The seven angels trumpet soundings in Revelation 8, 9, & 11

[iamlamad]

On 9/12/2020 at 9:18 AM, luigi said:

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Humans don't rise out of the bottomless pit: the devil can, or evil spirits can. This verse is telling us of the demonic POWER behind the Beast: without a doubt, Satan Himself. He is, was, and always has been a destroyer. 

[iamlamad]

On 9/12/2020 at 9:14 AM, luigi said:

If you understand the purpose of angels as being that in which they illumine mankind, either with truth from God, or deceit from Satan; the hour, day, month, and year in which they are loosed is understood the amount of time in which they influence the world's leaders to utilize their combined armed forces and initiate genocide. And when you look at the fact that 1/3 of the earth's environmental resources will have been destroyed previously, it is then easy to put one and one together and see what the influence Satan's four deceiving angels illumine the world's leaders with, to make remaining resources, especially food suffice for the 2/3 of the world's populace that remain.

Sorry, but taking this as an "amount" of time simply does not fit with the context of the book of Revelation. Six trumpet judgments must fit into 1260 days. We are given the time of one of them: 5 months. 

[iamlamad]

On 9/12/2020 at 8:23 AM, luigi said:

Iamlamad, The beast who comes up from the bottomless pit is another description of the beast's ascension from the sea. The man of sin is due to the beasts system, and as such the events in Revelation 9 include those of the rampant sin that will take place under the beast's system.

No, sorry, but you are mistaken. The beast from the sea is the MAN of the Antichrist: the MAN of sin turned Beast. The beast of chapter 17 is the spirit behind the man and the spirit behind his kingdom. 

You are rearranging Revelation, and without a doubt (because of rearranging) your theory will be proven wrong. 

[luigi]

26 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Humans don't rise out of the bottomless pit: the devil can, or evil spirits can. This verse is telling us of the demonic POWER behind the Beast: without a doubt, Satan Himself. He is, was, and always has been a destroyer. 

The fallen star Absalon/Apollyon, whose name means the destroyer, is given the key to the bottomless pit, and he opens it. The "key" is a metaphor to the illumination the destroyer will be given in order to unlock the power from the bottomless pit/the sea, that will cause the beast's ascension. As the whole world who are not written in the lambs book of life will love the dragon and the beast, and the beast's mouth for the power the dragon will have given the beast; it it then a logical assessment that this power that will cause the beast's ascension will be seen by the world as being environmentally benign in comparison to the environmental damage where 1/3 of the planets resources will have been destroyed by fossil fuels and affiliated means prior to the opening of the bottomless pit.  

[luigi]

33 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but taking this as an "amount" of time simply does not fit with the context of the book of Revelation. Six trumpet judgments must fit into 1260 days. We are given the time of one of them: 5 months. 

They are seven trumpet soundings (warnings), not six.  Where you come up with the first six sounding warnings fitting into 1260 days is wrong, as the events in Revelation 11 in which the two witnesses are testifying and which also constitute the beast's 42 months in power, occur during the events under the fifth and sixth angels sounding warnings, at the conclusion of which, the seventh angel sounds. The first four sounding warnings which precede the opening of the bottomless pit from which the beast shall ascend, therefore precede the beast's 42 months in power. These first four angels sounding warnings in Revelation 8, thereby correlate with the first four seals in Revelation 6.

[luigi]

51 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

No, sorry, but you are mistaken. The beast from the sea is the MAN of the Antichrist: the MAN of sin turned Beast. The beast of chapter 17 is the spirit behind the man and the spirit behind his kingdom. 

You are rearranging Revelation, and without a doubt (because of rearranging) your theory will be proven wrong. 

The beast of seven heads and ten horns represent many peoples, as the seven heads represent seven kings who head seven mountains (large nations).

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, luigi said:

The beast of seven heads and ten horns represent many peoples, as the seven heads represent seven kings who head seven mountains (large nations).

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

I agree, mountains are nations or empires and each has a king. Five empires (and associated kings) had passed by in John's time. One empire was in John's time: Rome, and one was to come, but only for a short time: probably 3.5 years.

However, you and I both know, "many people" are not going to rise from the dead and escape from the bottomless pit! (But the devil could.) The many people are those that believe the great lie (that the Beast man is God) and take the mark.  The woman is seen riding the beast (the many nations and peoples) because she is DECEIVING them. The woman is the MYSTERY city of Jerusalem that deceives the entire world. 

 

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, luigi said:

The fallen star Absalon/Apollyon, whose name means the destroyer, is given the key to the bottomless pit, and he opens it. The "key" is a metaphor to the illumination the destroyer will be given in order to unlock the power from the bottomless pit/the sea, that will cause the beast's ascension. As the whole world who are not written in the lambs book of life will love the dragon and the beast, and the beast's mouth for the power the dragon will have given the beast; it it then a logical assessment that this power that will cause the beast's ascension will be seen by the world as being environmentally benign in comparison to the environmental damage where 1/3 of the planets resources will have been destroyed by fossil fuels and affiliated means prior to the opening of the bottomless pit.  

Satan is the Destroyer. I don't believe in your "key." It is imagination; reading into a text what is not there. The idea given is that the bottomless pit is LOCKED right now to keep those stinging beasties there until the proper time. Sorry, NO metaphor. The bottomless pit is locked. What ever evil spirit is the Destroyer that leads the hoard of stinging locusts, (I think the devil Himself) is is released at the 5th trumpet. He may well be the spirit that possesses the man of sin and turns him into the Beast of Revelation 13. Again I think it is Satan Himself. The beast is not seen to arise until chapter 13, right after he is REVEALED to the world when he declares he is GOD. 

Forget "enviromental damage!" You cannot find that in Revelation - EXCEPT the damage GOD DOES when He destroys things! 

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, luigi said:

They are seven trumpet soundings (warnings), not six.  Where you come up with the first six sounding warnings fitting into 1260 days is wrong, as the events in Revelation 11 in which the two witnesses are testifying and which also constitute the beast's 42 months in power, occur during the events under the fifth and sixth angels sounding warnings, at the conclusion of which, the seventh angel sounds. The first four sounding warnings which precede the opening of the bottomless pit from which the beast shall ascend, therefore precede the beast's 42 months in power. These first four angels sounding warnings in Revelation 8, thereby correlate with the first four seals in Revelation 6.

Where you come up with the first six sounding warnings fitting into 1260 days is wrong  No it is not wrong. You just don't understand why. The 7th sounds at the exact midpoint of the week, so does not take up "time" in the first half of the week.  It marks the division point. The first 1260 days will be divided up with 6 (SIX) trumpet judgments.   (You seem to think I am lost here. The truth is, you don't understand much of what I write.)

in which the two witnesses are testifying and which also constitute the beast's 42 months in power  This is good! You understand that all five of these countdowns from the midpoint to the end run at the same time. While the Beast us "beasting" the woman is fleeing, the Two witnesses are testifying and the city is being trampled - all happening at the same time (once all five countdowns have started. They have a staggered start.) Some people imagine - in error - that the two witnesses testify in the first half: they are mistaken.

the events in Revelation 11 in which the two witnesses are testifying and which also constitute the beast's 42 months in power, occur during the events under the fifth and sixth angels sounding warnings  Taken as a whole, this is MYTH. Why? The two witnesses will not BEGIN to testify until just 3 1/2 days before the 7th trumpet. The 6th trumpet - second woe - will be finished before they begin to testify. Please note: as you read down chapter 9, TIME Passes.  The 5th trumpet will consume 5 months of the first 42. We don't know how much time the other 5 trumpets take. (The 7th marks the midpoint so will not take up time as the first six will.) If each of the first 6 trumpets lasted 5 months, and God allowed a two month reprieve to allow people to repent, then each would take up 7 months: and six times 7 equals 42. I AM NOT SAYING this is the way it will happen. It is one possibility. The trumpets are not "warnings," they are judgments. I suspect it will only be seconds from a trumpet sounding until the event there begins to happen. 

The first four sounding warnings which precede the opening of the bottomless pit from which the beast shall ascend, therefore precede the beast's 42 months in power. Yes the first four trumpets precede the 42 months of authority - but so to all 7 trumpets! The truth is, the first SIX trumpets precede the man of sin being revealed. The first 4 trumpets sound, stuff happens, then the 5th angel sounds and then the bottomless pit is opened, EXACTLY in the order written. There is no need to rearrange. It will only lead to error. You can take this to the bank: the 42 months of authority still a short but unknown time after the midpoint of the week. (Perhaps 30 days?)

These first four angels sounding warnings in Revelation 8, thereby correlate with the first four seals in Revelation 6.  Complete MYTH. Human imagination. 

The seals are all opened and forgotten before the first trumpet sounds. ANY theory that must rearrange Revelation's God given chronology to fit - is error. Learn this axiom.  When all the seals are opened, then the BOOK gets opened, and the first thing written inside the book is to give seven trumpets to seven angels. So your theory is impossible.

Edited September 14, 2020 by iamlamad

[luigi]

56 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Where you come up with the first six sounding warnings fitting into 1260 days is wrong  No it is not wrong. You just don't understand why. The 7th sounds at the exact midpoint of the week, so does not take up "time" in the first half of the week.  It marks the division point. The first 1260 days will be divided up with 6 (SIX) trumpet judgments.   (You seem to think I am lost here. The truth is, you don't understand much of what I write.)

in which the two witnesses are testifying and which also constitute the beast's 42 months in power  This is good! You understand that all five of these countdowns from the midpoint to the end run at the same time. While the Beast us "beasting" the woman is fleeing, the Two witnesses are testifying and the city is being trampled - all happening at the same time (once all five countdowns have started. They have a staggered start.) Some people imagine - in error - that the two witnesses testify in the first half: they are mistaken.

the events in Revelation 11 in which the two witnesses are testifying and which also constitute the beast's 42 months in power, occur during the events under the fifth and sixth angels sounding warnings  Taken as a whole, this is MYTH. Why? The two witnesses will not BEGIN to testify until just 3 1/2 days before the 7th trumpet. The 6th trumpet - second woe - will be finished before they begin to testify. Please note: as you read down chapter 9, TIME Passes.  The 5th trumpet will consume 5 months of the first 42. We don't know how much time the other 5 trumpets take. (The 7th marks the midpoint so will not take up time as the first six will.) If each of the first 6 trumpets lasted 5 months, and God allowed a two month reprieve to allow people to repent, then each would take up 7 months: and six times 7 equals 42. I AM NOT SAYING this is the way it will happen. It is one possibility. The trumpets are not "warnings," they are judgments. I suspect it will only be seconds from a trumpet sounding until the event there begins to happen. 

The first four sounding warnings which precede the opening of the bottomless pit from which the beast shall ascend, therefore precede the beast's 42 months in power. Yes the first four trumpets precede the 42 months of authority - but so to all 7 trumpets! The truth is, the first SIX trumpets precede the man of sin being revealed. The first 4 trumpets sound, stuff happens, then the 5th angel sounds and then the bottomless pit is opened, EXACTLY in the order written. There is no need to rearrange. It will only lead to error. You can take this to the bank: the 42 months of authority still a short but unknown time after the midpoint of the week. (Perhaps 30 days?)

 

I'm going to put this as simple as I can. The beast ascends from the bottomless pit which is during the 5th  angels sounding warning of woe. Prior to the opening of the bottomless pit, when the first four sounding warnings occur, the beast has yet to ascend. As such, the 1,260 days of the beast have not commenced until the fifth angels sounding. Trumpet soundings of woe, 5 and 6, the beast is up, which is then during the beasts 42 months of authority.

Edited September 14, 2020 by luigi