It's Supernatural

[Starise]

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

The tribulation has already happened and the idea there is anything supernatural about a Ouija board is a falsehood, a lie that comes from the deceiver; one of many by/with which people get distracted. You are aware the Ouija board has been around for 130 years, yes? It is not a new or sudden "last days" phenomenon. You are aware the Higgs boson is a particle is not a spiritual entity, but a physical one? You are also aware the multiple dimensions hypothesized by string theory are atomic (really small)? You understand Higgs boson is not new  and therefore not a sign of the last days?

And what, exactly, is "full blown tinkering on steroids" of the supernatural spiritual world? Do please be specific. We cannot discuss your op if we do not know exactly what you mean, 

 

Well we are all entitled to an opinion. Let's just say our opinions part drastically  There is one fact though, Christ has not returned the 2nd time.  There are things that have not happened yet and won't happen until later. I'll leave it at that for now. I think a lot of this is how we might have been theologically conditioned by our respective church teaching. Maybe I'm wrong here and willing to admit it if I am. There are certainties, theories and all in between.  

There are two ways to look at the Ouija board. From a purely physical perspective, yes it's a game and yes it's a piece of wood and a pointer. The ark of the covenant was a box too. You can either choose to see the spiritual implications of not. It's up to you. How do you see the Ouija board as a lie? Given all of the real experiences people have had with it? Also in looking at it's purpose? Now the burden of proof rests on you since we have multiple people who have had real experiences that were negative in using one and in asking it valid questions. 

I will be the first to say I think some have an inclination to get "carried away" with some of these things. Lets be honest, the subject is intriguing  to some people, including me. People love mysteries. People love to learn and find answers to unanswered questions. CERN is a mystery. Why do there always have to be the two extremes?  One person says, " Move along, nothing to see here. " Another thinks there's going to be 25ft demons coming in from another dimension. 

Something about the human psyche draws a line when they hear tales deemed truly unusual, like something  that doesn't fall in line with their world view.

Others feel that deep down things are really much stranger than we believed them to be. Truth is sometimes stranger than fiction. There are people who want there to be a Loch Ness monster. 

This is where I believe we need to begin an unbiased sorting process. Is there logical reason to think something is going on that's less than honest about CERN? I personally think there is. To what degree I can't say.

Some would also be VERY trusting that what everyone says they are doing, they are really doing. Do you believe this?  All of the worlds CEOs and politicians are clean beyond reproach. Nothing ever done in the name of science should be questioned since no scientists have any other agenda than to learn science.  Does this mean we trust no one?  Not necessarily. I think it means we look closely at the data. Are we really that willing to take someone's word for it when we see evidence to the contrary? If a person isn't interested enough to pursue an answer, there's no disgrace in saying so.  

Either view can decide not to look at further evidence. It may well be something we can't know since we are spoon fed from checked sources most of the time. What they HAVE shown me gives me reason to be concerned. I don't see how anyone who has looked at the subject can in good conscience give this the wave of the hand and walk away as if it's nothing. OTOH we aren't supposed to worry. God is in control. Might be one of those subjects we learn about, continue to follow and see what happens. For sure I can't do anything about it either way but God can.

 

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by Starise
spelling

[Starise]

I sense that you are lashing out at me a little here on this. I mean't no ill toward you. 

I will say, I have lots of irons in the fire. I know what I believe personally and I have good reasoning behind it. I feel no real reason to prove that to you. It might be an interesting discussion some time. I'm not retired. I don't have all kinds of time to sit at a computer and type long dissertations for theological relevancy of my beliefs. Honestly I wish I did  I think you'll find that I'm one of thousands, perhaps millions who don't believe everything has happened yet.. 

I'm sure you could find interest on the theology part of the boards to enter into discussion about it and I might have time to comment a little on it. Others probably have more. I mean, Christians have always endured some kind of trouble all through history and I'm sure much can be ciphered from that. There are all kinds of beliefs here and I consider the end times to be somewhat of a non essential. Interesting discussion no doubt. My eyes tend to glaze over after reading reams of back and forth one way of the other.

I'll need to go back and look again but wasn't this mostly about CERN?  We are running the train WAY off the rails here. I think you might have referenced at least two other threads in this thread. I'm trying to keep my mind on one subject and I'm scatter brained as it is. lol.

[Dennis1209]

21 minutes ago, Roar said:

Dr. Michael S. Heiser, wrote a book about the Super Natural: What the Bible teaches about the unseen world - and why it matters. I could not hope to condense his words into a few posts here. I personally really enjoyed the book, I recommend it and perhaps you would gain from it also as it directly pertains to the subject.

Amazon says the following about the book:

Dr. Michael S. Heiser, a Scholar-in-Residence at Faithlife Corporation, presents fifteen years of research on what the Bible really says about the unseen world of the supernatural-unfiltered by tradition or by theological presuppositions. "People shouldn't be protected from the Bible," Dr. Michael S. Heiser says, but theological systems often do just that, by "explaining away" difficult or troublesome passages of Scripture because their literal meaning doesn't fit into our tidy systems.

Who were the "sons of God"? Who were the Nephilim? Where do angels fit into the supernatural hierarchy? Why did God find it necessary to have the Israelites destroy the populations of entire cities-man, woman, and child? What relation does Jesus bear to the rest of the supernatural world? Dr. Michael S. Heiser tackles these questions and many more in his books Supernatural and The Unseen Realm.

In both books, Dr. Michael S. Heiser shines a light on the supernatural world-not a new light, but rather the same light the original, ancient readers-and writers-of Scripture would have seen it in.

After reading these books, you won't be able to read the Bible in the same way again.

Supernatural, What the Bible Teaches about the Unseen World-and Why it Matters presents this approach to reading and understanding scripture for the person in the pew. The Unseen Realm covers the same material but at a deeper, complex, and highly documented way, for pastors, the seminarian, or serious students of the Bible.

Yep, I have his books and watched hours and hours of his lectures on Youtube. I've learned a great deal from him. Of course I never take anyone's word with their teachings and scholarly opinions and commentaries. I check and verify their teachings the best I can, so I can gain trust on the accuracy of their view compared to my hermeneutics of scripture. 

So far, I don't find much disagreement, with the exception of: He believes Noah's flood was localized and regional? My view is it was global. My opinion means nothing but; I'd rank him as one of the top five scholar's of my generation. Two other scholar's I highly admire are the late Dr. Chuck Missler and the late Ravi Zacharias among a few others. 

[Guest]

On 10/16/2020 at 4:42 PM, Dennis1209 said:

Lately there have been threads and topics dealing with ouija boards and tinkering with the supernatural spiritual world. What if that tinkering became full blown and is on steroids, with billions spent? I'd like to hear your thoughts and opinions. What do you think the results may produce if they are successful; I'm speaking of The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at CERN. Is it for scientific research or delving into the supernatural spirit world and other dimensions? I propose the latter. The Higgs boson particle; appropriately dubbed "the God particle".

In the tribulation there's going to be angels with keys to the bottomless pit, releasing monster supernatural locusts, four bad, bad angels confined under the River Euphrates, etc.. What if the Lord in part, gave the keys to those angels because of mans efforts in trying to conjure up the spirits? Okay boy's, you tried, now here they are.

In a number of places in the Bible; heaven opened; doors of heaven opened. In modern terms, we would say a 'gate' or 'portal' opened to another dimension. The Lord allowed the Witch of Endor to conjure up Samuel for Saul. The goings on at CERN don't seem to be benign, benevolent, scientific and innocent for more reasons that I'm going to mention. 

There's no doubt they are looking for the key to another dimension. Your thoughts?

I've been looking at anti-matter recently and have learned they have now been able to make anti-molecules, like anti-Helium.

Source: First Antimatter Molecule

Heaviest form of Antimatter

Edited October 20, 2020 by Saved.One.by.Grace

[JTC]

On 10/16/2020 at 4:42 PM, Dennis1209 said:

Lately there have been threads and topics dealing with Ouija boards and tinkering with the supernatural spiritual world. What if that tinkering became full blown and is on steroids, with billions spent? I'd like to hear your thoughts and opinions. What do you think the results may produce if they are successful

I want to try and make this thread realistic. I don't care much for conspiracy theories.

The problem here is that this is a Christian board and there shouldn't even be threads that favor the Ouija board or other supernatural practices, unless they include our God. I had to say that because God Himself is supernatural. As people who are supposed to be Christian get more and more involved in this stuff I see the end of Christianity coming. Even now true Christians are few and far between, this will get worse. I gave up looking for a true Christian church yrs ago. Now I don't have a car anymore so I can't go looking. Assuming I'm a true Christian, I can't be found in any church. If this fascination with occult matters grows no real Christians will be in churches anymore. Not good.

  And has anyone else noticed how many people who were born and raised as Christian (aka Protestant) are now joining the Catholic Church? I have and I've asked a few why. They were disgusted with the way we fight and disagree with each other. They wanted a church with answers. They wanted a church that believes the same things no matter where they go. The CC is like that. This is what Christians being involved in supernatural matters is causing, our people are turning to Catholicism because it sounds correct. I don't think so, I left Catholicism 50 yrs ago because they have hidden problems.

   But we also have major problems. We need to stop worrying about conspiracy theories and we need to address our real problems. And we need to do it without getting bent out of shape.

[JTC]

9 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

I've been looking at anti-matter recently and have learned they have now been able to make anti-molecules, like anti-Helium.

This is interesting, especially if it's true. Since I'm a long term fan of Star Trek I've always wondered what anti-matter was supposed to be, and why was it necessary to propel a Star Ship. It's not as mysterious as it's name suggests. It's matter that creates a lot of energy with a very small amount. But I assume that energy is still heat. Star Trek never explained that.

[Justin Adams]

48 minutes ago, JTC said:

But we also have major problems. We need to stop worrying about conspiracy theories and we need to address our real problems. And we need to do it without getting bent out of shape.

True and well said. As the TV and movies focus on superheroes, and the wrong end of the supernatural spectrum, it is no wonder that people look to the hidden arts for answers.

Gnostic and 'hidden' ideas have been reborn again since the 15th century and birthed much poor doctrine in an endeavour to answer questions that the church avoided. The gnostic ideas found a new approach with the spiritism of later ideas spawned by Crowley and other occult writers. The black arts have flourished in a world rich with unschooled people that see it as OK.

It is a fertile ground awaiting transcendence of the wrong sort. The pantheons of old, disarmed by the Cross, are again trying to get a foothold in God's people. They are in a greater part succeeding and the church that is supernaturally illiterate just watches.

All that evil requires to succeed is for good men to do nothing...

[Speks]

2 hours ago, JTC said:

I want to try and make this thread realistic...  We need to stop worrying about conspiracy theories and we need to address our real problems. And we need to do it without getting bent out of shape.

There are those who would generally have some sympathy with your frustrations. It’s an unfortunate trait in human nature, joining up dots to create a picture of something that may not exist. Some people grow to have personality characteristics that are stubbornly attracted to controversies, conspiracy theories, the supernatural and any amount of outlandish ideas. Interpreting known facts to fit personal bias is a common inclination we should all try to avoid.

But these tendencies are of particular concern when it happens among true believers. The impact can be far-reaching. We can find ourselves surrounded by fruitless distractions that result in bickering and cliquey friendships that undermine fellowship. Those who are spiritually undisciplined impose dubious personal opinions and speculations on Scripture with all kinds of chaotic results. Many speak as if their debatable pet theory is an unanswerable fact. “Why can’t you see!”

If we get to the stage where we no longer trust ourselves and instead place our total confidence in Christ, we will be less likely to be outspoken and opinionated. (That's not a judgement of this thread.) If it’s our routine prayer to become subject to the mind of Christ, we will more readily know His will and gradually learn how best to conduct ourselves. Fallen human nature always tends to focus on self rather than placing Christ at the centre. If we can recognise when we are being “carnal”, we will be more likely to keep self under control. (I share all this in light of my own persistent shortcomings!)

“...asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him: bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God” (Colossians 1:9, 10, ESV).

[Dennis1209]

3 hours ago, JTC said:

I want to try and make this thread realistic. I don't care much for conspiracy theories.

The problem here is that this is a Christian board and there shouldn't even be threads that favor the Ouija board or other supernatural practices, unless they include our God. I had to say that because God Himself is supernatural. As people who are supposed to be Christian get more and more involved in this stuff I see the end of Christianity coming. Even now true Christians are few and far between, this will get worse. I gave up looking for a true Christian church yrs ago. Now I don't have a car anymore so I can't go looking. Assuming I'm a true Christian, I can't be found in any church. If this fascination with occult matters grows no real Christians will be in churches anymore. Not good.

  And has anyone else noticed how many people who were born and raised as Christian (aka Protestant) are now joining the Catholic Church? I have and I've asked a few why. They were disgusted with the way we fight and disagree with each other. They wanted a church with answers. They wanted a church that believes the same things no matter where they go. The CC is like that. This is what Christians being involved in supernatural matters is causing, our people are turning to Catholicism because it sounds correct. I don't think so, I left Catholicism 50 yrs ago because they have hidden problems.

   But we also have major problems. We need to stop worrying about conspiracy theories and we need to address our real problems. And we need to do it without getting bent out of shape.

I don't know where to start, to compare our worldviews? Our Bible is chock full of supernatural events and spiritual deities [ʾělō·hîm] at work. Those same entities, the present god of this world, principalities, powers, rulers of darkness, spiritual wickedness in high places [geographical] and demons; are busier than ever, as they know their time is getting short. They are behind the scenes in global governments.

Everyone needs to be aware of the things we do, the games we play, the things we watch; that's an open invitation to summon a demonic spirit into our lives. We need to guard our ear and eye gates and put on the whole armor of God. What and whom does this armor protect us from?

As for Protestants and other religions leaving their denominations and faith; it's called ecumenicalism; a sign of the times in which we are living and the soon coming one world religion with the False Prophet. 

People that are watchmen are well aware of what Pope Francis is saying and doing. He is reconciling and bringing the 'protestor's' back to the fold under the umbrella of the one true church. He is signing agreements with Protestant denominations, Buddhist's, other religions and Muslim sects for peace and unity of faith. Francis has flat out stated, "all faiths and religions worship the very same god, called by a different name". Ask a Buddhist or Muslim who Jesus and the Trinity is?

I won't waste my cyber ink again discussing the Jesuits, RCC bloody history, homosexuality, child molestation, cults within, Babylonian / Pagan practices, saint and Mary worship and intercession, indulgences [pay for pray], purgatory, their daily Eucharist [Christ dying once is not enough], last rites and so much more with the RCC. 

2 Timothy 4:3 (KJV) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; [emphasis added]

I see that time as now.

[Starise]

Speks I think you make great points here. The facts and nothing but the facts. The issue is we don't always know all of them. When I don't have all the info I try to make sure people know it only a conjecture, and opinion, a possibility I might have about something. 

This is an OPINION- I see nothing wrong with a Christian knowing about a thing that's not Christian if it helps us to be more informed about what the enemy is or might be doing. Conspiracy theories are conjectures sometimes based on a few known facts and sometimes entirely fabricated, maybe for the purposes of disinformation, maybe to get play counts on YouTube or to otherwise create some kind of havoc.

Some  conspiracy theories HAVE come to pass and were factual. Some conspiracy theories were onto something important that led to uncovering a cover up. Some conspiracy theories today will be leads to something relevant.

It is a fact that some people do things in secret and try to hide what they are up to. How relevant is this to the Christian?  We are told to be watchful because Satan walks about like a roaring lion seeking who he can devour. Be vigilant, be watchful. The devil is always looking to get a foothold in your life. The christian with blinders on is in danger. Does this mean we might consider a so called conspiracy theory? I try to collect information on everything I can that's going on around me, up to and including  those fringe happenings with more questions than answers.

Josheb, Brother I am not going to spar with you over a subject that wasn't even relevant to the thread. Let's sharpen one another ok? I need to make a correction on one thing you said. You falsely assumed I am a dispensationalist. While I believe God has a time for everything I am not dispensationalist. I have never said I was.

Back OT- I went back to the beginning and it seemed to me Dennis was mainly looking to hear open comments on CERN. At the end of his post he also mentions "portals". I guess this might be how the Ouija board came up since it is a sort of portal. Dennis asked for thought on it. I gave mine. Thanks Dennis! Interesting subject.