Is America Under Judgement?

[Coliseum]

6 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Let's look at that, John. What is the context of the Luke 12:48 text? Is not the context Messianic? Is it soteriological or eschatological? Do you know the difference?

 

In reference to James, what is Cahn is the bad teacher? Is he not presuming to teach and thereby bringing greater responsibility upon himself and placing himself under a "stricter judgment"? Do you read any awareness he's aware of or consciously and conscientiously practicing what James wrote?

Yes, and clearly that is evidence of blessing, not judgment! So why then does Cahn and folks like him not treat God's blessing for what it is and choose instead to vilify the country? Do you know what scripture says about those who call good evil, who substitute sweetness for bitterness and light for darkness?

Why do you say a person vilifies a place by merely acknowledging the truth of what he sees? Is not the expression "good evil" when we have, and are witnessing things which have not ever happened in my generation: In the 50's, people left their doors unlocked. There was trust between neighbors. People were left to their consciences to decide what was right and what was wrong. Universities were built from teachers who actually taught instead of condemned Godly principles and values, where political upheaval, uprisings, violence, mayhem, and murder were unseen, where journalists and news casters reported news without sensationalism. People understood what it meant to work for what they got instead of steal. Yes, these ideals are relative, but so was every century before us. This kind of culture where men were men and women were women, where children could play safely in the streets, where I could hug my different-colored skinned neighbor without hatred, where my religion and faith went unprotested. No one is vilifying what is true here---merely expressing the evidence of what has changed. Those are observable, objective, verifiable facts. 

In my opinion, every man is entitled to see what he sees and report it without having to be labelled or categorized as villainous. 

You shared, "Do you know what scripture says about those who call good evil, who substitute sweetness for bitterness and light for darkness"? Perhaps you view it that way; perhaps others don't. Where such things are unclear, God says He would make clear. That does not vilify someone. God also says to be wise, to watch, to pray. Jesus forecasts what we are to see and experience. To me at least, these things which are coming, and may be here even now, are evil. They are not to be delighted in, but cause us to be humbled, and thankful for what God has not taken away; if those are blessings, then we need more of them because our country is slowly losing them. That is not some obscure observation, nor should it vilify anyone who notices them.

If I have misunderstood your argument, I apologize. Please unpack what you mean then. Thank you.

Expressing the goodness of God, His many blessings, and our thankfulness for them does not negate what is happening. 

[JohnR7]

10 minutes ago, Chicken coop2 said:

She is not American. 

oh ok

Edited September 24, 2020 by JohnR7

[JohnR7]

9 minutes ago, Chicken coop2 said:

Leah777 is not American. 

Oh, ok.

Edited September 24, 2020 by JohnR7

[JohnR7]

3 minutes ago, Chicken coop2 said:

She is not 

ok I will edit it and put her on ignore if that will make you happy. I am making a LOT of effort to answer her many questions and you want to be critical of my effort to comply with her requests. 

3 minutes ago, Chicken coop2 said:

 

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by JohnR7

[David1701]

57 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Let's look at that, John. What is the context of the Luke 12:48 text? Is not the context Messianic? Is it soteriological or eschatological? Do you know the difference?

 

In reference to James, what is Cahn is the bad teacher? Is he not presuming to teach and thereby bringing greater responsibility upon himself and placing himself under a "stricter judgment"? Do you read any awareness he's aware of or consciously and conscientiously practicing what James wrote?

Yes, and clearly that is evidence of blessing, not judgment! So why then does Cahn and folks like him not treat God's blessing for what it is and choose instead to vilify the country? Do you know what scripture says about those who call good evil, who substitute sweetness for bitterness and light for darkness?

Josheb, I've listened to quite a lot of what Jonathan Cahn says.  I don't agree with Dispensationalism, but I do think that Cahn has many insights from the Lord and that he is a godly man.  I would recommend you to listen to a few of his youtube videos, then make a preliminary assessment.

[JohnR7]

4 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

a global population of less than 500 million.

Isn't that what we have been - only a remnant will survive to repopulate the earth for the next 1,000 years? My problem is: who is worthy? I do not think I am and yet I am still alive and pretty much have lived my life out. 

[leah777]

31 minutes ago, JohnR7 said:

ok I will edit it and put her on ignore if that will make you happy. I am making a LOT of effort to answer her many questions and you want to be critical of my effort to comply with her requests. 

 

I am not American. I am not anti American. I am asking reasonable questions, which are not being answered. 

Neither am I racist. You do not know what colour I am.

[David1701]

15 minutes ago, Josheb said:

I do not doubt Cahn's conversion, salvation or eternal disposition. Dispensationalists can and do teach well but their eschatology is wrong and to the degree that Darbyism influences their formal Theology, their Christology, their soteriology, and their ecclesiology it too is wrong. 

 

For example: few Dispensationalists, teacher or student, realizes the two-state division between Israel and the Church creates a works-based soteriology! 

That's just wrong. 

That doesn't happen to be the specific topic of this op but that is one of the oft-ignored truths of Cahn's Dispensationalism. Does it mean he lacks insight from God? No. Does it mean he is not a godly man? No! Does it mean he has his "judgment of America" wrong? In this case it does and I am not alone in making the case for his error. 

 

And if those Christians who spent all this time fretting over America's judgment stopped fretting, stopped buying into those teachings, stopped teaching that disparagement and got to work doing that for which they were saved this country would look a lot less judged! So it's one of these situations in which the teaching of a problem creates the problem. And... as another poster besides me pointed out this can all be traced back to the influence of a single individual who was greatly resisted in his day: John Darby. 

I have not noticed any of Darby's Dispensationalism, in the videos of Cahn's that I have watched.  I have also not noticed an attitude of disparagement; rather, one of loving concern and a desire for the blessing of God and revival.

Cahn is a Messianic Jewish pastor, who has a number of Gentiles in his congregation.  He teaches, correctly, that saved Gentiles are grafted into spiritual Israel.

[Walter and Deborah]

On 9/21/2020 at 12:33 PM, JohnR7 said:

 Jonathan Cahn just came out with a new book this month. I have only read a few chapters but the theme of the book seems to be that America is under judgement and that is why we are seeing a lot of the problems we are dealing with. Fires, the virus, civil unrest and so on. He seems to be saying that God does not want to judge this nation but we do not give Him any choice. I did not really expect that this is what the book was about. Actually for a lot of years we have been fighting against abortion and a lot of the things God is judging us for.  Although God does seem to be blessing those who walk with Him. 

The above seems to be as warnings, but No Sir I don't think that America is under judgement, and yes we are being judged out of the books written as Jesus have said.

We have heard about Jonathan Cahn, we will try and look at or get his latest book about this issue, thanks.

What makes a nation under judgement?

 

Love, Walter

Edited September 24, 2020 by Walter and Deborah
More info.

[Dennis1209]

18 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

Isn't that what we have been - only a remnant will survive to repopulate the earth for the next 1,000 years? My problem is: who is worthy? I do not think I am and yet I am still alive and pretty much have lived my life out. 

The following is all from memory, and at my age and intelligence could be flawed and incorrect but, this is how I remember it.

From the time of Jesus, the global population has been cyclic; due to famine, sanitization, pestilence, war and other factors. As I recall, for about 1,800 years after the Cross, the earths population remained linear, with +/- one billion people on earth roughly. During this roughly 1,800 years most people grew their own food, cattle and bartered. A large percentage of the population was involved in food, one way or another. 

During the industrial age and the introduction of machinery and fossil fuels, more food could be produced by less people more efficient. Charting and graphing it out, we see an exponential vertical swing upward with all that food being produced because of technology, machinery and fossil fuels. Today the global population has grown to roughly 8 billion people; with only about 2% of the population involved in the food growing, raising and delivery system. 

What happens if: The long term effects of GMO products is realized and it's too late. The fossil fuel spigot is turned off for whatever reason? An EMP attack, solar coronal mass ejection or severe solar flare strikes earth and the associated loss of the electrical grid, transportation and electronics? Unforseen drought, pertilance, hail, wildfires, etc.? Cities not receiving food deliveries because it's too dangerous to the transportation drivers to deliver it? Our system is a just in time delivery system, and a fragile system at that. There sure is a whole lot of "what if's" going on these days that I never even thought about that's currently effecting us one way or another. 

As far as who will be worthy to enter the millennium after the tribulation? I'm a pre-tribulationist, with my firm conviction we will escape "from" that hour of testing; I don't concern myself with it. My spiritual thoughts are: Yes, there will only be a small remnant left alive after the tribulation; I'm thinking 1/3 of the population of the Jew's of the time, and have no idea of the number of gentiles? We see from biblical accounts and the book of Revelation, people in the tribulation will multiply at an exponential rate. Their longevity will be comparable to the antidevillian period, someone dying at 100 will be considered a babe. 

It's my current understanding those nations allowed to enter the millennium, will be based on how they treated Israel. Again, it's been awhile since I've studied all this and the ole memory a'int what it use to be; and my thoughts may or may not be accurate.