The first of the seven warnings of plagues the earth will see.

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Again, you error way to much brother. Rev. 6 is not an ACTIONABLE CHAPTER, the Trumpet Judgments is where the ACTION FORSACT in Rev. 6 happens. The Church is in Heaven (see Rev. 4 and 5.....you can't defeat my argument and you know it) before any Seals are opened. The Martyrs of the 5th Seal are all the Martyrs from the 42 month rule of the Beast which only starts at the Rev. 8 Trump asteroid strikes. You are going to be ashamed at how bad you preached the word to everyone when you get to heaven and find out you allowed the enemy to whisper lies into your mind brother. 

You imagine error because your preconceived theories are off. So truth seems to be error. It is the bane of many posters here. 

Sorry, but you don't really have an "argument;" all you have is imagination. If you could back up your theories with scripture correctly understood, it would be fine. We could discuss on a level playing field. 

Where you miss it: In chapter 6 John saw SEALS being opened: when a seal is opened STUFF HAPPENED. That, my friend, is ACTION: The opening of a seal causes an ACTION to become legal, and it then is carried out or at least started. For the first seal, for example: as soon as that first seal was opened, then it became LEGAL for God to send out the church to the nations. In fact, 5 seals are open. The church has been waiting at seal five for the full number of martyrs to be killed. Then judgment will begin with the Day of the Lord: 6th seal. 

As soon as seals 2 through 4 were opened, then it became legal for the devil to try and stop the advance of the gospel. We can be sure, as soon as it was legal, the devil began.

Note to readers: the ONLY WAY someone can imagine the martyrs of the 5th seal are 70th week martyrs is to pull the first seal out of its 32 AD context. Even if a reader of Revelation did not know of the 32 AD context, just reading of the martyrs, one should know, they cannot be 70th week martyrs. They were crying out, wondering how long it would be before God judged their deaths. If they were indeed 70th week martyrs, they would know judgment had already started and was IN PROGRESS.

RM, you amaze me with some of your errors in thinking. With your braggadocious manor, one would think you would get most things right. Oh well. 

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The Two-witnesses show up 75 days BEFORE (1335) the coming Anti-Christ Conquers the Jewish peoples to become THE BEAST. This is simple math. Malachi 4:5-6 tells us Elijah is sent back BEFORE the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord (which lasts 3.5 years) so, they show up and start their Ministry (OFFICE of 1260 days) before the BEAST who shows up at the 1260 event, which is 1260 days until Jesus' Second Coming ENDS ALL THESE WONDERS. (Thus the BEASTS OFFICE of 1260 days ends with Jesus' Return, OF COURSE, but the Two-witnesses 1260 days ends BEFORE the Beasts ends, so they have to start or BEGIN BEFORE the Beasts 1260 day office begins, its SIMPLE MATH. The AoD happens at the 1290, not the 1260, Daniel 12:11 tells us that, thus it can't be the Beasts doings, except he causes it by asking it of the False Prophet, his right hand man, who will be a Jewish High Priest after the order of Jason.

So, they show up 75 days before the Midway point, and die 75 days before the Second Coming kills the Beast via Jesus' speaking victory. There is no Sacrifice of human lives, THE SACRIFICE that the False Prophet stops is Jesus Worship, Gabriel and the Man in Linen (Jesus) were never speaking about a profane meat sacrifice, nor Human sacrifices (NEVER even heard that one) profaning the Temple, its the False Prophet (Jewish High Priest) ordering Jesus Worship to be STOPPED and then he places an IMAGE of the E.U. President in the Holy of Holies, which is an abomination, but only because the Jews worshiping Jesus CLEANSED the Temple.......REMEMBER, Elijah is sent back BEGORE the DOTL to turn Israel back unto God. The DOTL starts at the exact MIDWAY POINT, so the 1290 is 30 days before the MIDWAY POINT. Why would God give the Jews a SIGN to Flee Judea as the Anti-Christ was Conquering them ? He doesnt, the SIGN gives them a 30 day head start to GET OUT of Jerusalem and to head to the Mountainous area of Petra/Bozrah. 

 

The Two-witnesses show up 75 days BEFORE (1335) the coming Anti-Christ Conquers the Jewish peoples to become THE BEAST.  Here is a perfect example of you thinking you know, when in fact, you don't. The truth of scripture is, the two witnesses show up just 3.5 days before the man of sin enters the temple and does his abomination. You really should pay more attention to John's chronology. However, since you really don't know where in Revelation the man of sin does his abomination, that would leave you at a loss, so you imagine 1335 has something to do with it. (for the readers, it does not.)

Next, please show us a verse where the Antichrist conquers the Jewish people to become the Beast.

Malachi 4:5-6 tells us Elijah is sent back BEFORE the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord (which lasts 3.5 years) so, they show up and start their Ministry (OFFICE of 1260 days) before the BEAST who shows up at the 1260 event, which is 1260 days until Jesus' Second Coming ENDS ALL THESE WONDERS.   How you can have so many errors in one sentence is mind boggling! Elijah does not have to come back before the Day of the Lord, because Jesus told us John the baptist fulfilled that AS THE SPIRIT of Elijah. Elijah will come, but john shows both Witnesses showing up just 3.5 days before the abomination. Most of their testimony will be during the last half of the week. Only 3.5 days of their testimony will be in the first half of the week. For the readers: there is no verse ANYWHERE telling us the Day of the Lord will last only 3.5 years. That theory is myth.

The bolded part of the above is the one true part. They start their ministry JUST before (3.5 days before) the exact midpoint of the week, the 1260 day of the week, which is the day of the abomination. In Revelation that moment in time is marked by the 7th trumpet. 

Next, Jesus does NOT RETURN on the last day of the week. That too is myth. The week will end at the 7th vial, on the 2520th day, when the 7th vial is poured out. All the events of chapters 17 & 18 plus the marriage and supper will take place in heaven before Jesus returns. 

The AoD happens at the 1290, not the 1260, Daniel 12:11 tells us that, thus it can't be the Beasts doings, except he causes it by asking it of the False Prophet, his right hand man, who will be a Jewish High Priest after the order of Jason.  This is just more imagination. It is the abomination that DIVIDES the week, and the week is divided exactly in half, as the two mentions of the 1260 days proves. In other words, the AofD will happen on the 1260th day of the week. 

So, they show up 75 days before the Midway point,   MYTH: they show up 3.5 DAYS before the midpoint.   Their countdown, like the other 4, is for the last half of the week. 

and die 75 days before the Second Coming   No, they die 3.5 days before the end of the week, which is NOT the coming of Christ to Armageddon. 

The DOTL starts at the exact MIDWAY POINT,  Just more myth. We all know the D of the Lord starts at the 6th seal, before any part of the 70th week. 

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, luigi said:

If we're anywhere now, it is where the four angels who had been restraining the damage due the earth, have now ceased their restraining, and we are now rapidly approaching where the earth will soon see 1/3 of its trees burn. I wonder when the second sign in which 1/3 of earth's seas turn to blood, which probably represents a massive increase in red tides, will occur. 

No, we are not there. That is just before the sealing. It is EASY to know where we are now: are martyrs still be killed in the church age or age of grace we are now in? I think you will have to agree. We often don't here of them, but martyrs are dying in other nations. The church therefore is still at the 5th seal and will remain there until the full number has been killed. 

By the way, before the next seal, seal 6 comes, the RAPTURE will take place.

Edited September 21, 2020 by iamlamad

[luigi]

5 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The Two-witnesses show up 75 days BEFORE (1335) the coming Anti-Christ Conquers the Jewish peoples to become THE BEAST. This is simple math. Malachi 4:5-6 tells us Elijah is sent back BEFORE the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord (which lasts 3.5 years) so, they show up and start their Ministry (OFFICE of 1260 days) before the BEAST who shows up at the 1260 event, which is 1260 days until Jesus' Second Coming ENDS ALL THESE WONDERS. (Thus the BEASTS OFFICE of 1260 days ends with Jesus' Return, OF COURSE, but the Two-witnesses 1260 days ends BEFORE the Beasts ends, so they have to start or BEGIN BEFORE the Beasts 1260 day office begins, its SIMPLE MATH. The AoD happens at the 1290, not the 1260, Daniel 12:11 tells us that, thus it can't be the Beasts doings, except he causes it by asking it of the False Prophet, his right hand man, who will be a Jewish High Priest after the order of Jason.

So, they show up 75 days before the Midway point, and die 75 days before the Second Coming kills the Beast via Jesus' speaking victory. There is no Sacrifice of human lives, THE SACRIFICE that the False Prophet stops is Jesus Worship, Gabriel and the Man in Linen (Jesus) were never speaking about a profane meat sacrifice, nor Human sacrifices (NEVER even heard that one) profaning the Temple, its the False Prophet (Jewish High Priest) ordering Jesus Worship to be STOPPED and then he places an IMAGE of the E.U. President in the Holy of Holies, which is an abomination, but only because the Jews worshiping Jesus CLEANSED the Temple.......REMEMBER, Elijah is sent back BEGORE the DOTL to turn Israel back unto God. The DOTL starts at the exact MIDWAY POINT, so the 1290 is 30 days before the MIDWAY POINT. Why would God give the Jews a SIGN to Flee Judea as the Anti-Christ was Conquering them ? He doesnt, the SIGN gives them a 30 day head start to GET OUT of Jerusalem and to head to the Mountainous area of Petra/Bozrah. 

 

The beast makes war with the two witnesses at the conclusion of their 1,260 days of testifying. Prior to the two witnesses testifying in Jerusalem, Jerusalem shall have been overrun, and once overrun is then is then the starting point in which the gentiles shall tread it underfoot for the 1,260 days while the two witnesses testify. The beast who ascends from the bottomless pit is part of the gentile masses who shall tread Jerusalem underfoot. After the beast contends with the two witnesses and kills them, there are then 3.5 days before the two witnesses are resurrected, and are called up to heaven, at which time there is a great earthquake, and the seventh angel sounds and declares the kingdoms of the earth are now become the Lords.

If the world's kingdoms become the Lord's kingdoms shortly after the 1260 days of the two witnesses testimony, then the beast's 1,260 days reigning over all the world's kingdoms will have to coincide with these same 1,260 days. You cannot have the beast reigning the world's kingdoms while at the same time the kingdoms of the world are declared being the Lord's kingdoms.

[luigi]

38 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

No, we are not there. That is just before the sealing. It is EASY to know where we are now: are martyrs still be killed in the church age or age of grace we are now in? I think you will have to agree. We often don't here of them, but martyrs are dying in other nations. The church therefore is still at the 5th seal and will remain there until the full number has been killed. 

By the way, before the next seal, seal 6 comes, the RAPTURE will take place.

I will agree that we are still under the chaotic events under the first 5 seals. As such, with the wrath of the lamb soon to follow, that is then followed by the plagues in Revelation 8 & 9, in which the beast shall ascend and reign for 42 months, at the conclusion of which the Lord will commence to reign and commence his wrath upon the beasts worshippers; I then see the wrath of the lamb under the sixth seal not as the greater wrath that will come from the Father under the seventh seal in Revelation 11:18, which are the seven vials of God's wrath in Revelation 16.

[iamlamad]

4 minutes ago, luigi said:

I will agree that we are still under the chaotic events under the first 5 seals. As such, with the wrath of the lamb soon to follow, that is then followed by the plagues in Revelation 8 & 9, in which the beast shall ascend and reign for 42 months, at the conclusion of which the Lord will commence to reign and commence his wrath upon the beasts worshippers; I then see the wrath of the lamb under the sixth seal not as the greater wrath that will come from the Father under the seventh seal in Revelation 11:18, which are the seven vials of God's wrath in Revelation 16.

the seventh seal in Revelation 11:18, which are the seven vials of God's wrath in Revelation 16.

Sorry, but the 7th seal only allows the BOOK to be opened, and it is inside the book that the trumpets and vials are found. I know, some people can the 7th seal CONTAINS the trumpets and the 7th trumpet contains the 7 vials. I disagree. I think there is a much better way to say it. 

I think what you are saying is that God's wrath BUILDS as plague after plague comes and people still refuse to repent. Finally, the vials are FILLEd with His wrath.

[luigi]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

the seventh seal in Revelation 11:18, which are the seven vials of God's wrath in Revelation 16.

Sorry, but the 7th seal only allows the BOOK to be opened, and it is inside the book that the trumpets and vials are found. I know, some people can the 7th seal CONTAINS the trumpets and the 7th trumpet contains the 7 vials. I disagree. I think there is a much better way to say it. 

I think what you are saying is that God's wrath BUILDS as plague after plague comes and people still refuse to repent. Finally, the vials are FILLEd with His wrath.

What I'm saying I made quite clear. The lambs wrath at the opening of the 6th seal precedes the Fathers wrath at the opening of the seventh seal in Revelation 11:18 which are the seven vials of Gods wrath that are poured out upon the beasts worshippers. When the lambs wrath commences under the sixth seal, the bottomless pit from which the beast shall ascend has yet to be opened, and thus is a different wrath from the wrath that will befall the beast's worshippers. 

[Revelation Man]

5 hours ago, luigi said:

The beast makes war with the two witnesses at the conclusion of their 1,260 days of testifying. Prior to the two witnesses testifying in Jerusalem, Jerusalem shall have been overrun, and once overrun is then is then the starting point in which the gentiles shall tread it underfoot for the 1,260 days while the two witnesses testify.

The Scarlet Colored Beast (Apollyon) indeed kills the Two-witnesses AFTER they have been witnessing 1260 days but BEFORE his 1260 days are up, because he dies at the 2nd Coming, via the 7th Vial, they die at the 2nd Woe. 

Jerusalem is not overrun prior to the Two-witnesses starting their ministry, if you would stop and THINK.......DO MATH, Simple Math at that, the above quote you just made proves your own assumption wrong. The Beasts total rule is 1260 days, that mean's from the time he conquers Jerusalem, until the time he dies. Thus if the Two-witnesses die first, and they do, at the 2nd Woe, that means they have to start their 1260 day Ministry/Office BRFORE Jerusalem is Conquered. This is simple math. 

5 hours ago, luigi said:

If the world's kingdoms become the Lord's kingdoms shortly after the 1260 days of the two witnesses testimony, then the beast's 1,260 days reigning over all the world's kingdoms will have to coincide with these same 1,260 days. You cannot have the beast reigning the world's kingdoms while at the same time the kingdoms of the world are declared being the Lord's kingdoms.

Its 75 days later. 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, luigi said:

What I'm saying I made quite clear. The lambs wrath at the opening of the 6th seal precedes the Fathers wrath at the opening of the seventh seal in Revelation 11:18 which are the seven vials of Gods wrath that are poured out upon the beasts worshippers. When the lambs wrath commences under the sixth seal, the bottomless pit from which the beast shall ascend has yet to be opened, and thus is a different wrath from the wrath that will befall the beast's worshippers. 

It does not matter how clear you make it, it is not what is written; it is therefore only human imagination. At the 6th seal it is the DAY OF THE LORD. Research that in the Old Testament and you will find it is GOD's wrath;  which would include the Father's wrath and the Son's wrath. Then a few days later the 7th seal is opened showing us that the 70th week is INSIDE the Day of the Lord (the Day of Wrath) so we know every event of the 70th week, the 7 trumpets and the 7 vials all come inside the Day of His wrath so come WITH His wrath.  The wrath in chapter 11 only tells us God is STILL angry with the same anger He started with, only He may now have greater angry because no one is repenting. So the vials of His wrath near the end of the week are FILLED with His wrath. 

By the way, the 7th seal is opened in chapter 8, then forgotten, it is not in chapter 11. 

Diffferent wrath? How does anyone come up with this stuff. If there is any difference, it is that God gets more angry as time goes on. 

[luigi]

9 hours ago, iamlamad said:

It does not matter how clear you make it, it is not what is written; it is therefore only human imagination. At the 6th seal it is the DAY OF THE LORD. Research that in the Old Testament and you will find it is GOD's wrath;  which would include the Father's wrath and the Son's wrath. Then a few days later the 7th seal is opened showing us that the 70th week is INSIDE the Day of the Lord (the Day of Wrath) so we know every event of the 70th week, the 7 trumpets and the 7 vials all come inside the Day of His wrath so come WITH His wrath.  The wrath in chapter 11 only tells us God is STILL angry with the same anger He started with, only He may now have greater angry because no one is repenting. So the vials of His wrath near the end of the week are FILLED with His wrath. 

By the way, the 7th seal is opened in chapter 8, then forgotten, it is not in chapter 11. 

Diffferent wrath? How does anyone come up with this stuff. If there is any difference, it is that God gets more angry as time goes on. 

I totally agree that at the sixth seal when the wrath of the lamb (Jesus) is come, is synonymous with the day of the Lord. This, however, is not the wrath of both the Father and that of the Lord Jesus until the opening of the seventh seal, which are the seven vials of wrath poured out upon the worshippers of the beast.

I see my typo error where I should have said the seventh trumpet sounding in Revelation 11:18 is when the wrath of the Father and the Son commences, which is also after the seventh seal has been opened in chapter 8.