Are Pre - Mid & Post Trib Rapture theories all true?

[JohnR7]

For me, whenever we die - if we are a "believer" - we are raptured up to be with the Lord. Our Spirit and our Soul go to be with Jesus - our body returns to the earth. "for dust you are and to dust you will return." (Genesis 3:19) To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. (1Cor5:8)

We are told at the resurrection the exact same body elements we have now will be resurrected. Even the unsaved are resurrected at the end of the 1,000 year reign of Christ because they have to be reunited with their body in order for God to judge them. 

"The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete". (Rev20:5) Here we are told those who reign with Christ for 1,000 years will be resurrected. 

Jude 1:14 "Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment". Enoch looked into the future and saw a time when the Church will be gathered together as one. 

1Peter2:5 tells us we are living stones: "like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ'. The day will come when we will all be gathered together as one. Now God works on us as individuals. 

The Holy Spirit of God helps us to understand these scriptures and how they apply to our lives. There are many scriptures in the Old and New Testament that talks about this. This was written for our benefit but also the benefit of the people that wrote the Bible. 

Edited October 16, 2020 by JohnR7

[missmuffet]

Everyone seems to have their own interpretation of the timing of what will happen. Time will tell. I think the Bible is correct with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and that would be pre-tribulation and the rapture of the Church before the 7 year tribulation. 

[JohnR7]

2 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Everyone seems to have their own interpretation of the timing of what will happen. Time will tell. I think the Bible is correct with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and that would be pre-tribulation and the rapture of the Church before the 7 year tribulation. 

My question is: What is the difference between a "pre-tribulation" rapture and what happens when every believer dies? Paul tells us: "to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord" (2cor5:8) Either way we go to be with the Lord. 

[Revelation Man]

On 10/16/2020 at 3:08 PM, JohnR7 said:

My question is: What is the difference between a "pre-tribulation" rapture and what happens when every believer dies? Paul tells us: "to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord" (2cor5:8) Either way we go to be with the Lord. 

People jump to such conclusions, which is why we get these kind of conjectures. 

So, Paul is telling the Corinthians, HEY, don't worry about dying, we are absent from the Lord now, but when we are absent from this earthly body (When we die) we will be with Jesus because not being in these earthly bodies leads to us being with the Lord. But just like going to sleep, and waking up at morning, Paul is not speaking about the time we will rest before our resurrection, you know "THE ONE" where it says at the very end the DEAD will RISE FIRST? Then those of us who are alive will change (DIE......change to Spirit men). So, yes, to a be absent from this body leads unto us being with Jesus, Paul was trying to lift them up in their Faith, HEY, come on guys, when you die you are going to be with Jesus. Well, in 1 Cor. 15 Paul had ALREADY told them the Dead are raised up at the very end !! He doesn't need to repeat his first letter, they already know this. 

All we have to do is add it up brother. To be absent will mean we will be with the Lord, the facts is while we are resting, it will seem like a moment in time, just like sleep at night seems like a few minutes instead of hours. 

So, we do not go to be with the Lord when we die, according to 1 Cor. 15:50.............on to the end of the chapter. 

The Pre Trib Rapture is Jesus calling the Bride to the Wedding Chambers for 7 years. 

Edited October 21, 2020 by Revelation Man

[JohnR7]

On 10/17/2020 at 12:30 AM, Revelation Man said:

The Pre Trib Rapture is Jesus calling the Bride to the Wedding Chambers for 7 years. 

Where do you get the "7 years" from? How do you know it is not 700 years?

We are body, soul & spirit. When we die our body returns to the earth. Our soul & spirit, along with out spiritual body goes to Heaven to be with Jesus. When we return to the Earth at the Resurrection then our soul and spirit is reunited with our physical body. In Psalm 139 15 David talks about how we are woven or knit together. This has to do with the spirit or soul being joined together with the elements of the earth. 

[Revelation Man]

22 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

Where do you get the "7 years" from? How do you know it is not 700 years?

We are body, soul & spirit. When we die our body returns to the earth. Our soul & spirit, along with out spiritual body goes to Heaven to be with Jesus. When we return to the Earth at the Resurrection then our soul and spirit is reunited with our physical body. In Psalm 139 15 David talks about how we are woven or knit together. This has to do with the spirit or soul being joined together with the elements of the earth. 

When we go to Heave  we get out Glorious body, the bible is well noted for 1 day standing for 1 year. For instance, the 70 x 7 Prophecy of Daniel, via the Angel Gabriel, via the Jeremiah prophecy of 70 years (God multiplied it times (x) 7 to Daniel via Gabriel). Thus when Jesus died he 69 weeks were finished. There is yet ONE WEEK left for Israel to Repent. God turned His back on Israel from AD 70 until 1948 (see Ezekiel 37....The Valley of Dry Bones Prophecy), so Israel's repentance is yet to come, we can see it in Zechariah 13:8-9 and Malachi 4:5-6. 

So, we know there is ONE WEEK left in Israel's 70 weeks of punishment, which only comes once the TIME of the Gentiles have COME FULL. 

Its pretty simple tbh brother, once you put it together. Jesus teaches lessons over and over about the Jewish Wedding Patterns.

The Wedding Pattern: http://luke810.com/wedpatt.htm

[JohnR7]

20 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

For instance, the 70 x 7 Prophecy of Daniel, via the Angel Gabriel, via the Jeremiah prophecy of 70 years (God multiplied it times (x) 7 to Daniel via Gabriel).

I have done the math on that two or three times. But I start with a date that they give us and I have no way to confirm that date is accurate. We do not even know for sure when Jesus was born and when the first Pentecost was.  I have no reason to question Bishop Ussher 4004 BC date for when Adam began or the 4 BC date for when Mary birthed Jesus into the world. 

[WilliamL]

14 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

I have no reason to question Bishop Ussher 4004 BC date for when Adam began or the 4 BC date for when Mary birthed Jesus into the world. 

He made a worthy effort based upon the evidence he had in his day. But much more evidence from history has surfaced since then. Jesus actually was born on Sept. 25, 7 B.C., which was Rosh Hashanah on an equinox.

[JohnR7]

4 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

to actually consider this "1000 year reign" to be symbolic in nature

The Bible is literal, symbolic and numerical all at the same time. I always like to follow the law of first use. For example in Genesis 3:15 "I will cause hostility between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring. He will strike your head, and you will strike his heel.” This looks to be very symbolic - yet Jesus was actually physically born into the world through Mary. 

4 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

This language appears only in the highly allegorical Book of Revelation.

Again the law of first use is to look at Jude 1:14 "Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied about these people when he said, "Look! The Lord has come with countless thousands of his holy ones".  Enoch saw this over 4,000 years ago.  Lot of people look forward to the time we live in and lots of people in the future look back on this time. This is when we are told the Kingdoms of this world are to become the Kingdom of God. 

Zechariah tells us his feet will touch the ground and there will be a great earthquake. It is difficult to believe this is not a literal event. We also read around this same events in Acts. A lot of this is symbolic, but I think we need to be open to a literal return of Jesus to the Earth for the 1,000 year reign of Christ here on the Earth. 

"On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south". (Zechariah 14:4)

"This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." (Acts1:11)

[JohnR7]

On 10/19/2020 at 8:44 PM, Walter Goraj jr said:

Yes, there is literal and spiritual language in the old and new testament.  Discerning which is which comes from a proper foundation.

My preschool readiness test would require students understand what the letters of the alphabet represent.  Today you could have a PhD in Education and be a Superintendent of a school system and still not qualify for my preschool test. Our education is based on understanding those letter. For example C represents Camel, but also C represents commerce. By the time they graduate they should have a working understanding of what commerce is. A beginning student can learn about camels & the silk road. 

 

On 10/19/2020 at 8:44 PM, Walter Goraj jr said:

the millennium teaching was somewhat popular early on before Bibles became more abundant. But for hundreds of years most "scholars " understood that the end of this sin cursed world is at the last day to be followed by a new heavens and a new earth. 

There are two different scriptures in Revelation. Rev 20:7 & Rev 21:1.  The question is: what do these scriptures mean. This can be but  does not have to be a doctrine. 

On 10/19/2020 at 8:44 PM, Walter Goraj jr said:

since we're coming to the end of the world

We are at the end of an age.  Again this is a scripture: Rev 11:15 "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdom of our Lord".  This could be catastrophic with up to 2/3 of the people destroyed. Zechariah 13:9 Some would even suggest 90% if you follow remnant theology. 

 

On 10/19/2020 at 8:44 PM, Walter Goraj jr said:

 

It is a dangerous teaching that tricks people into thinking that There will still be more time to get right with God even after the rapture 

I believe the rapture is progressive and takes place at the moment of death for every believer. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. So to die is for our spirit and soul to be seperated from our physical body. We are t0ld there is a resurrection for the 1,000 year reign of Christ. I do not understand this because there is also a resurrection when there is a new heaven and a new earth. That makes more sense to me that the new glorified body would match the new earth. 

We already are a part of the 1,000 year reign because we set the stage for that. Just like the early church set the stage for us today. Jude 1:14 tells us this even goes back to Enoch the seventh from Adam. He saw this event over 4,000 years ago.