Great Tribulation

[JohnR7]

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be". (Matthew 24:21) We also see this in Ezekiel 5:9, Daniel 12:1 & Joel 2:2 who tells us "such as never was of old, nor will ever be in ages to come".

The Great Tribulation that Jesus is talking about took place in 70 AD when the temple was tore down. We are told that not one stone will remain upon another. The Church age actually began in 29 AD on the day of Pentecost when Peter was preaching in the upper room. It was 40 years later that the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed. 

We know the church age is coming to an end. I just wonder how the Great Tribulation of 70 AD relates to us today?  There is just not that much in the way of scripture talking about a Great Trib. I know lots of pastors preach lots of stuff but I want scripture and I want to know what the Bible says. 

[Last Daze]

3 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

The Church age actually began in 29 AD on the day of Pentecost when Peter was preaching in the upper room.

An argument could be made that the church age began when God called out Abram.  The bride of Christ is made up of both old covenant an new covenant believers.  Dispensationalism has really skewed people's theology.  The new covenant may have begun in the first century but the "church age" is much older than that.

3 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

The Great Tribulation that Jesus is talking about took place in 70 AD when the temple was tore down.

You think that was worse than the flood before or the two world wars after?  The great tribulation that Jesus and Daniel refer to is still future.  Daniel gives us a duration of 3.5 years and ties it to the abomination of desolation in Daniel 12.

[JohnR7]

16 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

An argument could be made that the church age began when God called out Abram. 

They say the oral tradition goes back to Abraham. Even the gentiles are adopted into the family of Abraham. So there is a connection between us and Abraham. 

 

19 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

The bride of Christ is made up of both old covenant an new covenant believers. 

They are married to the God the Father. Jesus refers to them as a friend of the Groom. 

 

24 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

You think that was worse than the flood before or the two world wars after? 

I do not think anything. I am just quoting the Bible. Normal Bible interpretation is that one is a paradigm, archetype or a shadow and a type of the other. What do you have to base the tribulation on a 7 year period of time? 

[Last Daze]

26 minutes ago, JohnR7 said:

What do you have to base the tribulation on a 7 year period of time? 

I personally don't believe in a 7-year tribulation.  As believers, we experience tribulation, to varying degrees, because we are not of this world.  That has always been the case.  However, according to Jesus, there is coming a future time of unprecedented tribulation and Daniel says that it lasts for 3.5 years.

[JohnR7]

32 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

 Daniel says that it lasts for 3.5 years.

I have done the math on that Danial thing two or three times. There does seem to be a 7 year period of time missing if you go by the dates they give us to work with. I am looking for something a fifth grader could figure out. Not something you have to be an adult to understand. 

[Jedi4Yahweh]

On 9/9/2020 at 4:31 PM, JohnR7 said:

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be". (Matthew 24:21) We also see this in Ezekiel 5:9, Daniel 12:1 & Joel 2:2 who tells us "such as never was of old, nor will ever be in ages to come".

The Great Tribulation that Jesus is talking about took place in 70 AD when the temple was tore down. We are told that not one stone will remain upon another. The Church age actually began in 29 AD on the day of Pentecost when Peter was preaching in the upper room. It was 40 years later that the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed. 

We know the church age is coming to an end. I just wonder how the Great Tribulation of 70 AD relates to us today?  There is just not that much in the way of scripture talking about a Great Trib. I know lots of pastors preach lots of stuff but I want scripture and I want to know what the Bible says. 

Mat 24 is talking about two different events:  1) The Destruction of Jerusalem & Temple 2) The Second Coming.  Most teach that these have to happen together but I am not so sure that this is the case.

His disciples asked two separate question when will be the Destruction of the Temple and what will be sign of your coming?   Jesus/Yahshua answered both questions but I believe both do not necessarily have to happen at the same time.   Yes, it does seem like the first question regarding the destruction of the Temple and Desolation of Judea has already happened in 70 AD.   Regarding the second event Second Coming preceded by the the great tribulation that will come upon the whole world has yet to come. 

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by Jedi4Yahweh

[JohnR7]

21 minutes ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

I believe both do not necessarily have to happen at the same time.

Jesus was talking about both at the same time.  What happened in Jerusalem in 70 AD is going to happen again on a world wide scale. Some call this shadows and types, they call this a paradigm and the traditional term has been archetypes. We are the Temple of God because the Holy Spirit of God dwells inside of us. So just as the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed, the church age will come to an end and the kingdom age will begin. 

Bishop Ussher uses the year 4004BC for when God put Adam in the Garden of Eden. Adam lived for 33 years and he fell into sin. In 4 BC Jesus entered into the world. Like Adam He lived His life free from sin for 33 years. Then He want to Calvary to pay the price for Adam's sin. This would be the year 29 AD and 2029 AD. We know the temple was not actually destroyed in Jerusalem until 40 years later. So the third day from Jesus is the seventh day from Adam. 

The Church age is coming to an end and the Kingdom age is beginning. 

[abcdef]

On 9/9/2020 at 4:31 PM, JohnR7 said:

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be". (Matthew 24:21) We also see this in Ezekiel 5:9, Daniel 12:1 & Joel 2:2 who tells us "such as never was of old, nor will ever be in ages to come".

The Great Tribulation that Jesus is talking about took place in 70 AD when the temple was tore down. We are told that not one stone will remain upon another. The Church age actually began in 29 AD on the day of Pentecost when Peter was preaching in the upper room. It was 40 years later that the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed. 

We know the church age is coming to an end. I just wonder how the Great Tribulation of 70 AD relates to us today?  There is just not that much in the way of scripture talking about a Great Trib. I know lots of pastors preach lots of stuff but I want scripture and I want to know what the Bible says. 

Hi JohnR7,

Try this time line.

The 7 times are not 7 years.

They are the same time period as the statue in Dan. 2.

The first 3 1/2 times are from Babylon until 70 AD. Dan. 12:7. The angel says that it will be 3 1/2 times from the captivity in Babylon, until the power of the holy people are scattered. 

The second 3 1/2 times is from 70 AD when Israel is scattered among the gentile nations, until Israel is restored to military control of Jerusalem. (1967, if you can digest it)

The Revelation centers on the second 3 1/2 times from 70 AD until Jerusalem is restored.

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The Revelation centers and repeats the 70 AD until the restoration of Jerusalem time period, over and over, but from different viewpoints. (The second 3 1/2 times)

Story of the scroll, Seals/trumpets, 37 AD when Israel rejects the gospel kingdom, until the coming of Jesus at the 7th trumpet, then the story ends. (The sixth seal shows the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem). The events show the withdrawing of blessings on the unbelieving broken branches.

The 2 witness tell the same story, from the 37 AD temple being measured, until Jerusalem is restored by the people of Israel (the 2 witnesses). The people of Israel are still blessed because of the promises to the Fathers.

The woman of Rev 12, From the invasion of Israel by Rome 63 BC (the beast is Rome), until the woman leaves the wilderness of the gentile nations and returns to Jerusalem after the 3 1/2 times is over (implied). The believing woman, people of Israel, flee from Rome.

The other sections of the Rev follow the same pattern from other views.

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The reason that things are symbolized with OT images is because when the Revelation was written and distributed, you didn't want to have anything that spoke against Caesar and Rome, The penalty would be death or worse. That is why instead of saying "Caesar and Rome," they would write "the beast and the Antichrist." Anyone who knew the OT scriptures of Daniel 2 & 7, would know that the beast nation that followed Greece was Rome, the iron of Dan. 2, and the 4th beast of Dan. 7.

Think about it.

[JohnR7]

11 minutes ago, abcdef said:

(1967, if you can digest it)

If you add 70 years to 1967 that gives you 2037. That would be the beginning of the 8th day. That year is the beginning of a new presidential term. If you add 70 to 1967 = 2018 is when Trump moved the embassy to Jerusalem to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. 

[Jedi4Yahweh]

8 minutes ago, abcdef said:

 

The first 3 1/2 times are from Babylon until 70 AD. Dan. 12:7. The angel says that it will be 3 1/2 times from the captivity in Babylon, until the power of the holy people are scattered. 

The second 3 1/2 times is from 70 AD when Israel is scattered among the gentile nations, until Israel is restored to military control of Jerusalem. (1967, if you can digest it)

The Revelation centers on the second 3 1/2 times from 70 AD until Jerusalem is restored.

 

That actually makes sense.  Do you have a link to this teaching or timeline.  The way most are teaching does not make sense at all and has a massive missing time gap.  Messiah is cut off at 63 weeks of Daniel's 70 weeks leaving only 7 weeks left till desolation but here we are almost 2000 years later.   

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. - Dan 9:24-27 KJV