The wrath of the lamb versus the wrath of God.

[luigi]

In Revelation 6 the Lord opens the first 6 of seven seals that concludes with everyone on earth hiding themselves, and wishing themselves dead, in order to hide from the face of God, and from Christ's wrath, which has arrived. During this period in which the wrath of the lamb has arrived, four angels restrain the winds from blowing on the earth, and are told to keep the earth from being damaged until the Lords servants are sealed with the Lords seal of truth. Once the sealing of truth is complete throughout the earth in Revelation 7, the seventh seal is then opened in Revelation 8:1, whereupon in which chapter, four angels sound, and 1/3 of earth's environmental resources is destroyed. At the end of the chapter an angel flying in the midst of heaven declares in a loud voice, Woe, Woe, Woe, by reason of the last three angels who are yet to sound. The first of these last three woes is that of a star who falls from heaven who is given the key to the bottomless pit and opens it. It is from this bottomless pit from which the beast of seven heads and ten horns shall ascend according to the angel in Revelation 17:8, thereby indicating the bottomless pit from which the beast shall ascend being another description for the sea from which the beast shall ascend in Revelation 13. Skipping through various details about the beast; the Lord will at some point during the beast's 42 month reign commence His wrath upon the beasts kingdom and those who worship the beast and his image. This wrath of the Lord God Omnipotent upon the beasts worshippers appears in Revelation 11:18-19, and Revelation 16:18 & 21, where there are voices, and thunders, and lightnings, a great earthquake, and great hail. In contrast to the Father's wrath upon the beasts worshippers in which earth's entire environmental resources are destroyed in Revelation 16, the lamb's wrath under the sixth seal, while describing a great earthquake occurring, does not include  the voices, the lightnings, the thunderings, and great hail, as do the wrath descriptions in Revelation 11 & 16.  As such, the wrath of the Lamb under the sixth seal would appear to precede the more dire wrath of the Father at the conclusion of the beast 42 month reign in chapter 16.

I would also speculate that the lambs wrath commencing under the 6th seal represents the commencing of the day of the Lord that appears throughout the bible. 

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Revelation 16:18  And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

Revelation 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, luigi said:

In Revelation 6 the Lord opens the first 6 of seven seals that concludes with everyone on earth hiding themselves, and wishing themselves dead, in order to hide from the face of God, and from Christ's wrath, which has arrived. During this period in which the wrath of the lamb has arrived, four angels restrain the winds from blowing on the earth, and are told to keep the earth from being damaged until the Lords servants are sealed with the Lords seal of truth. Once the sealing of truth is complete throughout the earth in Revelation 7, the seventh seal is then opened in Revelation 8:1, whereupon in which chapter, four angels sound, and 1/3 of earth's environmental resources is destroyed. At the end of the chapter an angel flying in the midst of heaven declares in a loud voice, Woe, Woe, Woe, by reason of the last three angels who are yet to sound. The first of these last three woes is that of a star who falls from heaven who is given the key to the bottomless pit and opens it. It is from this bottomless pit from which the beast of seven heads and ten horns shall ascend according to the angel in Revelation 17:8, thereby indicating the bottomless pit from which the beast shall ascend being another description for the sea from which the beast shall ascend in Revelation 13. Skipping through various details about the beast; the Lord will at some point during the beast's 42 month reign commence His wrath upon the beasts kingdom and those who worship the beast and his image. This wrath of the Lord God Omnipotent upon the beasts worshippers appears in Revelation 11:18-19, and Revelation 16:18 & 21, where there are voices, and thunders, and lightnings, a great earthquake, and great hail. In contrast to the Father's wrath upon the beasts worshippers in which earth's entire environmental resources are destroyed in Revelation 16, the lamb's wrath under the sixth seal, while describing a great earthquake occurring, does not include  the voices, the lightnings, the thunderings, and great hail, as do the wrath descriptions in Revelation 11 & 16.  As such, the wrath of the Lamb under the sixth seal would appear to precede the more dire wrath of the Father at the conclusion of the beast 42 month reign in chapter 16.

I would also speculate that the lambs wrath commencing under the 6th seal represents the commencing of the day of the Lord that appears throughout the bible. 

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Revelation 16:18  And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

Revelation 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

the Lords seal of truth.  Why not just take John at His word, backed up by the Holy Spirit? I searched for the word "truth" and it was not found anywhere in Revelation. Yes, they are sealed. On that I agree. But did you not read?

Rev. 14:And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

They are sealed with the Father's name. Would that be YHWH or Jehovah? I find nothing about a seal of truth. I cannot find "seal of truth" anywhere in the KJV. 

thereby indicating the bottomless pit from which the beast shall ascend being another description for the sea from which the beast shall ascend in Revelation 13.  This is GUESSING! There is no scripture tying these two together. Why try to put them together when John has them separated? The bottomless pit is opened some time in the first half of the week. The Beast rising from the waters was seen rising after the midpoint of the week. You forgot TIME.

I would also speculate that the lambs wrath commencing under the 6th seal represents the commencing of the day of the Lord that appears throughout the bible.   I see no need to speculate: I think John makes it clear: the Day of the Lord or the Day of His wrath begins at the 6th seal. 

Just speculating, but it would seem, since we are talking ONE GOD, that when the SON is angry, so is the Father - and vice versa.

Edited September 16, 2020 by iamlamad

[luigi]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

the Lords seal of truth.  Why not just take John at His word, backed up by the Holy Spirit? I searched for the word "truth" and it was not found anywhere in Revelation. Yes, they are sealed. On that I agree. But did you not read?

Rev. 14:And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

They are sealed with the Father's name. Would that be YHWH or Jehovah? I find nothing about a seal of truth. I cannot find "seal of truth" anywhere in the KJV. 

thereby indicating the bottomless pit from which the beast shall ascend being another description for the sea from which the beast shall ascend in Revelation 13.  This is GUESSING! There is no scripture tying these two together. Why try to put them together when John has them separated? The bottomless pit is opened some time in the first half of the week. The Beast rising from the waters was seen rising after the midpoint of the week. You forgot TIME.

I would also speculate that the lambs wrath commencing under the 6th seal represents the commencing of the day of the Lord that appears throughout the bible.   I see no need to speculate: I think John makes it clear: the Day of the Lord or the Day of His wrath begins at the 6th seal. 

Just speculating, but it would seem, since we are talking ONE GOD, that when the SON is angry, so is the Father - and vice versa.

The Lords seal of truth is a few steps above the kindergarten perspectives the vast majority have here on the end times. You have to put several pieces of the puzzle together to understand what God's seal is, which is truth that people will either accept or reject.

If we understand that those individuals who will worship the beast will voluntarily reject the truth so that they may continue to take pleasure in their sins; there is then a period of time prior to rejecting the truth that all the world will be made aware of the truth that brings about the plagues in Revelation chapters 8 & 9, which are also the dire social and environmental depictions in the Olivet discourse.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

[luigi]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/16/climate/wildfires-globally.html?campaign_id=54&emc=edit_clim_20200916&instance_id=22249&nl=climate-fwd%3A&regi_id=79545512&segment_id=38292&te=1&user_id=c3e6dc9d216bb4211d7533c156b4af94

 

In the link above is a little truth, which many continue to deny is caused by man's love for the things fossil fuels produce, which is also that which is depicted by the first angels sounding in Revelation 8.

[Revelation Man]

12 hours ago, luigi said:

In Revelation 6 the Lord opens the first 6 of seven seals that concludes with everyone on earth hiding themselves, and wishing themselves dead, in order to hide from the face of God, and from Christ's wrath, which has arrived. During this period in which the wrath of the lamb has arrived, four angels restrain the winds from blowing on the earth, and are told to keep the earth from being damaged until the Lords servants are sealed with the Lords seal of truth.

Firstly, the Wrath has not yet arrived when the Seals are opened one by one, the Seals are on a BOOK of Judgments that need to be opened in full, all 7 have to be opened before you can read the Judgments therein.

Rev. 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. 2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

Or, who is able to lose the Seals AND open the book in our modern lingo. So, Jesus the Lamb is Worthy to open this book of Judgment, but it has 7 Seals/Locks on it. Every Seal/Lock that Jesus takes off, he prophesies about what is coming on the Day of the Lord (God's/Jesus' Wrath, because of course they are one in Spirit). So the Wrath HAS NOT ARRIVED, via the Seals being opened !! Jesus is pointing toward what is just around the corner when the Trumps bring the Wrath of God. 

Seal 1, 2, 3 and 4 all point to the Anti-Christ/Beasts rule over mankind for 42-months. He Conquers, Brings War/takes away Peace, his wars bring Famine and his Wars and tyrannical rule brings Death and Sickness. All four of these happen over 42 months, so Jesus SAYS, here is what is about to befall mankind when he opens each of the first four Seal, (BUT ONLY, when the DOTL/First Trump arrives). The 5th Seal is likewise about the coming Anti-Christ/Beasts rule on earth, its all the Martyrs of his 42 month rule of tyranny. 

The 6th Seal is Jesus announcing that God's Wrath/Jesus' Wrath, is about to befall mankind via an ASTEROID STRIKE as we see described in Joel 2:31 and here in Rev. 6, it happens with the First Four Trumpet Judgments, which are all ONE EVENT, an Asteroid Strike. So, why does Jesus give us the first 5 Seals at the same time as the 6th Seal? Because the Anti-Christ/Beast is going to use the Asteroid Strike, which of course brings chaos to the world, as COVER to go forth Conquering, he sees a tactical advantage, the Dark Sentences of Daniel 8 refers to him gaining inspiration from Satan/Demons/Spiritual world. 

Seal 7 Begins the Wrath of God because it brings forth the 7 Angels to sound the Seven Trumpet Judgments. The 144,000 that are Sealed in the forehead are the Jews that Jesus told to Flee Judea when they see the AoD, thus they need to be Protected by God from this coming Wrath, thus they flee to the Petra/Bozrah Mountainous area.  The 4 Angels do not BRING the Judgments (hold back the Winds means hold back God's ACTION/Wrath) until Israel makes it to their SAFE ZONE. That is why it says HURT NOT, the Trees, Earth nor Seas until they are Sealed. Well, what does the Trumpet Judgments HURT in Rev. 8 ? The Trees, Seas and the Earth !! This is the same event as Rev. 18:4 where God says COME OUT OF HER, my people, lest you partake of her sins and plagues. Psstt, God is calling Israel to flee Judea there also, its the exact same event. I have no problem with SEALED with the Truth, because Jesus' Blood is THE TRUTH, its just Semantics. 

12 hours ago, luigi said:

During this period in which the wrath of the lamb has arrived, four angels restrain the winds from blowing on the earth, and are told to keep the earth from being damaged until the Lords servants are sealed with the Lords seal of truth. Once the sealing of truth is complete throughout the earth in Revelation 7, the seventh seal is then opened in Revelation 8:1, whereupon in which chapter, four angels sound, and 1/3 of earth's environmental resources is destroyed. At the end of the chapter an angel flying in the midst of heaven declares in a loud voice, Woe, Woe, Woe, by reason of the last three angels who are yet to sound.

In reality, the 1/3 is referencing what Area will be hit. The Pacific Ocean covers 1/3 of all the Waters on Earth. And North and South America covers 1/3 of the total Landmass on earth. So, what its saying is the Pacific Ocean and the Americas will get hit with this asteroid, but it will in essence effect the whole worlds skies via the Sun and Moon getting dark. Smoke/air travels around the globe. The Last Three Trumps are the THREE WOES. Thus the 7th Trump is the 3rd Woe, thus the 7 Vials in total = the 3rd Woe.

12 hours ago, luigi said:

The first of these last three woes is that of a star who falls from heaven who is given the key to the bottomless pit and opens it. It is from this bottomless pit from which the beast of seven heads and ten horns shall ascend according to the angel in Revelation 17:8, thereby indicating the bottomless pit from which the beast shall ascend being another description for the sea from which the beast shall ascend in Revelation 13.

An Angel (For Judgments sake) opens the bottomless pit. The Beast there is Apollyon, HE IS NOT the Rev. 13 Beast, that is a MAN, the Anti-Christ/Little Horn. Daniel 7:11 tells us its a MAN with a MOUTH whose BODY gets Destroyed and then he is cast into HELL. Rev. 12 is the Beast/Dragon/Satan. Rev. 17 is Apollyon. You are conflating them.

The rest is covered in the ABOVE. 

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Revelation Man

[luigi]

25 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Firstly, the Wrath has not yet arrived, the Seals are on a BOOK of Judgments that need to be opened. 

Rev. 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. 2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

Or, who is able to lose the Seals AND open the book in our modern lingo. So, Jesus the Lamb is Worthy to open this book of Judgment, but it has 7 Seals/Locks on it. Every Seal/Lock that Jesus takes off, he prophesies about what is coming on the Day of the Lord (God's/Jesus/ Wrath, because of course they are one). So the Wrath HAS NOT ARRIVED, via the Seals being opened !! Jesus is pointing toward what is just around the corner when the Trumps bring the Wrath of God. 

Seal 1, 2, 3 and 4 all point to the Anti-Christ/Beasts rule over mankind for 42-months. He Conquers, Brings War/takes away Peace, his wars bring Famine and his Wars and tyrannical rule brings Death and Sickness. All four of these happen over 42 months, so Jesus SAYS, he is what is about to befall mankind when he opens each of the first four Seal, (BUT ONLY, when the DOTL/First Trump arrives. The 5th Seal is likewise about the coming Anti-Christ/Beasts rule on earth, its all the Martyrs of his 42 month rule of tyranny. 

The 6th Seal is Jesus announcing that God's Wrath/Jesus' Wrath, is about to befall mankind via an ASTEROID STRIKE as we see described in Joel 2:31 and here in Rev. 6, it happens with the First Four Trumpet Judgments, which are all ONE EVENT, an Asteroid Strike. So, why does Jesus give us the first 5 Seals at the same time as the 6th Seal? Because the Anti-Christ/Beast is going to use the Asteroid Strike, which of course brings chaos to the world, as COVER to go forth Conquering, he sees a tactical advantage, the Dark Sentences of Daniel 8 refers to him gaining inspiration from Satan/Demons/Spiritual world. 

Seal 7 Begins the Wrath of God because it brings forth the 7 Angels to sound the Seven Trumpet Judgments. The 144,000 that are Sealed in the forehead are the Jews that Jesus told to Flee Judea when they see the AoD, thus they need to be Protected by God from this coming Wrath, thus they flee to the Petra/Bozrah Mountainous area.  The 4 Angels do not BRING the Judgments (hold back the Winds means hold back God's ACTION/Wrath) until Israel makes it to their SAFE ZONE. That is why it says HURT NOT, the Trees, Earth nor Seas until they are Sealed. Well, what does the Trumpet Judgments HURT in Rev. 8 ? The Trees, Seas and the Earth !! This is the same even as Rev. 18:4 where God says COME OUT OF HER, my people, lest you partake of her sins and plagues. Psstt, God is calling Israel to flee Judea there also, its the exact same event. I have no prob;em with SEALED with the Truth, because Jesus Blood is THE TRUTH, its just Semantics. 

In reality, the 1/3 is referencing what Area will be hit. The Pacific Ocean covers 1/3 of all the Waters on Earth. And North and South America covers 1/3 of the total Landmass on earth. So, what its saying is the Pacific Ocean and the Americas will get hit with this asteroid, but it will in essence effect the whole worlds skies via the Sun and Moon getting dark. Smoke/air travels around the globe. The Last Three Trumps are the THREE WOES. Thus the 7th Trump is the 3rd Woe, thus the 7 Vials in total = the 3rd Woe.

An Angel (For Judgments sake) opens the bottomless pit. The Beast there is Apollyon, HE IS NOT the Rev. 13 Beast, that is a MAN, the Anti-Christ/Little Horn. Daniel 7:11 tells us its a MAN with a MOUTH whose BODY gets Destroyed and then he is cast into HELL. Rev. 12 is the Beast/Dragon/Satan. Rev. 17 is Apollyon. You are conflating them.

The rest is covered in the ABOVE. 

 

The dragon, the beast, and the beasts mouth (a.k.a., the Antichrist) are not around until after the seventh seal is opened, and then not until the fifth of seven angels who sound, sound.

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, luigi said:

The Lords seal of truth is a few steps above the kindergarten perspectives the vast majority have here on the end times. You have to put several pieces of the puzzle together to understand what God's seal is, which is truth that people will either accept or reject.

If we understand that those individuals who will worship the beast will voluntarily reject the truth so that they may continue to take pleasure in their sins; there is then a period of time prior to rejecting the truth that all the world will be made aware of the truth that brings about the plagues in Revelation chapters 8 & 9, which are also the dire social and environmental depictions in the Olivet discourse.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Just show us a scripture on this "seal of truth." If it is just above kindergarten level, there should be a verse. Otherwise, it is imagination. 

The people that will accept the big lie: that the man of sin turned Beast really is "God," are the same people today who have all their life rejected Jesus Christ.  

As John wrote in His epistles, the truth for the end times is "THE FATHER AND THE SON." Many imagine they can have the Father without the Son. They are very mistaken and will accept the big lie. John said, if you reject the SON, then you have rejected the Father also. 

I have never understood why people will have nothing to do with Jesus. I thank God, I was born with enough  common sense to know I needed a savior!

[luigi]

18 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Just show us a scripture on this "seal of truth." If it is just above kindergarten level, there should be a verse. Otherwise, it is imagination. 

The people that will accept the big lie: that the man of sin turned Beast really is "God," are the same people today who have all their life rejected Jesus Christ.  

As John wrote in His epistles, the truth for the end times is "THE FATHER AND THE SON." Many imagine they can have the Father without the Son. They are very mistaken and will accept the big lie. John said, if you reject the SON, then you have rejected the Father also. 

I have never understood why people will have nothing to do with Jesus. I thank God, I was born with enough  common sense to know I needed a savior!

I just did with 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12, but you just can't add it up.

[iamlamad]

29 minutes ago, luigi said:

I just did with 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12, but you just can't add it up.

If you had said, "I am coining a new phrase not found in the scriptures" perhaps I could have added. 

¹⁰ And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

¹¹ And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

¹² That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I see here "deceivableness, "then received not the love of the truth" (that Jesus saves), and "that they all might be damned who believe not the truth (that Jesus saves - that He, Jesus is the Only doorway into heaven). 

What I see then is that you are MAKING Up "seal." Why I can't imagine. 

[Revelation Man]

15 hours ago, luigi said:

The dragon, the beast, and the beasts mouth (a.k.a., the Antichrist) are not around until after the seventh seal is opened, and then not until the fifth of seven angels who sound, sound.

Wrong, the Anti-Christ is a human being who is a President (in the E.U.) for years before he CONQUERS to become THE BEAST. The Beast simply means a King that Conquers the whole Mediterranean Sea Region, go look at the Beasts in Daniel, they were all MEN/Kings who created an eventual KINGDOM BEAST. Daniel 7 says so.......

Dan. 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

The only difference in the 5th King to come is he never passes his Kingdom on, he rules but 42 months then Jesus casts him into Hell, so in the End Times, THE BEAST is ONE MAN. 

The Beast rules for 42 months, he goes forth on the DOTL  (Rev. 8 Trumpet/Asteroid Strike). The Dragon is cast down an chases the Woman (Israel for 42 months). The 5th Angel is the 1st Woe, that is Apollyon, not a man, not Satan. That is why they have different names and are shown to have different credentials. Red Dragon is not the Scarlet Colored Beast..........the MAN (666) in Rev. 13 Conquers Jerusalem, hes not a Demon. That is why he has CROWNS on the 10 Kings (Europe). 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Revelation Man