I Wasn't A Liberal Until I Join Worthy

[Speks]

3 hours ago, NotAllThere said:

I'll summerise what I wrote above: it depends what you mean by liberal. 

Thanks, NotAllThere.

I may have gone off on a tangent here in a way. It may seem pedantic of me to wonder about the viability (and dangers) of creating 'liberal' versions of scriptural definitions, such as:

the Gospel and Salvation, Christ's resurrection and victory over the grave, the nature of faith, godliness, purity and sanctification, sexuality, prayer, walking in the Spirit, God's discipline and wrath and punishment, inspiration, church order and religious practice, the devil and demons, miracles... And so on.

So, at what point do liberal interpretations and viewpoints become a harmful dilution of the robust fullness of biblical teaching? When are they a delusional distortion of God's revelation? (Where would these dilutions and distortions ultimately originate?)

I'm just kinda thinking 'aloud'. In my personal disciplines I have spent quite a few years looking at the definition of normal Christianity. I discovered that in essence it is what it is, and powerfully so. To lessen or redefine a significant part of sound teaching weakens the whole unified structure.

There is a need for a childlike trust that isn't childish and doesn't feel the need to use limited human wisdom to intellectualise the Gospel Truth that stands entirely on Christ's miraculous resurrection.

Perhaps this is relevant: "We refuse... to tamper with God's word (adulterate it)..." (2nd Corinthians 4:2).

Edited September 23, 2020 by Speks
Correction

[NotAllThere]

I see what you mean I think. When it comes to interpretation of scripture, and its authority, I'm definitely conservative. However, I did study theology and university, including Liberal Theology. I think it was Mohlmann who said (coming out of WW2), "any theology that doesn't address the needs of people is no theology at all". I was quite taken by that idea - if our beliefs and our "religion" are not rooted in love, then forget it. Which of course is effectively what Paul says in 1 Cor 13. 

But like Calvinism puts God's sovereignty paramount, so Liberal Theology puts God's love paramount - and errs in doing so. In the extremes it leads people away from God. 

Anyway, I think the reason this thread was originally posted was a counterbalance to those who post here who are very absolute in their beliefs and quite condemning of those who don't entirely agree with them. I don't think liberal was meant in the context of Liberalism nor of Liberal Theology.

Edited September 23, 2020 by NotAllThere

[leah777]

Is interesting how 'liberal' has a certain meaning for the US. Not the same as other countries. Just like 'conservative'.

This is an international forum, and the different uses of some terms is educational.

[Marathoner]

I've been reflecting upon the OP and other contributions in this topic for some time, debating whether I should respond or not and if I did, what could I possibly say? In truth I share very little in common with most people I meet whether that's online or face-to-face, and the same holds true here; I've always preferred to evade the notice of my fellows so "cruising under the radar" has been my way of life since it began. My experience in Army Basic Training best exemplifies how I move through this world of men: it was necessary for drill sergeants to read the name tag on my uniform to discover my identity. I did what was expected and as a result I escaped their (often baleful) gaze. 

Those days ended when the Lord called to me out of the blue. Nothing is hidden from Almighty God, not even one like yours truly who is talented at remaining unseen. When the Spirit sent me to a gathering of believers in the countryside I felt like an outsider on account of how little I shared in common with them all. Politics? Matters of "right" and "left?" TV shows... a house with a fence? Money? In all honesty I found it more than a little overwhelming. I wanted to run like thunder for the hills and were it not for the Spirit of God constraining me, that's precisely what I would have done! 

A few weeks ago a brother in Christ pointed these differences out to me, once again brining them to the forefront. I brought this before the Lord because I heard His voice in the counsel of my brother so therefore I asked Him to show me: show me so I might know, Lord. God's Spirit illuminated the secrets of my heart, revealing how much I fear confrontation of any kind because I'm mortified of harming others thereby. It's well and good that I abstain from disputes and argumentation but despising it like I do, stray to the the other extreme... remaining silent when I ought to speak. 

It grieves my heart that brethren cling to this fallen world of men, dividing themselves according to the customs of this flesh. The politics of man are venomous and allegiance to worldly nations establishes the master whom the afflicted loves and serves. Those who stand in this camp turn upon those who stand in that camp, vying for supremacy in all things. This isn't the fulfillment of the Lord's prayer in John 17 but rather the antithesis of the very words He spoke!

Yes, I'm an outsider with regard to such matters and I'm thankful that the Lord spared me from such things. The venom I witness even on a forum such as this one is a terrible thing to behold. Are we not servants of the same Master? Weren't we grafted into the same holy nation? How can a man call the object of his wrath "brother" knowing full well that the wrath of man never serves the righteousness of God?    


   

[Figure of eighty]

Im a centrist but more left leaning for sure.

[Marathoner]

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

Can we agree that the politics of fallen humans is much more problematic than the politics of restored humanity? 

I aske because one of the often-ignored realities is the fact God likes diversity. He's not so keen on division or divisiveness, but a big fan of diversity. This means that not even a large group of the redeemed regenerate are likely to have complete uniformity, especially not in regard to the most demanding concerns of public life.

 Wonderful question! And I find the irony often escapes the wrathful. Which, I suppose, answers the question, at least in part. 

 

Many today consider Jesus a liberal! He's viewed as a counter-culture lib upsetting the status quo..... who are imagined the ancient version of the modern conservative. This is, of course, absurd and a gross misunderstanding of scripture, history, the world, and politics. Jesus was hailing back to ancient precepts, not teaching anything new. The "new covenant" was first alluded to in Eden and it runs as a single thread throughout all of history from the beginning of Genesis 1:1 all the way through to the new heavens and earth. There is no "revolution" from God's pov. It's those stuck in the bubble of a singularity's cause-and-effect that view things as new or old, lib or con, traditional or revolutionary, etc., etc., etc.

I agree with you, brother. We've all living proof of how God loves diversity which is also seen in the scriptural illustration of the many-membered body. I appreciate the perspective you offer and I receive it gladly.

This is also true: Christ was teaching nothing new when He walked in this flesh. Indeed, the scriptures testify of Him and our Father's intention beginning in Genesis. Well said!

[JohnD]

I've had conservative tendencies most of my life, but I have found most everything in Heaven and Earth is somewhere between the two extremes. 

The soul that sins shall die. But God seems to bend over backwards trying to save mankind.

Don't get me wrong, there are certain absolutes (whether we like them or not).

But the LORD tells us and shows us that love and mercy and trusting Him is what it's all about.

The Law was only to drive us to Grace (Galatians 3:24-25). Then in turn share and show that

Grace to others.

[JTC]

On 9/22/2020 at 3:15 PM, LadyKay said:

I never consider myself to be a liberal. I just follow the teachings of Christ to the best I am able to do. Live my life in as much of a Christ like manner as I can. Messing up here and there sometimes as we all do. Then I join Worthy and started spouting off what I think about this and that and what not. Then all these people on here started calling me a Liberal. So I just went with it. And I guess I never really denied it.  But really all I am doing is being me.

Kay,  I don't know you super well but the little I know of you tells me you are a liberal type of Christian. I don't know about politically. Of course you can say I'm a close minded ultra conservative old fashioned Christian. 30 to 35 yrs ago you might have liked me but now you probably can't stand folks like me. My challenge with people like you is to not judge you. We've both been a part of Worthy a long time and I've noticed you keep coming back here, that tells me something. I've reached the point where I have to wonder how a believer can think homosexuality is okay with God, along with various other worldly concerns. 30 yrs ago I had a female friend who I was quite fond of. This young lady was bisexual so I had convinced myself that it wasn't so bad.  Today I simply wouldn't be friends with her, but not because I judge her but because being friends with a woman like her would pull me away from my devotions to God. This is what I worry about with you. Like I said, I know a little about you. I hope your liberal interests don't drag you away from a closer relationship with God. I think if God could have His way 100% then other than working and child rearing God would be what consumes us all the time.

   I would like to ask you a question. Why did you make this thread, what do you hope to get from it?

[BeauJangles]

I Wasn't A Liberal Until I Join Worthy

I'm surprisingly more conservative now than ever since joining WCF and taking a cross comparative overview of everyone else's stance on faith, politics, and general overall way of living standards. The only thing not so is my appearance and personal style of backdated fashion. At one time that too, was right in step. For quite a few years it was but no longer. At least I'm comfortable with that. 

[BeauJangles]

3 hours ago, Chicken coop2 said:

I love your hair, David.  Why should only Rapunzel have all the fun?

I've seen the movie recently and loved it. It was a familiar story to me from childhood. Now if only I had something like this poster.