The first of the seven warnings of plagues the earth will see.

[Revelation Man]

11 hours ago, luigi said:

I agree angels who are our illuminators are not locked in a pit. What is locked is the means to access the power the in the bottomless/unlimited pit. The angel of the bottomless pit therefore provides the key/illumination to mankind to access the power to attain the power to the bottomless/pit.

Go read the Old Testament, you will understand that Apollyon is a Demon Destroyer, not an Angel. 

[luigi]

41 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Go read the Old Testament, you will understand that Apollyon is a Demon Destroyer, not an Angel. 

There are angels of God, and there are angels of the devil. The Lord's angels illumine mankind with truth, while the devils angels masquerade as true illumination, but actually deceive all mankind.

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

[Revelation Man]

On 9/21/2020 at 1:48 PM, iamlamad said:

You imagine error because your preconceived theories are off. So truth seems to be error. It is the bane of many posters here. 

 

Its funny no one else agrees with your "TRUTHS", except you.

On 9/21/2020 at 1:48 PM, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but you don't really have an "argument;" all you have is imagination. If you could back up your theories with scripture correctly understood, it would be fine. We could discuss on a level playing field. 

 

You can't understand simple truths like the timing of the Seals being opened, so I don't think you will be able to understand the more complex issues in the bible, you are the type who "learns something" that someone pushes on you, and you cling to it like its your rock in an ocean, meanwhile you can't see that you are 10 feet from land-ho, nor can you see the lighthouse, because you are clinging to that rock for dear life, in this case you can't even hear people screaming because you assume your hearing things, people don't live in the middle of the ocean. You will never understand the things I do about the Book of Revelation/Daniel/Ezekiel/Zechariah etc. etc.

On 9/21/2020 at 1:48 PM, iamlamad said:

Where you miss it: In chapter 6 John saw SEALS being opened: when a seal is opened STUFF HAPPENED.

Wrong, the book can not be opened until the Seals are all OFF. Jesus was Prophesying as to what is coming, that is why Seal 6 matches Trump 4, you just can't see it because you have tunnel vision brother, that Seal being opened 2000 some odd years ago with you is a "PRIDE THING" and men can't gain knowledge from God when they already KNOW IT ALL, I know, because the Holy Spirt told me that is why we have 100s of ideas as to what Babylon is, what the 144,000 is, what the Harlot is etc. etc. He was like "Ron, you guys already know it all". I understood, and stopped relying on men's ideas at all, unless it lined up with God 100 percent, so I sought to get it all from God first, thus I now can tell whose ideas are in the know and whose ideas are a little off.

Rev. 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Rev. 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

Trump #1 = FIRE........Trump #2 = Mountain/ASTEROID........Trump #3 = Same Asteroid coming in HOT/Star, which poisons upon impact.

Trump #4 is the Rev. 8:12 verse above, it matches the Rev. 6:12 verse for a reason, and it matches Trump 1 and Trump 2 and 3 also. The Great Earthquake is the IMPACT felt around the world, the Sun becomes black means the Smoke from 1/3 of the trees burning and all the grasses burning, and from the IMPACT dims the light(s), OF COURSE, that we can see. The moon turns to blood why? Because of the red hue from all the burning trees, it appears to be red, the Sun is so far away its going to get darker, but the Moon appears to turn blood red because of all the fires via the skies are tinted red at night.

The Anti-Christ goes forth Conquering as the asteroid strikes, he uses the strike as a tactical advantage because he's ruthless and evil. Its really simple to understand (after 30 years I understood FINALLY, that's how simple it was...BUT I give it to you freely, that is easier than waiting 30 years, so, ITS SIMPLE....) that the First Four Seals are all the 42 month Rule of the Anti-Christ, AND that the 5th Seal is his Martyrs over the same 42 months. Those under the altar are told specifically that they can not gain VENGEANCE, until ALL THE BROTHERS have been killed in like manner as they have. It's metaphoric in nature, God/Jesus is telling us all ahead of time, if you die for me during the tribulation period, you will get your vengeance, but only after the Anti-Christ is finished killing and murdering over his 42 month period of rule, he must do what he must do. (I will not be here, but some will be here)

On 9/21/2020 at 1:48 PM, iamlamad said:

That, my friend, is ACTION: The opening of a seal causes an ACTION to become legal, and it then is carried out or at least started. For the first seal, for example: as soon as that first seal was opened, then it became LEGAL for God to send out the church to the nations. In fact, 5 seals are open. The church has been waiting at seal five for the full number of martyrs to be killed. Then judgment will begin with the Day of the Lord: 6th seal. 

You can't read the Judgments (7 Trumps) until all the Seals are broken brother. No Seal is a Judgment, its Jesus, CLEARLY PROPHESYING what is about to befall mankind. We know the Day of the Lord is the Joel 2:31 event, we see that HAPPEN in Revelation chapter 8 with the first four seals, so where does the 6th Seal happen brother? Trump numbers 1, 2, 3 and 4, of course. When does the Anti-Christ go forth? Trump numbers 1, 2, 3 and 4 also, thus that event starts the Wrath of God. Jesus opens a Seal in Heaven and speaks to the Church/Bride in Heaven, this is coming, then he opens Seal #2 and says this is coming, then when he opens Seal #7, there is SILENCE IN HEAVEN, the Book can be OPENED and the Judgements can be read, God's Wrath is at hand, the Trumpet Judgements are about to be SOUNDED by the 7 Angels.

Simply NO ONE buys your argument brother, NO ONE. I mean maybe Billy in Florida, and Susan in New York, but literally, NO ONE.

On 9/21/2020 at 1:48 PM, iamlamad said:

As soon as seals 2 through 4 were opened, then it became legal for the devil to try and stop the advance of the gospel. We can be sure, as soon as it was legal, the devil began.

 

To tell you the truth brother, I just SMH at this stuff. 

On 9/21/2020 at 1:48 PM, iamlamad said:

Note to readers: the ONLY WAY someone can imagine the martyrs of the 5th seal are 70th week martyrs is to pull the first seal out of its 32 AD context. Even if a reader of Revelation did not know of the 32 AD context, just reading of the martyrs, one should know, they cannot be 70th week martyrs. They were crying out, wondering how long it would be before God judged their deaths. If they were indeed 70th week martyrs, they would know judgment had already started and was IN PROGRESS.

 

The First Seal is opened in the presence of the Bride IN HEAVEN. SEE Revelation chapters 4 and 5. The cries are Jesus Prophesying unto them they can get NO VENGEANCE until the Beasts 42 month rule is over.

On 9/21/2020 at 1:48 PM, iamlamad said:

RM, you amaze me with some of your errors in thinking. With your braggadocious manor, one would think you would get most things right. Oh well. 

I am an amazing man I guess, but I am one that understands Prophecy, its my calling from God, I went 30 years, not being WRONG per se, just not understanding how to unlock these mysteries until God showed me how simple it really is, JUST ASK God to show you, and He will. That idea you have, that almost no one believes, came from a MAN, someone who heard WHISPERS from the devil whose job it is to whisper lies unto us over and over and over.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

Double Post

Edited September 23, 2020 by Revelation Man

[iamlamad]

43 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Its funny no one else agrees with your "TRUTHS", except you.

Perhaps none of those on this forum. But the world is a big place. There are others that agree with my timing of the seals - those that read without preconceived glasses. 

You keep telling us you hear from the Holy Spirit so of course you are right - but not once that I know of have you written the WORDS the Holy Spirit spoke. Perhaps then, it as only too much pizza or imagination. Too many times, people hear the "still small voice" of their own human spirit and imagine it is God. 

² And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

³ And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

WHEN? When in the life of Christ was there a time that Jesus was NOT WORTHY? John tells us - you ignore it.

⁵ And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

When did Jesus BECOME worthy? John tells us - you ignore it.

⁶ And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

When did Jesus ascend and send the Holy Spirit down? The bible tells us this, but you seem to ignore that John wrote it in his two chapter narrative here of the throne room. 

[iamlamad]

51 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

You can't understand simple truths like the timing of the Seals being opened, so I don't think you will be able to understand the more complex issues in the bible, you are the type who "learns something" that someone pushes on you, and you cling to it like its your rock in an ocean, meanwhile you can see that you are 10 feet from land-ho, nor can you see the lighthouse, because you are clinging to that rock for dear life, in this case you can't even hear people screaming because you assume your hearing things, people don't live in the middle of the ocean. cabout the Book of Revelation/Daniel/Ezekiel/Zechariah etc. etc.

This is a classic example of your imagination. You think you know, so of course everyone who disagrees is wrong - who cares what the WORD says. I pay attention to the CONTEXT of the seals, while you with your imagination ignores the context. Let me remind you again of the context:

 

⁶ And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

WHEN? WHEN did Jesus ascend and send the Holy Spirit down? I can assure you, just before Jesus opened the first seal. 

You will never understand the things I do   Pride does a lot of talking.

Coffman Commentariies: 

1. "The white horse ..." The color here is significant, for its contrasts with the colors of the other horses; and nowhere in Revelation is white used otherwise than as a symbol of purity, holiness, glory, etc. "In the book of Revelation, white is never used of anything evil."[10] The white throne upon which God sits is an example.

2. The choice of a "horse" in this symbolism means "war." It is a righteous war, for the horse was white, indicating truth and righteousness. "This war began when Jesus ascended to the right hand of the Father in heaven, and his disciples began to go everywhere at his command."[11]

3. The rider wore a crown which was "given to him," not a crown extorted through the atrocities of war, but a gift of God. A "crown" in the Scriptural sense upon the head of some profane conqueror is impossible to believe. Only Christ fits the picture.

4. The rider on this white horse went forth "conquering and to conquer," expressions used extensively elsewhere in the New Testament of Christ. "We feel sure that had you never heard another interpretation you would at once have said, `This is the Conquering Christ

He perhaps missed it in that it is the conquering CHURCH, not Christ per se.   he continues:

Some little time has been devoted to this opening of the first seal, because the way it is interpreted will color all that follows. For example, if this crowned rider on the white horse with the bow in his hand is understood to mean Jesus Christ and his worldwide program of preaching the gospel, it is clear enough that it cannot possibly refer to some relatively short period of history, but to the entire dispensation reaching from the First Advent to the Second Advent. Thus we confidently interpret it. "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all nations; and then shall the end come" (Matthew 24:14).

Expository Notes:  By the white horse is generally understood the gospel, so called in regard of the divinity and spotless purity of its doctrine: the rider upon this horse is Christ, who rode swiftly in the ministry of the apostles, and other faithful teachers in the first ages of Christianity; and he rode with a bow in his hand, and a crown on his head: with a bow, that is, with threatenings and terrors denounced against his enemies before they were inflicted upon them, as the bow is first held in the hand, then the arrow prepared upon the string, and at last shot forth: and with a crown, denoting that royal state of kingly dignity and honour to which Christ, the Lamb that was slain, was now exalted; and thus he rode on conquering and to conquer, until he had consummated his victories, in a glorious triumph over his enemies, namely, in the conversion of some, and destruction of others; thus the opening of the first seal gave the church a very encouraging and comfortable prospect of the victories, successes and triumphs, of Christ, notwithstanding the rage, subtlety, and power, of all his enemies: Christ rode on with a bow in his hand, and with a crown on his head, conquering and to conquer, until his arrows were sharp in the hearts of his crucifiers; and will thus ride on till the people fall under him, and all his enemies become his footstool.

Matthew Poole:

2. Hence it followeth, that many of the things prophesied are fulfilled; ...

3. I take it for granted also, that things happened in the same order as is here described; so as the things under the second seal came not to pass till those prophesied of under the first seal were, in a great measure, accomplished, &c.

Some, by this white horse, understand the gospel; others, the Roman empire.

Justin Edwards Commentary: l. There are those who suppose that the seven seals and the seven trumpets run, either wholly or in part, parallel with each other in time, each carrying the history of the church and the world down to the era of millennial glory. Such of course apply the sixth seal to the mighty revolutions, commotions, and overturnings that immediately precede the millennial reign of Christ. But it seems impossible to reconcile this view with the plain words of the apostle in chap Revelation

 

Adam Clarke Commentary

A white horse - Supposed to represent the Gospel system, and pointing out its excellence, swiftness, and purity.

John Gill commentary 

And I saw, and behold a white horse,.... Representing the ministration of the Gospel in the times of the apostles, which were just now finishing, John being the last of them, who saw this vision; and the "horse" being a swift, majestic, and warlike creature, and fearless of opposition and war, may design the swift progress of the Gospel in the world, the majesty, power, and authority with which it came, and opposition it met with, and which was bore down before it; and its "white" colour may denote the purity of Gospel truths, the peace it proclaims, the joy brings, and the triumph that attends it, on account of victories obtained by it,

and he that sat on him had a bow; with arrows; the bow is the word of the Gospel, and the arrows the doctrines of it;

and he went forth, conquering and to conquer; in the ministration of the Gospel  which went forth, as did all the first ministers of it, from Jerusalem, to the several parts of the world; from the east, on which side of the throne was the first living creature, who called upon John to come and see this sight, as the standard of the tribe of Judah, which had a lion upon it, was on the east side of the camp of Israel; and out of Zion went forth the word of the Lord, which was very victorious, both among Jews and Gentiles, to the conversion of thousands of them, and to the planting of a multitude of churches among them, and to the setting up and advancing the kingdom of Christ; but inasmuch as yet all things are not made subject to him, he is represented as going forth in the Gospel, still conquering, and to conquer, what remain to be conquered:

John Trapp Commentary: And behold a white horse] The apostles and apostolic preachers of the primitive times, white for their purity of doctrine, discipline, and conversation; horses for their nimble and swift spreading the gospel, which ran αθροως οια τις ηλιου βολη, through the world like a sunbeam

had a bow] The doctrine of the gospel, whereby the people fall under him, Psalms 45:4.

 

Heinrich Meyer's Commentary:

 ‘The white horse is the word of preaching sent with the Holy Spirit into the world. For the Lord says, This gospel shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come,’—

Whedon's Commentary:  The white horse was, in antiquity, a symbol of victory. The conqueror, in triumphal processions, rode on a white horse. And hence the Messiah, in Revelation 19:11, rides a “white horse.” From this fact many commentators identify the two, and interpret this symbol as the going forth of a conquering gospel. 

Dr. Thomas Constable.  There have been many suggestions concerning who or what this rider represents. These include a Roman emperor, the Parthian invasion of the Roman Empire, Messiah, and the Antichrist. Others have taken him to represent the Word of God, a personification of judgment, the victorious course of the gospel,

George Haydock Catholic Commentary:

A white horse, such as conquerors used to ride upon at a solemn triumph. This is commonly understood of our Saviour, Christ, who, by himself and his apostles, preachers, martyrs, and other saints, triumphed over all the adversaries of his Church. He had a bow in his hand, the doctrine of his gospel, piercing like an arrow the hearts of the hearers; and the crown given him, was a token of the victory of him who went forth conquering, that he might conquer. (Witham) --- He that sitteth on the white horse is Christ, going forth to subdue the world by his gospel.  (I don't think the rider is Jesus.

 

Hanserd Knollys' Commentary on Revelation

By this white horse we may understand the ministry of the gospel of peace and grace, especially the powerful operation of the Holy Spirit in the word preached.

Unknown Commentary:

1. In verse2Christ opens THE FIRST SEAL

WHICH IS EVANGELISM--"And I saw A WHITE HORSE, and He that sat on him had a bow, and a crown was given unto Him: and He went forth conquering and to conquer."

This first seal reveals Christ going throughout the world preaching the gospel in a holy war against sin. Christian evangelism is marked by countless victories. In John"s day the Roman emperor claimed absolute power, but here in the first seal John saw that the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ will result in victories in his and all generations as the reign of Jesus Christ extends over surrendered Christians. Victory does not belong to temporal earthly powers--not even to Roman Emperors--but the bow and crown of victory is given to the evangel of the risen Christ.

Benson Commentary

 the kingdoms of this world should become the kingdom of our God and of his Christ. The white colour of the horse, the bow which he had that sat on it, shooting arrows afar off, the crown given unto him, and his going forth conquering and to conquer — All these circumstances betoken victory, triumph, prosperity, enlargement of empire, and dominion over many people. And all these figurative representations of authority, government, success, and conquest, may be properly applied to the gospel and the kingdom of Christ, which was now beginning to spread far and wide, 

As you can see, I  am FAR from the only one that sees the first seal as the gospel going forth. 

Perhaps you should spend some time reading the commentaries.. 

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Wrong, the book can not be opened until the Seals are all OFF. Jesus was Prophesying as to what is coming, that is why Seal 6 matches Trump 4, you just can't see it because you have tunnel vision brother, that Seal being opened 2000 some odd years ago with you is a "PRIDE THING" and men can't gain knowledge from God when they already KNOW IT ALL, I know, because the Holy Spirt told me that is why we have 100s of ideas as to what Babylon is, what the 144,000 is, what the Harlot is etc. etc. He was like "Ron, you guys already know it all". I understood, and stopped relying on men's ideas at all, unless it lined up with God 100 percent, so I sought to get it all from God first, thus I now can tell whose ideas are in the know and whose ideas are a little off.

 us over and over and over.

the book can not be opened until the Seals are all OFF  I have always said that the book cannot be opened until ALL SEVEN seals are opened first. This may be the ONLY place we agree. 

that is why Seal 6 matches Trump 4,   You just contradicted yourself! But perhaps you did not know it. The trumpets are written INSIDE THE BOOK. They cannot possibly match up with any seal! The book cannot be opened until ALL seals (yes, even seal 6) are opened first. 

you just can't see it because you have tunnel vision brother, I understand you have to lower others so  you look good. It is a common trait.

that Seal being opened 2000 some odd years ago with you is a "PRIDE THING" and men can't gain knowledge from God when they already KNOW IT ALL  Ah!  My friend: you are talking about yourself!  

⁶ And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Ask yourself WHEN! WHEN did Jesus ascend and send the Holy Spirit down?

Where we differ here is paying attention to CONTEXT. You ignore it, I understand it: Jesus explained it to me. 

[Revelation Man]

On 9/21/2020 at 2:09 PM, iamlamad said:

The Two-witnesses show up 75 days BEFORE (1335) the coming Anti-Christ Conquers the Jewish peoples to become THE BEAST.  Here is a perfect example of you thinking you know, when in fact, you don't. The truth of scripture is, the two witnesses show up just 3.5 days before the man of sin enters the temple and does his abomination. You really should pay more attention to John's chronology. However, since you really don't know where in Revelation the man of sin does his abomination, that would leave you at a loss, so you imagine 1335 has something to do with it. (for the readers, it does not.)

 

1. The Man of Sin does not put forth the AoD, its done at the 1290 and the Anti-Christ doesn't Conquer Jerusalem until the 1260. But, if you can't get the Seals right, its a very, very, very LONG SHOT you will ever get the timing of the AoD sorted out brother. So both have earthly "OFFICES" of 1260 days on earth, as THE BEAST and as the TWO-WITNESSES, and you think the Two-witnesses show up 3.5 days BEFORE the Beast and thus once they die and are raised 3.5 days later it ALL ENDS, when  the 7 Vials have not even been poured out yet. That makes absolutely no sense as per the timings brother. The AoD happens 30 days before the Anti-Christ becomes THE BEAST, the AoD is the False Prophet (Jewish High Priest) placing the IMAGE of the Beast in the Temple. (P.S. if the Two-witnesses show up only 3.5 days BEFORE the Beast, I will show below, what must needs be the timing, BUT of course its not.......This is YOUR TIMING BELOW:

Two-Witnesses show u 3.5 days before The Beast........................................................The Beast Conquers Jerusalem/Israel/MANY. 

So, they are on the scene according to you at the 1263.5 Mark............................The Beast of course shows up at the 1260 Mark.

If the Two-witnesses die  3.5 days before they ARISE, that means that 3.5 days later, according to the 1260 day rule of the Beast (that's his LIMIT) the Beast must DIE and be cast into hell by Jesus. There is no IFS, ANDS or MAYBES, it all would have to end 3.5 days later, because BOTH have ONLY 1260 days via their EARTHLY OFFICES. I have been trying to tell you for a couple of years, there is only one reason we are given these 1260 day timelines, so we, God's people, can JUXTAPOSE them against each other and get our bearings, like the North Star. God did not need the Two-witnesses to DIE, He could have just raptured them to heaven, LOL, its 1260 days so you and I can understand all the other TIMELINES Juxtaposed against the Beasts timeline that runs from the 1260 Conquering of Jerusalem until Jesus returns. Thus the only way you can be right (and you are not right) is if all the 7 Vials took 3.5 days, LOL. COME ON MAN !!

Its SIMPLE MATH man !!

On 9/21/2020 at 2:09 PM, iamlamad said:

Next, please show us a verse where the Antichrist conquers the Jewish people to become the Beast.

Malachi 4:5-6 tells us Elijah is sent back BEFORE the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord (which lasts 3.5 years) so, they show up and start their Ministry (OFFICE of 1260 days) before the BEAST who shows up at the 1260 event, which is 1260 days until Jesus' Second Coming ENDS ALL THESE WONDERS.   How you can have so many errors in one sentence is mind boggling! Elijah does not have to come back before the Day of the Lord, because Jesus told us John the baptist fulfilled that AS THE SPIRIT of Elijah. Elijah will come, but john shows both Witnesses showing up just 3.5 days before the abomination. Most of their testimony will be during the last half of the week. Only 3.5 days of their testimony will be in the first half of the week. For the readers: there is no verse ANYWHERE telling us the Day of the Lord will last only 3.5 years. That theory is myth.

The bolded part of the above is the one true part. They start their ministry JUST before (3.5 days before) the exact midpoint of the week, the 1260 day of the week, which is the day of the abomination. In Revelation that moment in time is marked by the 7th trumpet. 

1. John the Baptist was not Elijah, you can mix that up and cling to that untruth all you like, Gabriel the Angel is quoted in Luke 1 saying that John was come in the Spirit of Elijah. Jesus was saying that John did the same thing that Elijah was going to do and they received him not. It astounds me that people actually think a man can be born again, its just not factual. Elijah was seen at the Mt of Olives transfiguration. John  came to call Israel to repentance, now please show me how he fulfilled Malachi 4:5-6, because he did not, Israel never turned back unto God under John, and Jesus CLEARLY STATED that Elijah would return and restore Israel in the END TIMES. You just have a comprehension problem on these things brother, once you get something in your mind, you have no earthly ability, it seems, to see anything but your understandings. (P.S. I prove above your 3.5 days CAN NOT BE CORRECT)

After the transfiguration on the mount, Jesus came back down and told the Disciples to tell no one until the Son of Man (Jesus)had been raised from the dead........Then Jesus tells them thus once they ask him a question.

Matt. 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. 10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?

11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall(not will but SHALL) first come, and restore all things.

12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. 13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Jesus is simply giving them an axiom, Jesus is saying, John the Baptist came and did the EXACT SAME THING that Elijah is going to do, but they REJECTED him and KILLED him, but Elijah will RESTORE the Kingdom, John did not. How do you miss that fact? The Kingdom was overrun in 70 AD, it was NEVER RESTORED, the 70 year punishment was not even finished yet, how could it be restored without REPENTANCE FIRST?  The 7th Trumpet by the way, is the 3rd Woe (read Rev. 8:13, its says the Last Three Trumps ARE the 3 Woes) thus the 3rd Woe is ALL 7 Vials, and that will not come to pass in 3.5 days. 

On 9/21/2020 at 2:09 PM, iamlamad said:

Next, please show us a verse where the Antichrist conquers the Jewish people to become the Beast.

 

2. We know exactly when the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Israel/MANY, its in Daniel chapter 12. 

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two(2 Angels), the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river. 6 And one (Angel) said to the man clothed in linen(Jesus), which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? (Remember this QUESTION the Angels asks Jesus !!)

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen(Jesus), which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Or in modern writing style it would say this, when the Holy peoples (Jewish people) power is lost and they have been scattered, all these things (WONDERS) will be finished in 1260 days (Time, times and 1/2 time).

What was THE QUESTION ? How long shall it be until the WONDERS ALL END? Then Jesus Answers, from the time Jerusalem is Conquered, or Scattered, or they are OVERCOME and thus lose their POWER, there will be 1260 days. (and that means the Second Coming of Jesus as we all now know, ENDS ALL THESE WONDERS God was showing Daniel).

So, the bible tells us that the one who Conquers Jerusalem will rule over them 1260 days. 

Rev. 11 says this also..........Rev. 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Now that we know that Jesus himself told Daniel that the Jews will be Conquered during these END TIMES (see Dan. 12:1-2, its END TIMES no doubt) and they will be ruled over or lose power for 1260 days and THEN the end will come to these WONDERS which Daniel was being shown (which of course means the Second Coming ends all these things), now, what do the other two numbers mean? WELL, Lets see:

Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? ( Daniel asks again the EXACT SAME Question that the Angel asked Jesus, so NATUARLY Jesus' answer is about a specific number of days until ALL THESE WOMDERS END !! So, the 1290, and 1335, is just like the 1260, a SET NUMBER OF DAYS..........Until ALL THESE WONDERS END !!)

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away (Jesus Worship), and the abomination(Image of the Beast) that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

REMEMBER, its HOW MANY DAYS UNTIL THESE WONDERS END..........that is the question by Daniel, its the exact same question the Angel asked Jesus, so Jesus after telling Daniel to go his way, gives him two more clues in the EXACT SAME MANNER.

The AoD will be 1290 days until ALL THESE WONDERS END.

The 1335 will be 1335 days until ALL THESE WONDERS END.

BOTH.......happen before the Anti-Christ Conquers the Holy peoples at the 1260 event, which by COMPARISON is only 1260 days until all these wonders end at the Second Coming. 

The AoD thus happens 30 days BEFORE the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Israel/THE MANY. Its the False Prophet (Jewish High Priest) who takes away Jesus Worship from the 1/3 of Jews who REPENT (Zechariah 13:8-9 happens JUST BEFORE the coming DOTL seen in Zechariah 14:1-2), thus he stops Jesus Worship and places an IMAGE (Rev. 13) of the Beast in the Temple 30 days before Jerusalem gets Conquered by this Anti-Christ, who will only then become THE BEAST once he Conquers Jerusalem. This is why the Jews who have ALREADY REPENTED, else they would not know to flee Judea, Flee Judea for the Mountainous area of Petra/Bozrah, they get a 30 day heads up to Flee Judea, REMEMBER, Jesus says do not look back, GO..............well why go if you are leaving as the Anti-Christ is Conquering you ? That makes no sense that SIGN would happen as they were being Conquered. The SIGN comes at the 1290, like Daniel says, which is 30 days BEFORE the 1260. 

The BLESSING thus has to be the Two-witnesses showing up 75 days BEFORE the Anti-Christ conquers Jerusalem and 45 days BEFORE the False Prophet (Jewish High Priest) STOPS Jesus Worship, after the 1/3 Repent, and they REPENT because of the BLESSING in the Two-witnesses that show up. 

On 9/21/2020 at 2:09 PM, iamlamad said:

Next, Jesus does NOT RETURN on the last day of the week. That too is myth. The week will end at the 7th vial, on the 2520th day, when the 7th vial is poured out. All the events of chapters 17 & 18 plus the marriage and supper will take place in heaven before Jesus returns. 

No one cares what day Jesus COMES ON, except you it seems. Rev. 17 is the False Religions being KILLED OFF by the Beast and his Kings or Europe. Rev. 18 is this Whole World (Babylon) being JUDGED over a 42 month period of time. The Marriage in Rev. 19 takes place over a 7 year period, we see the Church/Bride in Rev. 4 and 5 with their White Robes on already. 

On 9/21/2020 at 2:09 PM, iamlamad said:

The AoD happens at the 1290, not the 1260, Daniel 12:11 tells us that, thus it can't be the Beasts doings, except he causes it by asking it of the False Prophet, his right hand man, who will be a Jewish High Priest after the order of Jason.  This is just more imagination. It is the abomination that DIVIDES the week, and the week is divided exactly in half, as the two mentions of the 1260 days proves. In other words, the AofD will happen on the 1260th day of the week. 

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. (NUFF SAID)

On 9/21/2020 at 2:09 PM, iamlamad said:

So, they show up 75 days before the Midway point,   MYTH: they show up 3.5 DAYS before the midpoint.   Their countdown, like the other 4, is for the last half of the week. 

and die 75 days before the Second Coming   No, they die 3.5 days before the end of the week, which is NOT the coming of Christ to Armageddon. 

The DOTL starts at the exact MIDWAY POINT,  Just more myth. We all know the D of the Lord starts at the 6th seal, before any part of the 70th week. 

You are not very good at math, or Prophecy brother. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Revelation Man

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

Trump #4 is the Rev. 8:12 verse above, it matches the Rev. 6:12 verse for a reason, and it matches Trump 1 and Trump 2 and 3 also. The Great Earthquake is the IMPACT felt around the world, the Sun becomes black means the Smoke from 1/3 of the trees burning and all the grasses burning, and from the IMPACT dims the light(s), OF COURSE, that we can see. The moon turns to blood why? Because of the red hue from all the burning trees, it appears to be red, the Sun is so far away its going to get darker, but the sun appears to turn blood red because of all the fires in the skies.. 

The Anti-Christ goes forth Conquering as the asteroid strikes, he uses the strike as a tactical advantage because he's ruthless and evil. Its really simple to understand (after 30 years I understood FINALLY, that's how simple it was...BUT I give it to you freely, that is easier than waiting 30 years, so, ITS SIMPLE....) that the First Four Seals are all the 42 month Rule of the Anti-Christ, AND that the 5th Seal is his Martyrs over the same 42 months. Those under the altar are told specifically that they can not gain VENGEANCE, until ALL THE BROTHERS have been killed in like manner as they have. It's metaphoric in nature, God's/Jesus is telling us all ahead of time, if you die for me during the tribulation period, you will get your vengeance, but only after the Anti-Christ is finished killing and murdering over his 42 month period of rule, he must do what he must do.

I guess you really just don't know. This is all MYTH. It is simple logic and you said so youself, NO trumpet can sound until all seals are opened so that the book can be opened.  What is the first thing read inside the book? Seven angels get seven trumpets. 

Please explain then how any trumpet can come at the time of any seal? It is simply impossible. 

Again your theory is wrong because you pulled it out of its 32 AD context. The truth is, the first 5 seals are the entire church age. 

By the way, trumpet 1  may or may not be an asteroid.  What would burn up all the grass in a huge area and some of the trees? A NUKE.  What does "wormwood" tell us. AGain, NUKES.  You and I both know that as soon as Iran has the ability, it is going to hit Israel with a nuke. When that happens, both the US and Israel will retaliate - with nukes.  Yes, I am guessing. But why would God choose "wormwood" when Chernobyl is wormwood translated to English?

. Those under the altar are told specifically that they can not gain VENGEANCE, until ALL THE BROTHERS have been killed in like manner as they have.  It is NOT a metaphor! They are crying for judgment. (the 6th seal starts judgment). But they are told they have to wait before that 6th seal can start God's judgment How long? Until the final number has come it. Or, until the  very last martyr has been killed. You imagine this is future; the truth is, it started with the first martyr. Stephen was not the first, but without a doubt was in that group. It is truth, martys are STILL HAPPENING in the church age, and will continue until the pretrib rapture ENDS the church age. Then, and only then will judgment begin, with the 6th seal. 

Just a little logic proves this: if they were 70th week martyrs, beheaded, they would KNOW God's judgment had already  started - and would end at the end of 7 years. 

[iamlamad]

Just now, Revelation Man said:

1. The Man of Sin does not put forth the AoD, its done at the 1290 and the Anti-Christ doesn't Conquer Jerusalem until the 1260. But, if you can't get the Seals right, its a very, very, very LONG SHOT you will ever get the timing of the AoD sorted out brother. So both have earthly "OFFICES" of 1260 days on earth, as THE BEAST and as the TWO-WITNESSES, and you think the Two-witnesses show up 3.5 days BEFORE the Beast and thus once they die and are raised 3.5 days later it ALL ENDS, when  the 7 Vials have not even been poured out yet. That makes absolutely no sense as per the timings brother. The AoD happens 30 days before the Anti-Christ becomes THE BEAST, the AoD is the False Prophet (Jewish High Priest) placing the IMAGE of the Beast in the Temple. (P.S. if the Two-witnesses show up only 3.5 days BEFORE the Beast, I will show below, what must needs be the timing, BUT of course its not.......This is YOUR TIMING BELOW:

Two-Witnesses show u 3.5 days before The Beast........................................................The Beast Conquers Jerusalem/Israel/MANY. 

So, they are on the scene according to you at the 1263.5 Mark............................The Beast of course shows up at the 1260 Mark.

If the Two-witnesses die  3.5 days before they ARISE, that means that 3.5 days later, according to the 1260 day rule of the Beast (that's his LIMIT) the Beast must DIE and be cast into hell by Jesus. There is no IFFS, ANDS or MAYBES, it all would have to end 3.5 days later, because BOTH have ONLY 1260 days via their EARTJLY OFFICES. I have been trying to tell you for a couple of years, there is only one reason we are given these 1260 day timelines, se we, God's people, can JUXTAPOSE them against each other and get our bearings, like the North Star. God did not need the Two-witnesses tom DIE, He could have just raptured them to heaven, LOL, its 1260 days so you and I can understand all the other TIMELINES Juxtaposed against the Beasts timeline that runs from the 1260 Conquering of Jerusalem until Jesus returns. Thus the only way you can be right (and you are not right) is if all the 7 Vials took 3.5 days, LOL. COME ON MAN !!

Its SIMPLE MATH man !!

How can anyone make something so simple into something difficult? Oh! It makes someone look better in their own eyes.

First, some basics:

ALL FIVE mentions of the 3 1/2 year period of time given  in Revelation are for the LAST HALF of the week.

11:1-2  The man of sin enters Jerusalem to make it his home. He HAS to be in Jerusalem to enter the temple in Jerusalem. 
11:3  The two witnesses suddenly SHOW UP - that come here because the man of sin just came

These two mentions of  the 3.5 year period of time prove chapter 11:1 is very close to the division point.  Both of these countdowns will start slightly before the division point.

12:6  The woman begins to flee: perhaps 2 seconds after the abomination that will divide the week. 
12:14: the woman gets supernatural Protection for time, times and half of time.

These two countdowns begin just after the division point, but only just. Again these prove chapter 12 to be a midpoint chapter.
 

13:5  42 months of authority  this coundown starts last so will end last. We see that in Revelation: the week ends at the 7th vial, but it is some unknown time later before Jesus returns. 

Did you ever notice? 11:2 shows that John is very near the midpoint of the week and the countdown of trampling will begin.
11:3 shows the 1260 days of testifying, this countdown probably starting a second or to after the 42 months. Again, these countdowns prove John is very close to the midpoint. 

Oh OH! John takes the readers down the last half of the week with the two witnesses all in chapter 11! So is the week over in chapter 12?  No, because another countdown begins in chapter 12, proving chapter 12 is a midpoint chapter. 

Some people solve this dilemma by moving the start of the Two witnesses to the start of the week. NO, that is wrong and not the intent of the Author.  They begin right where John saw them and wrote. Others solve this by starting a parenthesis in chapter 10 and taking it all the way to 11:14. That is not right either.

The truth is, verses 11:4 through 11:13 are written as a parenthesis. So the death of the Two Witnesses is written in chapter 11 but really happens in chapter 16 where the week ends. 

The Man of Sin does not put forth the AoD, its done at the 1290   Why is it you know better than John? He wrote the book!

According to Dan. 9:27 what ever event causes the daily sacrifices to stop is the event that divides the week into TWO EQUAL halves. So forget your 1290: that is a myth. It is 1260 days -> ABOMINATION -> 1260 days.

Since they flee in 12:6, and were told to flee the INSTANT they see the abomination, then the abomination will be seconds before verse 12:6. 

Did you just not read this verse?

2 Thes. 2:⁴ Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Look, if ANYONE other than the high priest enters the Holy of Holies - the temple has been desecrated and would have to be cleansed before any more sacrifices are done. But the Beast will not allow that. He will make the Holy of Holies his office! 

So when the man of sin enters the holy of Holies, without a doubt recorded on video, those in Judea flee. And it will happen in day 1260. It is what divides the week. 

if you can't get the Seals right, its a very, very, very LONG SHOT you will ever get the timing of the AoD sorted out brother.  You are talking about yourself again. It needs no sorting: we KNOW from scripture the abomination divides the week: 1260 / 1260. Sorry, no 1290 in the 70th week. That is myth. 

So both have earthly "OFFICES" of 1260 days on earth, as THE BEAST and as the TWO-WITNESSES,   I would not have said "offices" but we can go with that.  And it is not 100% accurate anyway. The two witnesses get 1260 days but the Beast gets 42 months. Why not say it like John said it? We agree on this time frame, I think, but these two periods of time do not start at the same time. The witnessing will start days, perhaps weeks before the 42 months. This is also proven in Revelation: the week ends at the 7th vial, but Jesus does not return to catch the Beast until chapter 19.  There will be TIME between the 7th vial and Jesus return.

you think the Two-witnesses show up 3.5 days BEFORE the Beast and thus once they die and are raised 3.5 days later it ALL ENDS, when  the 7 Vials have not even been poured out yet  you still don't get it: I "got it" before you did, for you still haven't. I have written in over and over, but you miss it. I think because you imagine it is wrong so you plan your answer instead of studying what I wrote. Let's try it again.

3 1/2 days before the abomination (the man of sin entering the temple  - day 1260) the two witnesses show up and begin their ministry of 1260 days. (3.5 days later  - the abomination that divides the week).  (Verses 11;4-11:13 don't count in chronology, so for now, skip over them.)

They will testify for their allotted 1260 days - which will take them to just 3 1/2 days before the END of the week, when they are killed. They lay dead those 3.5 days, and then are resurrected WITH ALL the Old Testament saints - at the 7th vial that ends the week. so they GOT their 1260 days. 

3.5 days BEFORE the Beast  I would say 3.5 days before the abomination or the division point of teh week: day 1260. 

That makes absolutely no sense as per the timings brother. Because you have not understood what I write. Are you going to be of the group that moves the two witnesses to the first half of the week? Please tell me no!

The AoD happens 30 days before the Anti-Christ becomes THE BEAST,  This is not true, but please show us HOW you come to this idea. Then I can show you why it is error. It is true, he does not become the beast at the moment He declares to be god - the moment of the abomination. It will be the 7th trumpet marking the abomination that will send Michael to go to war with Satan. I don't think it will take long. It will be Satan possessing the man of sin that will cause Him to turn BEAST. So very shortly after the war, John saw the Beast rising. 

the AoD is the False Prophet (Jewish High Priest) placing the IMAGE of the Beast in the Temple.   Please show us where the FP does the abomination. I have never seen that scripture.  the REAL AoD will be the man of sin entered the most holy place in the temple - marked by the 7th trumpet. Mind you, if you can prove this by scripture, I will change my mind. 

Two-Witnesses show u 3.5 days before The Beast..........  Close but not cigar: they show us just before the man of sin enters the temple and abominates. @ (trademark: I invented a word)

..The Beast Conquers Jerusalem/Israel/MANY.   WHEN? They will still be fighting in Jerusalem at the end of the week! His first goal will be to deceive the WORLD. It will not be until late in the week when the devil sends out the demons to gather the nations. 

So, they are on the scene according to you at the 1263.5 Mark.........The Beast of course shows up at the 1260 Mark. I knew you did not understand. They show up 3.5 days before the division point: 1260 / 1260  so they would show up on day 1256.5 so 3.5 days out of their 1260 days will be in the first half. Then 1256.5 days will be taken out of the LAST 1260 days. 

If the Two-witnesses die  3.5 days before they ARISE It is truth. They die just 3.5 days before the 7th vial that ends the week. 

that means that 3.5 days later, according to the 1260 day rule of the Beast (that's his LIMIT) the Beast must DIE and be cast into hell by Jesus.  You MISSED something along the way: the Beast's 42 months START LAST - so they END LAST.  

The 42 months of trampling and the 1260 days of testifying start before the midpoint so end before the end of the week.
The 1260 days of fleeing and the 3.5 years of protection will end  at the 7th vial that ends the week. 
The 42 months of authority keeps right on happened through the events of chapters 17, 18 and most of 19 - but they end when Jesus descends.  Here is where the 1290 days MIGHT come into play: the marriage and supper in heaven may just take 30 days before Jesus descends.  the 1290th day may be His return. This argument fails. 

There is no IFFS, ANDS or MAYBES  Agreed! See, there IS something we agree on. What you missed is that there is TIME between the 126o days countdown of fleeing and the 42 months countdown of authority. You know, it is just might be possible the 42 months of authority will not equal 1260 days; it may be a day or two off.  Therefore it would be wise to count the authority as 42 months - the way John did 

because BOTH have ONLY 1260 days via their EARTJLY OFFICES.  Yes, but one starts AFTER the other and will END after the other. 
This argument fails. 

the Beasts timeline that runs from the 1260 Conquering of Jerusalem until Jesus returns.  You still have to prove this conquering by scripture. 

As it turns out, every argument of yours fails under scrutiny.