pre tribulation

[NotAllThere]

8 hours ago, Moby said:

The sum of our Father's Word only teaches a postrib resurrection/rapture as the year of wrath commences.

Here is a simple timeline of the 7 years of Tribulation followed immediately by 1 year of wrath:

 

I<---------------Tribulation------------->I<-----------Great Tribulation---------------->I<----------------------1 year of Wrath(365 days)------------------>I

I<---------------1260 days------------->I<----------------1290 days------------------->I<-------------45 days------->I<-----------320 days----------------->I

Covenant      seals 2-4                midst                  seals 5 & 6                 7th seal           Trumps 2-7                         7 bowls                   Jesus

with                 opened            Abomination              opened                      marks            blown during                        poured                  returns

many                                        of Desolation                                                End of          1st~45 days of                    in heaven               to earth

starts                                              set up                                                     7 years          wrath 7th & last                  while church         Rev ch19

Tribulation                                                                                                   1st Trump           trump calls                       at marriage

1st Seal                                                                                                           starts             church home                        supper

opened                                                                                                            wrath

 

All the scriptures in this link fit nicely into this timeline:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

I wasn't really reading, just scanning, and when I saw your post, my first thought was:

7th Seal - Donald Trump (1st Trump) becomes president.

Trumps 2-7 - the dynasty he founds....

 

 

[Dennis1209]

2 hours ago, Josheb said:

Yep. Paul was writing to the Thessalonians so they wouldn't be "shaken in mind." He was not writing to 21st century American Christians. It is good for 21st century Christians to learn from Paul's admonition and the first century Thessalonians' example, but that does not make Paul writing directly to us. He was writing to them about conditions relevant to them. Any similarities in our century cannot and should not be made to pervert the facts of scripture, one of which is...

 

The word "soon" means soon; it does not mean 20 or more centuries from now. 

 

Still haven't answered the question asked: How close, exactly, is it? 

Of course we are to use discernment and context with all scripture [who is the author, to whom is the author addressing and why, what is the subject being addressed and the back story, etc.], and be a Berean. I think you're hinting at; that many times scripture is taken out of 'context' and into our own preconceived notions? 

I think your reasoning is weak and your argument non-biblical, with just one example. The finger of God wrote the 'Ten Commandments' and given to Moses for the Jew's. It was not written to us gentiles directly, in the 21st century. I guess in context it doesn't apply to us and should be ignored, since we're gentiles and under the New Covenant?

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [emphasis added]

2 Peter 1:20 (KJV) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. [emphasis added] Prophecy = prediction and/or thus saith the Lord.

The entire Bible is written to and for all people of all ages. The centerpiece of the entire Bible is Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. Romans 1:16 (KJV) For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. As you're aware, we gentiles were grafted into the branch, and to provoke the Jews to jealousy. 

The Bible gives us everything we need to know from "In the beginning" to the New Jerusalem descending down to Earth. Another centerpiece is God's chosen peculiar people, the Hebrew - Jew, and much of the Bible is written from their perspective and inspiration from the Holy Spirit. Jesus was born a Jew, 99% of the Bible was written by a Hebrew or Jew; they were entrusted with the writings and preserved them. 

Why do I mention all of the above? Because we get a better understanding of scripture looking at it from the Jewish mindset, their thoughts, customs, traditions, actions and beliefs. 

What's all this constant "How close, exactly, is it?" How close precisely is what?

[Dennis1209]

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

Yep. Paul was writing to the Thessalonians so they wouldn't be "shaken in mind." He was not writing to 21st century American Christians. It is good for 21st century Christians to learn from Paul's admonition and the first century Thessalonians' example, but that does not make Paul writing directly to us. He was writing to them about conditions relevant to them. Any similarities in our century cannot and should not be made to pervert the facts of scripture, one of which is...

 

The word "soon" means soon; it does not mean 20 or more centuries from now. 

 

Still haven't answered the question asked: How close, exactly, is it? 

Double post

Edited September 28, 2020 by Dennis1209

[Dennis1209]

5 hours ago, JTC said:

I rarely tell anyone this and I don't expect many to believe me. For many yrs I kept asking God what's this world all about, because this world is screwy, it doesn't make sense. Some yrs ago I finally received an answer. Part of it was God is building Himself a group of souls that He can trust completely and who He can use in the next world. So God has a quota that only the Father knows, which is why Jesus couldn't say when He'd be back. I didn't believe God really said that until I heard Michael Heiser say almost the same thing, concerning the end of the End. Michael Heiser's version is a little different but the end will happen when the Father has enough saved souls so He can proceed to the next phase of His master plan. He doesn't have them yet. But it has nothing to do with disasters. This is why I don't think the end will happen tomorrow.

Matthew 24:14 (KJV) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

I would suspect the Lord being omniscient, He would have that number of those that are going to be saved. Not one of us can say with certainty when something prophetic is going to occur. But we can see what is happening all around us and see we are in that season. I won't use the word "close or soon", because I've been challenged to explain every letter in those words, LoL. 

One way or another, with my old age, either way there's no doubt I'll be meeting the Lord Jesus soon; there I go using that debated word again...

We all look at things differently and use different verbages to express our beliefs and thoughts. I'm not on Michael Heiser's level but; I would think our walk with the Lord here in our physical bodies on earth and believers having Saving Faith... Is a training, testing, learning ground in faith, trust and maturity; and to produce fruit for the Kingdom of God. 

It would be interesting to know how many, if any, tribes [nations] in the deep jungles of South America, Africa, global isolated areas, etc., have yet to receive the Gospel message? It's fascinating and a blessing to hear many Muslims under the threat of death, are turning to Jesus and being saved!

[Jedi4Yahweh]

14 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Matthew 24:14 (KJV) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

I would suspect the Lord being omniscient, He would have that number of those that are going to be saved. Not one of us can say with certainty when something prophetic is going to occur. But we can see what is happening all around us and see we are in that season. I won't use the word "close or soon", because I've been challenged to explain every letter in those words, LoL. 

One way or another, with my old age, either way there's no doubt I'll be meeting the Lord Jesus soon; there I go using that debated word again...

We all look at things differently and use different verbages to express our beliefs and thoughts. I'm not on Michael Heiser's level but; I would think our walk with the Lord here in our physical bodies on earth and believers having Saving Faith... Is a training, testing, learning ground in faith, trust and maturity; and to produce fruit for the Kingdom of God. 

It would be interesting to know how many, if any, tribes [nations] in the deep jungles of South America, Africa, global isolated areas, etc., have yet to receive the Gospel message? It's fascinating and a blessing to hear many Muslims under the threat of death, are turning to Jesus and being saved!

The truth is that we dont have to wait for a rapture if that is what one is waiting for.  The bibles says it is appointed until all men to die and then the judgement.  We will all have an appointed time to stand before him and give account for our lives.   So, make use of the time that you have now doing what pleases God and know it will not be long either by his coming or by death we will stand before him.

[Dennis1209]

6 minutes ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

The truth is that we dont have to wait for a rapture if that is what one is waiting for.  The bibles says it is appointed until all men to die and then the judgement.  We will all have an appointed time to stand before him and give account for our lives.   So, make use of the time that you have now doing what pleases God and know it will not be long either by his coming or by death we will stand before him.

You're basically correct but, context and the message is everything. Hebrews 9:27 (KJV) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

What about those resurrected by Jesus and the Apostles; that had to die "twice"? Or Enoch and Elijah, though they maybe the two witnesses? Yes, Christians will stand before Jesus at the Bema Seat, not to be condemned but, to give a complete account of our lives; and receive any crowns or rewards for our service. 

[Jedi4Yahweh]

18 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

You're basically correct but, context and the message is everything. Hebrews 9:27 (KJV) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

What about those resurrected by Jesus and the Apostles; that had to die "twice"? Or Enoch and Elijah, though they maybe the two witnesses? Yes, Christians will stand before Jesus at the Bema Seat, not to be condemned but, to give a complete account of our lives; and receive any crowns or rewards for our service. 

True but not everyone that professes or think they are Christian are going to be saved. 

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. - Mat 7:21-27 KJV

And someone said to him, "Lord, will those who are saved be few?" And he said to them, "Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the master of the house has risen and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, open to us,' then he will answer you, 'I do not know where you come from.' Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.' But he will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil!' In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out. - Luk 13:23-28 ESV

Edited September 28, 2020 by Jedi4Yahweh

[Dennis1209]

30 minutes ago, Josheb said:

You might have a hard time accepting that fact but that is the results of your eschatology; it makes scripture meaningless for thousands of generations

Wow, I didn't consider my personal hermeneutics would have such a lasting impact. Thanks and goodbye.

[BeauJangles]

26 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Thanks and goodbye.

Don't split, bro. I love you!

[BeauJangles]

1 minute ago, Chicken coop2 said:

He's not going to rapture without us I hope.

Let's go now... 

          Dennis1209  Chicken-Coop2  BeauJangles