Let's talk about the faith of Jesus Christ

[David1701]

10 hours ago, Peterlag said:

I think God called everyone and only certain people answered the call.

That is not what the Bible says.

1 Cor. 1:22-31 (WEB)

22 For Jews ask for signs, Greeks seek after wisdom,
23 but we preach Christ crucified; a stumbling block to Jews, and foolishness to Greeks,
24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For you see your calling, brothers, that not many are wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, and not many noble;
27 but God chose the foolish things of the world that he might put to shame those who are wise. God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put to shame the things that are strong;
28 and God chose the lowly things of the world, and the things that are despised, and the things that are not, that he might bring to nothing the things that are:
29 that no flesh should boast before God.
30 But of him, you are in Christ Jesus, who was made to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption:
31 that, according as it is written, “He who boasts, let him boast in the Lord.”

The preaching of the cross goes out to Jews and Gentiles; but, it is only those whom God calls, from among those who hear the gospel, to whom Christ is the power of God and wisdom of God.  In other words, many hear the gospel, but only some of those are ones whom God has called.

This prevents man from having a reason to boast.  He cannot rightly say that he responded well, because of his so-called "free will"; whereas those who did not respond well did not use their "free will", when God has made it plain that is is HE who makes the difference, by effectually calling to Christ whom He will.

[David1701]

10 hours ago, Peterlag said:

I don't know how to respond to 21 different verses at the same time. But I will if you can give them to me one at a time.

Umm ... why don't you copy and paste one at a time, if that is what you want to do?

[Alive]

The implications and mechanics that follow the following thought are difficult for us limited humans to grasp, but I think it is helpful in such a discussion:

Does God the Creator of all things stand outside of the concept of 'time' that He created? Time, as we have begun to understand it, is integral to the very fabric of this universe that He Himself holds together by the Word of His power.

Is God independent of time?

[JohnD]

18 hours ago, Peterlag said:

No.

Why?

[David1701]

14 minutes ago, Alive said:

The implications and mechanics that follow the following thought are difficult for us limited humans to grasp, but I think it is helpful in such a discussion:

Does God the Creator of all things stand outside of the concept of 'time' that He created? Time, as we have begun to understand it, is integral to the very fabric of this universe that He Himself holds together by the Word of His power.

Is God independent of time?

Is God independent of time?  Yes, certainly, otherwise his aseity would be undermined.

Does God act within and upon the sphere of time?  Yes, also certainly.

In a sense, God has already finished all his works; but we experience them in linear order, because we are limited to time.  I like to view it like a kind of snow globe, in which all events are contained.  God is outside the globe and can see everything at once, but he can, and does, also maintain and direct the events in the globe, as well as entering it.

[Alive]

1 minute ago, David1701 said:

Is God independent of time?  Yes, certainly, otherwise his aseity would be undermined.

Does God act within and upon the sphere of time?  Yes, also certainly.

In a sense, God has already finished all his works; but we experience them in linear order, because we are limited to time.  I like to view it like a kind of snow globe, in which all events are contained.  God is outside the globe and can see everything at once, but he can, and does, also maintain and direct the events in the globe, as well as entering it.

This is also how I view this--only as a timeline that God looks down upon seeing each point as clearly as another.

The most interesting variable is 'choice' and how it intersects with His Will and Determination. This is what I mean when I mentioned the nexus of non-robots and His sovereignty.

I believe that an important thing to our God is that we take part in His determination as agents.

I am able to hold these things in my hand and roll them around, but I am unable to fully comprehend them. This is a good thing--to me--because it inspires awe!

[David1701]

Just now, Alive said:

This is also how I view this--only as a timeline that God looks down upon seeing each point as clearly as another.

The most interesting variable is 'choice' and how it intersects with His Will and Determination. This is what I mean when I mentioned the nexus of non-robots and His sovereignty.

I believe that an important thing to our God is that we take part in His determination as agents.

I am able to hold these things in my hand and roll them around, but I am unable to fully comprehend them. This is a good thing--to me--because it inspires awe!

Robots do not have a will.  We have a will, so we are not robots.

The Bible says that the unbeliever's will is enslaved to sin (it's a willing slavery); also that he hates the light and will not come to it; and that he does not receive the things of the Spirit of God; and that he is hostile towards God; and that he cannot please God.  This means that God must do something about that condition, or no-one will believe the gospel and be saved.

This is why Jesus told Nicodemus that we must be born again, in order to see and enter the kingdom of God.  We enter the kingdom of God by faith in Jesus Christ; so, we must be born again, in order to have faith in Jesus Christ. This also agrees with 1 John 5:1.

1 John 5:1 (ESV) Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.

"Believes" is present tense; whereas, "has been born of God" is perfect tense (happened in the past, with the result continuing in the present).  If we go back to the moment when we first believed, then we had been born again (i.e. before that), at that point.

Since believing flows from the new nature, being born again immediately precedes believing in Jesus Christ, so that God sovereignly saves whom he will, and we repent and believe willingly (from the new nature).

[Alive]

1 minute ago, David1701 said:

Robots do not have a will.  We have a will, so we are not robots.

The Bible says that the unbeliever's will is enslaved to sin (it's a willing slavery); also that he hates the light and will not come to it; and that he does not receive the things of the Spirit of God; and that he is hostile towards God; and that he cannot please God.  This means that God must do something about that condition, or no-one will believe the gospel and be saved.

This is why Jesus told Nicodemus that we must be born again, in order to see and enter the kingdom of God.  We enter the kingdom of God by faith in Jesus Christ; so, we must be born again, in order to have faith in Jesus Christ. This also agrees with 1 John 5:1.

1 John 5:1 (ESV) Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.

"Believes" is present tense; whereas, "has been born of God" is perfect tense (happened in the past, with the result continuing in the present).  If we go back to the moment when we first believed, then we had been born again (i.e. before that), at that point.

Since believing flows from the new nature, being born again immediately precedes believing in Jesus Christ, so that God sovereignly saves whom he will, and we repent and believe willingly (from the new nature).

:-)

Yup--I mentioned non-robots.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

I look at the context of the verse. I think the word "may" was used differently in the older english.

Example: "....Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." ( Jn 17:11)

Well, of course all who were given to Jesus will be one with Him and the Father. 

MAY is not a guarantee.

[Peterlag]

5 hours ago, David1701 said:

Umm ... why don't you copy and paste one at a time, if that is what you want to do?

Because I have other posts on different sites with folks asking me questions and I don't have a staff to help me with one person who asks 21 questions at a time.