Are We Predestined?

[Speks]

As an aside here...

When we read the Old Testament records we can often apply them to our walk with Christ. This story of David saving the town of Keilah reminds me that sometimes those God wants us to help can betray us, or they may try to convince us to stay where it's unsafe. (There are many ways we can be tempted to compromise even while doing what's right. Consider Galatians 6:1.)

Sometimes it's best to move on to a place that's spiritually safe. Spiritual strongholds in Christ protect us from the enemy, just as David was hidden from Saul.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Speks

[Justin Adams]

1 minute ago, Speks said:

As an aside here...

When we read the Old Testament records we can often apply them to our walk with Christ. This story of David saving the town of Keilah reminds me that sometimes those God wants us to help can betray us, or they may try to convince us to stay where it's unsafe. (There are many ways we can be tempted to compromise even while doing what's right. Consider Galatians 6:1.)

Sometrimes it's best to move on to a place that's spiritually safe. Spiritual strongholds in Christ protect us from the enemy, just as David was hidden from Saul.

This passage is a commentary on two things God foreknew that never happened. Understand it very well. It flies in the face of much man made predestination doctrine.

[Speks]

Yes indeed, God knew what would have happened if David had stayed among those who would betray him to Saul. It's not wise to stay with the wrong people behind their double gates and bars.

[JohnR7]

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

We are not predestined to do such and such. We are to be made like Christ Jesus.

You speak with a forked tongue. You are saying that we are predestined: "to be made like Christ Jesus". He lived His life as an example for us to follow. He went about preaching, teaching and healing the sick. That is what we are to do.  "Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected. " (Luke 13:32) "Jesus went through all the towns and villages, teaching in their synagogues, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom and healing every disease and sickness." (Matthew 9:35) 

On the third day, the 1,000 year reign of Christ the Church will be perfected. We will rule and reign with Him for 1,000 years. 

[enoob57]

I think as soon as we place our minds upon God as to parameter we have failed to know Him.... 

[Dennis1209]

2 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

You are saying that we are predestined: "to be made like Christ Jesus"

We're having a healthy dialog between predestination and being in the image of God [imagers]. We all have our own hermeneutic views of scripture; but how did we develop them? I was influenced heavily by my upbringing in a non denominational Christian Bible believing church, and later the Baptist 'denomination'; sermons, Sunday School lessons, pastor's, even the version of the Bible I use, etc. influenced me. Why are there so many denominations and why [another subject]? There are many things that shape our views. If we can strip away our preconceived notions of what we have been taught, what someone else thinks, the traditions of men; and read the Bible for ourselves as written and what it actually says and implies, it opens up a whole new world of study and understanding. 

I appreciate different points of view than my own, that's a good way for me to learn. It challenges me to study and investigate which view is the most probable one [context - discernment]. I do my best to be like a Berean and see if it so, or not. With a closed mind, concrete ideology, unchangeable worldview, denominational stance, loyalty to a denomination, creed and human traditions; how do we challenge ourselves to learn 'truth'?

Our creation and being in the image of God [God's imager] may not be what many people have been taught and think. It would be much to lengthily to delve into this topic of "imager" at present but; a scholarly, biblical, in depth and logical argument is postulated by Dr. Michael S. Heiser, if one wants to dig deep into scripture. His scholarly in depth research and P.H.D. dissertation with positive peer review, has changed the way I view the big picture presented in God's word. He uses all the bits and pieces in the Bible and puts them together; to form a mosaic of our Bible and history. Everything now makes much more logical sense on every level, such as the following example. Why did a loving, merciful, forgiving and carrying God; demand genocide of every man, woman, child, beast and their possessions in a number of cases in scripture? Genesis 6: 1-5, the reason for the global deluge, and so many other controversial passages become crystal clear.

Should anyone desire to challenge themselves to see if they have the correct view of the big biblical picture or not, and be a Berean... I invite anyone to view his many videos on Youtube, and / or, read one of his scholarly books written mostly so us layman can understand; with a plethora of cited and annotated material, peer reviewed. After studying his teachings; studying for yourself, verifying, fact checking and prayer; your own worldview of the big picture may also change?

Our Bible is the most amazing book ever written, and from God Himself to man. It's a love story, the history of everything, it answers most of life's most important questions and so much more. The New Testament is written so that even a child can understand the plan of Salvation and be saved. The Bible is so complex with many layers of how deep one can delve into it; that even the brightest human minds can only scratch the surface of what's there to discover.

God's 'word' will be with us for all of eternity. I'm wondering if we will be studying God's word throughout eternity and discovering the depths of everything that's actually there???

Sorry, I didn't mean to get so long winded.

 

[JohnD]

To believe or not to believe...

that IS your destiny.

[David1701]

6 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

This passage is a commentary on two things God foreknew that never happened. Understand it very well. It flies in the face of much man made predestination doctrine.

This is a contradiction in terms.  If God foreknows that a thing will happen, then it is because it will happen.

God has perfect knowledge of everything that would happen, in this or that set or circumstances, not only events that will actually take place.  It is that which is in view here.

[David1701]

25 minutes ago, JohnD said:

To believe or not to believe...

that IS your destiny.

Firstly, those are two things (i.e. "are", not "IS"); secondly, they are not destinies.

I've found that many professing Christians are full of pride and want to be in control of their own destiny.  I have news for them: God is in control; He chose, long ago, whom He would save and whom He would leave in the sin they love.  Let him who boasts, boast in the Lord!

1 Cor. 1:23-31 (WEB)

23 but we preach Christ crucified; a stumbling block to Jews, and foolishness to Greeks,
24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For you see your calling, brothers, that not many are wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, and not many noble;
27 but God chose the foolish things of the world that he might put to shame those who are wise. God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put to shame the things that are strong;
28 and God chose the lowly things of the world, and the things that are despised, and the things that are not, that he might bring to nothing the things that are:
29 that no flesh should boast before God.
30 But of him, you are in Christ Jesus, who was made to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption:
31 that, according as it is written, “He who boasts, let him boast in the Lord.”

[JohnD]

3 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Firstly, those are two things (i.e. "are", not "IS"); secondly, they are not destinies.

I've found that many professing Christians are full of pride and want to be in control of their own destiny.  I have news for them: God is in control; He chose, long ago, whom He would save and whom He would leave in the sin they love.  Let him who boasts, boast in the Lord!

1 Cor. 1:23-31 (WEB)

23 but we preach Christ crucified; a stumbling block to Jews, and foolishness to Greeks,
24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For you see your calling, brothers, that not many are wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, and not many noble;
27 but God chose the foolish things of the world that he might put to shame those who are wise. God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put to shame the things that are strong;
28 and God chose the lowly things of the world, and the things that are despised, and the things that are not, that he might bring to nothing the things that are:
29 that no flesh should boast before God.
30 But of him, you are in Christ Jesus, who was made to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption:
31 that, according as it is written, “He who boasts, let him boast in the Lord.”

To believe is one to not believe is one. You can only be one or the other. Therefore IS is correct!