night? Or a bible heros night?" .

The only reason I was even brave enoughto speak up was because he kept pressuring me to, he was like "well something is on your mind" i kept saying "it doesn't matter."

He said "Dr Seuss night is fun, it's like halloween, kids get to dress up!" I was totally flabbergasted! I think my eyes got big and I had to bite my toungue and just let his comment hang in the air. 

No one backed me at all, even pastor and his wife were on his side. 

I knew I shouldn't have went today, I knew I wouldn't be able to keep my big mouth shut. I am so heartbroken as I see more and more worldliness creeping into our church.

This summer our church went to a youth summer camp where they had zombie night, kids dressed up like dead people with blood etc and creeped around outside at night.

I feel like I just fit in. It makes me so sad. I always think "what would the early churches do??" I was substance, I want something real and deep. So do my children. They don't want zombie night, mt dew chugging contests etc. They are hungry for a deeper connection with the Lord and real fellowship.

I would like to check out other churches, but I am the head of the decorating committee for our church's 75th anniversary party, which is the last weekend of this month, so I feel like I have the obligation to finish that and be there for my team. 

Our youth pastor and his wife make fun of people who don't approve of their methods, we are "Karens" or just not hip or cool. They want to be relevant, it's like they believe the gospel is not enough to draw people in, it needs to be worldly and cool. I'm so tired of feeling like I don't fit in, and that I'm on my own. 

We have so many friends in the church that are like family to us. This breaks my heart. 

I don't know what else to say. I went to my room and prayed and cried. Maybe my thoughts will be more clear after I sleep. 

I desire fellowship and connection, I want to talk about end times prophecy and go deep with people... not talk about the lastest fad or whatever.

[bornagain2011]

Sorry my post was so long and I ended it abruptly. I am just so discouraged. 

Thank you if you read all my rumblings. 

[LonerAndy]

1 hour ago, bornagain2011 said:

I have been going to the same church for ten years. Our church does awana and a few other youth things. Our youth pastor is pretty worldly and that concerns me greatly.

Tonight was very disheartening, I know a lot of people will disagree with me on this, and tonight at church I stood alone. There was an awana meeting, one of the topics discussed was "theme nights", I was happy to see Marvel superhero night was not an option this year, but I guess only because "parents complained ". 

So the theme I disagreed with was Dr Seuss night, which I guess is a holiday in america?? I was confused about why we would hav3 a Dr Seuss night for awana,  I got confused looks, and I was super nervous to even say anything... the youth pastor said "umm we do it every year" I said "yeah, but why?? Was he a christian?" he said "no, is it a sin to do Dr Seuss night?" I  said "no, not in and of itself, but I'm wondering what that has to do with the bible? Why not have a Billy Graham night? Or a bible heros night?" .

The only reason I was even brave enoughto speak up was because he kept pressuring me to, he was like "well something is on your mind" i kept saying "it doesn't matter."

He said "Dr Seuss night is fun, it's like halloween, kids get to dress up!" I was totally flabbergasted! I think my eyes got big and I had to bite my toungue and just let his comment hang in the air. 

No one backed me at all, even pastor and his wife were on his side. 

I knew I shouldn't have went today, I knew I wouldn't be able to keep my big mouth shut. I am so heartbroken as I see more and more worldliness creeping into our church.

This summer our church went to a youth summer camp where they had zombie night, kids dressed up like dead people with blood etc and creeped around outside at night.

I feel like I just fit in. It makes me so sad. I always think "what would the early churches do??" I was substance, I want something real and deep. So do my children. They don't want zombie night, mt dew chugging contests etc. They are hungry for a deeper connection with the Lord and real fellowship.

I would like to check out other churches, but I am the head of the decorating committee for our church's 75th anniversary party, which is the last weekend of this month, so I feel like I have the obligation to finish that and be there for my team. 

Our youth pastor and his wife make fun of people who don't approve of their methods, we are "Karens" or just not hip or cool. They want to be relevant, it's like they believe the gospel is not enough to draw people in, it needs to be worldly and cool. I'm so tired of feeling like I don't fit in, and that I'm on my own. 

We have so many friends in the church that are like family to us. This breaks my heart. 

I don't know what else to say. I went to my room and prayed and cried. Maybe my thoughts will be more clear after I sleep. 

I desire fellowship and connection, I want to talk about end times prophecy and go deep with people... not talk about the lastest fad or whatever.

So a couple of things I would suggest.

1.  "I wouldn't be able to keep my big mouth shut".  I have this problem.  Praise G-d, I am better at it today, than in the past.   Every person though, needs to master the art of keeping their big mouth shut.   There is a time, and a place, for voicing concerns, and they are few fewer and rarer than when you should keep to yourself.

2.  "I am the head of the decorating committee for our church's 75th anniversary party.... ....so I feel like I have the obligation to finish that and be there for my team" Yes, that goes without question.   You made a vow to do something, so be a man of your word.  I have done this as well.

I was in a group that I decided to leave.... but before that I had agreed to help out in a little project.   So while I didn't meet with this group for a month, on the day of the outdoor project, I showed up and helped out.    You do what you say you are going to do.  Your word should have value.

3.  Don't ask "what would the early churches do?"   I did this myself, but no more.  First, it isn't a good argument for anything.  Second....

Did you read the letter by Paul to the early churches?  The early church had sons that were sleeping with their father's wives.  They had gossip and dissension, they were attacking the apostles, and calling them fake.  False prophets, heresy, and the list goes on.  Some churches were involved in religious prostitution. Whores for Jesus.

What would the early churches do?   A ton worse than dressing up their kids in a Cat-in-a-Hat costumes.

The early church was a train wreck.   That's why we look to the early church on guidance on what NOT to do.

So let me get to the heart of the matter:

Are they teaching Jesus Christ Crucified?  Are they teaching repentance, and sin?  Are they teaching Jesus raised from the dead?   Are they teaching how to live a Christian life?

Now if you are telling me, they are teaching none of that, but they are doing theme nights... ok, now I see your point.   But if they are teaching all the important aspects of Christianity, and why we have faith in a savior who forgives our evil, and calls us to repent....

I guess I'm less worried about it than you.  Ecclesiastes 7:16 says "Do not be over righteous, neither be over wise-- why destroy yourself?".

You need to balance a bit.  I left a church that was a bit like what you seem to want.   I should not say that *I* left the church, because everyone did.  The church barely has 50 people left in it.   All the kids, stopped going to that church, because you couldn't do anything.   They didn't have any outreach at all, because they didn't want to be worldly.

You can't get kids interested in dressing up as Billy Graham, because none of those kids know or care who Billy Graham is.  But they do know children's books, but that's worldly... so nothing for kids.

Not a single kid I grew up with in my parents church... not one... not even ONE... still goes to that church.  In fact, the children of the pastor of that church, do not go to that church.   It's a dying church, with a bunch of old people, stuck in their old ways.  But it's not worldly... I'll give you that.  Nor is it effective at spreading the gospel.
 

So... I don't know what all is going on in your church.  I have no idea.  Maybe it really has become an entirely worldly church.  That is possible.  I can only go by what little you have said here.   So  I don't know.  I need to stress that I'm going on very limited information.

So obviously you need to act wisely for you and your family, but... just based on what you said, I don't think I'd be moving to another church over Dr Sues theme night.  Just my take.

Edited September 2, 2020 by LonerAndy

[bornagain2011]

Thank you for your response LonerAndy, it givesme much to think about.

When I say I think about what the early churches would do, I think about what a good early church would tolerate and not tolerate. Would they tolerate "zombie night" etc if Paul was there? 

Also, I am NOT against fun at all. There were plenty of theme nights that were good, like crazy hair night etc. Also, there are lots of fun stuff to do for youth activities that don't blend secularism into it, like smores night, or glow stick tag, or just taking the kids bowling or out to the lake boating etc. 

I have been going to the church for 10 years, so it is much more than just these recent things, it's also the youth pastors attitude towards female youth and how he us too casual with them, one female (along with a teen boy) spent the night at his house...while his wife was out of town. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but I thought that was inappropriate. 

Our Pastor lets him and his wife do basically whatever, and if anyone has complaints he sides with them. Our church teaches Christ crucified, and the Gospel, but it is also a loveless and compromising church.

If I were to switch churches I would want to go to one where I felt convicted and closer to God, our church doesn't go deep at all, and it's because pastor gears it towards unbelievers.

Also the church I would want to go to would have lots of different ministries, like serving the community, a homeless ministry, a ministry for serving theorphans and widows, an evangelizing minsitry, and a mentoring and discipleship ministry...we literally have NONE of those. We stay in our bubble. I guess as individuals we can branch out and serve, which I have. But still.

Also, a good youth program should be less immaturity and more discipleship making. They should be digging deep in the Lord, they should be there because they have the strong desire and hunger for the Word of God, not because "it's mt dew night", there should be fun, but the fun should be appropriate. The men can teach the younger men how to build a shed, or work on a car, or serve others in some way. These teen boys are beibg taughtto stay immature and childish and it shows in their continued sinful living and the fruit they produce.

The women could teach the girls how to sew or bake, I suggested a sewing class, the ladies were excited about that. 

Our church used to do fun things like go to a park for a picnic after church. My husband always tells me about the church he grew up in, they were like family, they went to each other's houses and bbq, or went boating. They had deep and meaningful relationships that have lasted all these years. They were there for each other.

Families keep leaving our church, and teens grow up and never come back. One teen got saved at winter camp, and stopped coming around, he told me that the irony was he got saved and then saw how worldly our church was and he couldn't grow in this youth group, so he left to find something deeper. He is at word of life bible college now.

I don't really regret saying what I said, I was not belligerent or disrespectful, it was a casual meeting where we sat at a small table and much sharing was going on. I had prayed beforehand that God would only allow me to speak what He wills. I felt I needed to say something, especially since the youth pastor told me to share my heart. Perhaps, dr suess night isn't massively sinful, but i don't think its entirely appropriate. The youth pastor joked about wanting to do covid night. He jokes about covid all the time which I personally think lacks good taste since people are dying from it.

My husband said the awana that he grew up with didn't have worldly theme nights, it was more along the lines of silly hat day, or twin night etc. His church wouldn't have tolerated that either, but his church was still fun! 

Thank you for taking the time to read ny comments.

Edited September 2, 2020 by bornagain2011

[Dennis1209]

It sounds like the Holy Spirit is talking and making you aware of these non-biblical activities. You are so correct; the world and Satan has entered many of our churches. Attendance: Draw as many people in as possible by any means, that also increases the financial coffers. The prosperity Gospel and the tickling of ears has entered many churches in these last days.

2 Timothy 4:3 (KJV) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; [that time will come is here]

Revelation 18:4 (KJV) And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

P.S. One of the churches I attended after I checked them out the best I could; their mission statement of faith and church covenant totally agreed with mine. Upon attending, they had guitars, drums, symbols, etc. that they used in worship service. I'm not implying anything is wrong with that but, I'm old and brought up with the traditional hymnals and Psalm's type of lyrics and devotions. Then again...

Psalm 98:4 (KJV) Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all the earth: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Dennis1209

[Dennis1209]

6 minutes ago, DDisconnect said:

I'm not sure what to say on the matter of your church, but I will weigh in on one thing.

You wish to uphold your commitment for the anniversary party and that is good. So now it's a matter of trying to find churches. If you aren't aware of all the churches in your area, go to Google and type in "(city of residence), (state of residence) churches" or whatever the case is for whatever country you're from. Me personally, I made a written list so that I could put a rating and make small shorthand notes as I went through each one. You will see a list of churches on Google. Click on one and you'll see 4 circles from left to right - Call, Directions, Save, Website. You can click on Website and it should take you to that church's website. Each site is different, of course, but you can generally read a mission statement and watch previously livestreamed worship services. You can find info like who the staff is and what activities they do. Then if you have any questions, you can hit the back button to get back to Google and you've got that far left Call circle. When I did this, I made a rating system that accounted for what things they say vs what things they don't, the general attitude, wording, and presentation of the site, whether the church had a big focus on any one thing that seemed offputting (the site mainly talks about the pastor rather than Christ, they seem a little too financially-minded, etc), whether the previously aired livestreams showed what seems to be spirit-led worship, and so on. This left me with a list with some high ratings, a few mediums, and some low ratings. So I started watching live sermons at the churches I rated highly first and that's how I've come across the church I'm currently planning on attending.

That was a whole bunch of typing, I apologize, but this way you can kind of try to gauge the other local churches in the meantime whilst you uphold your anniversary commitment. Might save some time and trouble when it comes to shopping around as well.

Good response! I basically did the same thing trying to find a Gospel preaching church in my area when I moved here. The only thing I would add that I did from my list, was to attend a service and see if what I read and researched fit and was practiced in the church. Is the church warm, welcoming and friendly?

[Who me]

12 hours ago, bornagain2011 said:

Our youth pastor and his wife make fun of people who don't approve of their methods, we are "Karens" or just not hip or cool

May I make a couple of comments.

First talk over the quote above with your husband and compare it to how the Bible teaches us to respect one another.

Investigate the coldcasechristianity training method for young Christians and check out opertunities for Christian service in your town.

The book, already gone from answersingenesis is another resource for you to read.

 

Then I would suggest you arrange an appointment with the youth pastor and challenge him with dates, phone recordings etc of when he has belittled you or others for not agreeing with him.

Take him to task on his behaviour and expect him to change. Breathed he will fight this tooth and nail, so keep professional, calm and polite even if he isn't and be prepared to record angry outbursts.

 

Raise the issue of 'training' as aliased to teaching and link that to practice service in the church and town.

( Do the senior youth have opertunity to serve helping the junior youth or with a junior music group that actually plays in family services etc )

Relevance, well has he taught on racism, abortion, social justice. When was the last time there was a Bible verse memorising contest?

 

Go with your ideas, but go with them written out so when you are asked to leave, because he doesn't want to hear any more, you can graciously leave but also leave them a hard copy of your points and also drop a copy off at the ministers with a covering note.

 

This is stirring the pot big time and you can expect tantrums. Stand firm by the point that young Christians need a firm foundation of biblical truths to build there lives upon.

 

Do end your suggested programme with the promise to pray for them.

[Billiards Ball]

15 hours ago, bornagain2011 said:

I have been going to the same church for ten years. Our church does awana and a few other youth things. Our youth pastor is pretty worldly and that concerns me greatly.

Tonight was very disheartening, I know a lot of people will disagree with me on this, and tonight at church I stood alone. There was an awana meeting, one of the topics discussed was "theme nights", I was happy to see Marvel superhero night was not an option this year, but I guess only because "parents complained ". 

So the theme I disagreed with was Dr Seuss night, which I guess is a holiday in america?? I was confused about why we would hav3 a Dr Seuss night for awana,  I got confused looks, and I was super nervous to even say anything... the youth pastor said "umm we do it every year" I said "yeah, but why?? Was he a christian?" he said "no, is it a sin to do Dr Seuss night?" I  said "no, not in and of itself, but I'm wondering what that has to do with the bible? Why not have a Billy Graham night? Or a bible heros night?" .

The only reason I was even brave enoughto speak up was because he kept pressuring me to, he was like "well something is on your mind" i kept saying "it doesn't matter."

He said "Dr Seuss night is fun, it's like halloween, kids get to dress up!" I was totally flabbergasted! I think my eyes got big and I had to bite my toungue and just let his comment hang in the air. 

No one backed me at all, even pastor and his wife were on his side. 

I knew I shouldn't have went today, I knew I wouldn't be able to keep my big mouth shut. I am so heartbroken as I see more and more worldliness creeping into our church.

This summer our church went to a youth summer camp where they had zombie night, kids dressed up like dead people with blood etc and creeped around outside at night.

I feel like I just fit in. It makes me so sad. I always think "what would the early churches do??" I was substance, I want something real and deep. So do my children. They don't want zombie night, mt dew chugging contests etc. They are hungry for a deeper connection with the Lord and real fellowship.

I would like to check out other churches, but I am the head of the decorating committee for our church's 75th anniversary party, which is the last weekend of this month, so I feel like I have the obligation to finish that and be there for my team. 

Our youth pastor and his wife make fun of people who don't approve of their methods, we are "Karens" or just not hip or cool. They want to be relevant, it's like they believe the gospel is not enough to draw people in, it needs to be worldly and cool. I'm so tired of feeling like I don't fit in, and that I'm on my own. 

We have so many friends in the church that are like family to us. This breaks my heart. 

I don't know what else to say. I went to my room and prayed and cried. Maybe my thoughts will be more clear after I sleep. 

I desire fellowship and connection, I want to talk about end times prophecy and go deep with people... not talk about the lastest fad or whatever.

Then join a local church where prophecy and deep relationships are pursued, but don't condemn a church for having fun, please.

[David1701]

16 hours ago, bornagain2011 said:

I have been going to the same church for ten years. Our church does awana and a few other youth things. Our youth pastor is pretty worldly and that concerns me greatly.

Tonight was very disheartening, I know a lot of people will disagree with me on this, and tonight at church I stood alone. There was an awana meeting, one of the topics discussed was "theme nights", I was happy to see Marvel superhero night was not an option this year, but I guess only because "parents complained ". 

So the theme I disagreed with was Dr Seuss night, which I guess is a holiday in america?? I was confused about why we would hav3 a Dr Seuss night for awana,  I got confused looks, and I was super nervous to even say anything... the youth pastor said "umm we do it every year" I said "yeah, but why?? Was he a christian?" he said "no, is it a sin to do Dr Seuss night?" I  said "no, not in and of itself, but I'm wondering what that has to do with the bible? Why not have a Billy Graham night? Or a bible heros night?" .

The only reason I was even brave enoughto speak up was because he kept pressuring me to, he was like "well something is on your mind" i kept saying "it doesn't matter."

He said "Dr Seuss night is fun, it's like halloween, kids get to dress up!" I was totally flabbergasted! I think my eyes got big and I had to bite my toungue and just let his comment hang in the air. 

No one backed me at all, even pastor and his wife were on his side. 

I knew I shouldn't have went today, I knew I wouldn't be able to keep my big mouth shut. I am so heartbroken as I see more and more worldliness creeping into our church.

This summer our church went to a youth summer camp where they had zombie night, kids dressed up like dead people with blood etc and creeped around outside at night.

I feel like I just fit in. It makes me so sad. I always think "what would the early churches do??" I was substance, I want something real and deep. So do my children. They don't want zombie night, mt dew chugging contests etc. They are hungry for a deeper connection with the Lord and real fellowship.

I would like to check out other churches, but I am the head of the decorating committee for our church's 75th anniversary party, which is the last weekend of this month, so I feel like I have the obligation to finish that and be there for my team. 

Our youth pastor and his wife make fun of people who don't approve of their methods, we are "Karens" or just not hip or cool. They want to be relevant, it's like they believe the gospel is not enough to draw people in, it needs to be worldly and cool. I'm so tired of feeling like I don't fit in, and that I'm on my own. 

We have so many friends in the church that are like family to us. This breaks my heart. 

I don't know what else to say. I went to my room and prayed and cried. Maybe my thoughts will be more clear after I sleep. 

I desire fellowship and connection, I want to talk about end times prophecy and go deep with people... not talk about the lastest fad or whatever.

Ask the Lord what HE wants you to do.  This is much more important than fitting in, or not.  He might want you there as a witness for truth and righteousness (if so, you will have to intercede in prayer, for the leaders and the congregation as a whole), or he might want you to leave, also as a witness for Him (it's all about Jesus, not about us).  Lay the matter before the Lord in prayer, and keep on praying, until you are sure of what God wants you to do.

[johnthebaptist]

16 hours ago, bornagain2011 said:

I have been going to the same church for ten years. Our church does awana and a few other youth things. Our youth pastor is pretty worldly and that concerns me greatly.

Tonight was very disheartening, I know a lot of people will disagree with me on this, and tonight at church I stood alone. There was an awana meeting, one of the topics discussed was "theme nights", I was happy to see Marvel superhero night was not an option this year, but I guess only because "parents complained ". 

So the theme I disagreed with was Dr Seuss night, which I guess is a holiday in america?? I was confused about why we would hav3 a Dr Seuss night for awana,  I got confused looks, and I was super nervous to even say anything... the youth pastor said "umm we do it every year" I said "yeah, but why?? Was he a christian?" he said "no, is it a sin to do Dr Seuss night?" I  said "no, not in and of itself, but I'm wondering what that has to do with the bible? Why not have a Billy Graham night? Or a bible heros night?" .

The only reason I was even brave enoughto speak up was because he kept pressuring me to, he was like "well something is on your mind" i kept saying "it doesn't matter."

He said "Dr Seuss night is fun, it's like halloween, kids get to dress up!" I was totally flabbergasted! I think my eyes got big and I had to bite my toungue and just let his comment hang in the air. 

No one backed me at all, even pastor and his wife were on his side. 

I knew I shouldn't have went today, I knew I wouldn't be able to keep my big mouth shut. I am so heartbroken as I see more and more worldliness creeping into our church.

This summer our church went to a youth summer camp where they had zombie night, kids dressed up like dead people with blood etc and creeped around outside at night.

I feel like I just fit in. It makes me so sad. I always think "what would the early churches do??" I was substance, I want something real and deep. So do my children. They don't want zombie night, mt dew chugging contests etc. They are hungry for a deeper connection with the Lord and real fellowship.

I would like to check out other churches, but I am the head of the decorating committee for our church's 75th anniversary party, which is the last weekend of this month, so I feel like I have the obligation to finish that and be there for my team. 

Our youth pastor and his wife make fun of people who don't approve of their methods, we are "Karens" or just not hip or cool. They want to be relevant, it's like they believe the gospel is not enough to draw people in, it needs to be worldly and cool. I'm so tired of feeling like I don't fit in, and that I'm on my own. 

We have so many friends in the church that are like family to us. This breaks my heart. 

I don't know what else to say. I went to my room and prayed and cried. Maybe my thoughts will be more clear after I sleep. 

I desire fellowship and connection, I want to talk about end times prophecy and go deep with people... not talk about the lastest fad or whatever.

Sometimes you might have to decide if you want to leave an imperfect church, or attempt to change it.