SwordMaster Posted November 19, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 286 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 19, 2020 Logos... said: Quote The road to eternal salvation begins with Jesus. And it never ends. I don't think it's complicated at all. The biggest obstacle to accepting Jesus is worldliness. As far as being a biblical scholar, it's not necessary. We are not here to impress each other, and our meager abilities will not impress God, especially if used in a prideful way, and particularly when used against those who love Jesus. He already knows the Bible. He wrote it. Jesus is impressed by our faithful love and trust in him. That is all you need. Jesus plus nothing. I read the Bible because it is centered on Jesus. It is not a chore or a source of discomfort. And true understanding of the Bible comes from the Holy Spirit. The Spirit gives life to the words that penetrates the heart, soul, and mind. Reading the Bible is a joy, because I love Jesus. If you have trouble understanding it, ask Jesus to help you. He created the universe. He can help you understand the Bible. If you come across dogmatic people insisting this or that, don't argue with them to no avail, rely on the Spirit of knowledge given by Jesus over all men. Every knee will bow before Jesus and no other. Mat 11:28-30 Come to me all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn of me, for I am meek and lowly in heart, and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. So many things in life are difficult and painful. Jesus is not the problem. He's the solution. He doesn't create burdens. He releives them. I couldn't get through this life without him. And I wouldn't want to. I am at peace. And no man can take it from me. Who are you speaking too? And, you seem to be addressing the OSAS issue but that's not on this thread...that's another thread. Just asking. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordMaster Posted November 19, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 286 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 19, 2020 brotan said... Quote 0% of verses and scriptures I read from you. But Paul says Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (1 Thessalonians 5:21). Lets take a look at something Jesus says in Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness. 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. This is also includes the rest of the commandments see Exodus 20:1-17. as of this day. I will only address this because you obviously do not understand the context and what's actually going on here (Mat. 19:17+). Jesus said this to try him, and to convince him that he had by no means kept the commandments, and that in supposing he had he was altogether deceived. The young man thought he had kept them, and was relying on them for salvation. It was of great importance, therefore, to convince him that he was, after all, a sinner. Christ did not mean to say that any man would be saved by the works of the law, for the Bible teaches plainly that such will not be the case, Rom. 3:20, Rom. 3:28; Rom. 4:6; Gal. 2:16; Eph. 2:9; 2Tim. 1:9. If you still think a person will go to heaven just by keeping the 10 commandments, then you really are deceived more than what I first figured. Like I said, it is obvious that you run your theology through your bias rather than using your brain cells and exegete the Scriptures (in all forms of context...immediate, chapter, book, covenant), and since you do not, there really is no reason to continue the conversation. Have a good day. .. Actually...I will add this, too, since you are obviously confused about the law. There are two laws mentioned in the NT Scriptures: the law of Moses (the 10 Commandments) and the Law of Christ, the covenant law of the New Covenant that we are under today if we are Christians. Here is an example that most in your camp fail at on a continual basis... Romans 3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. Romans 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. Which law does Paul refer to in Rom. 3:20? Which law does he refer to in Rom. 2:13? I already know that you can't tell which is which by your stand, so I will tell you. The law that he refers to in Rom. 3:20 is the law of Moses...the 10 Commandments that YOU insist men are still bound to today. The law he refers to in Rom. 2:13 is the Law of Christ. These two verses are 'contradictory' to one another until you learn covenant and the laws that come from different covenants. You are wrong, but your bias will not allow you to see it or confess it. And for that reason, there is no further cause for this conversation to continue. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bro.Tan Posted November 19, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 693 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 120 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, SwordMaster said: brotan said... I will only address this because you obviously do not understand the context and what's actually going on here (Mat. 19:17+). Jesus said this to try him, and to convince him that he had by no means kept the commandments, and that in supposing he had he was altogether deceived. The young man thought he had kept them, and was relying on them for salvation. It was of great importance, therefore, to convince him that he was, after all, a sinner. Christ did not mean to say that any man would be saved by the works of the law, for the Bible teaches plainly that such will not be the case, Rom. 3:20, Rom. 3:28; Rom. 4:6; Gal. 2:16; Eph. 2:9; 2Tim. 1:9. Being a long time since I heard some one say what Christ didn't or did mean to say, that's new. But...No, the young man kept all the Commandment from his youth up, but felt convicted when Jesus told to sale all he had and come follow him, for he had riches. You not reading that right. You should of took the time and post all those verses as I did for you. 7 minutes ago, SwordMaster said: If you still think a person will go to heaven just by keeping the 10 commandments, then you really are deceived more than what I first figured. Like I said, it is obvious that you run your theology through your bias rather than using your brain cells and exegete the Scriptures (in all forms of context...immediate, chapter, book, covenant), and since you do not, there really is no reason to continue the conversation. Now we must believe (have faith) Jesus died for us (Hebrews 10:4,9-10). This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct. That would be like a man getting paroled from prison and then ignoring the same laws that sent him to prison in the first place. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation (Hebrews 10:26-27). Let us avoid this at all costs, seeking a better reward. Jesus will return real soon and reward us all according to our works (Revelation 22:12). Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but continue to strive for the prize as Paul says in (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14). The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday on the seventh day of the week), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his. 7 minutes ago, SwordMaster said: Have a good day. .. Actually...I will add this, too, since you are obviously confused about the law. There are two laws mentioned in the NT Scriptures: the law of Moses (the 10 Commandments) and the Law of Christ, the covenant law of the New Covenant that we are under today if we are Christians. Here is an example that most in your camp fail at on a continual basis... Romans 3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. Romans 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. Which law does Paul refer to in Rom. 3:20? Which law does he refer to in Rom. 2:13? I already know that you can't tell which is which by your stand, so I will tell you. The law that he refers to in Rom. 3:20 is the law of Moses...the 10 Commandments that YOU insist men are still bound to today. The law he refers to in Rom. 2:13 is the Law of Christ. These two verses are 'contradictory' to one another until you learn covenant and the laws that come from different covenants. You are wrong, but your bias will not allow you to see it or confess it. And for that reason, there is no further cause for this conversation to continue. .. Let's take a look at Romans chapter 3. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (Romans 3:20) We have both laws within this verse. Notice the first part of the verse, "by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight." What law is this? It is the sacrificial law. Why? Remember in Hebrews the 10th chapter verse 4 it states, "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins." So, by the deeds of the sacrificial law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight. Now, look at the second part of the verse, "for by the law is the knowledge of sin." What law is this? The commandments. Why? Sin is the transgression of the law (1John 3:4), and if there is no law how would any of us have knowledge of sin. Let's take a look at the next verse. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; (Romans 3:21) Notice what Paul says, "The righteousness of God without the law is manifested." What law is this? It is the sacrificial law. Why? And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; (Colossians 2:13-14). We must understand this one thing brothers and sisters, the Bible never contradicts itself. Now we see what Law is nail to the cross. Allow Paul to put it plainly in the same chapter Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. (Roman 3:31). Paul and all the rest of the Prophets and Apostles are on the same page and are teaching us to keep the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bro.Tan Posted November 21, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 693 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 120 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 21, 2020 Paul says in (Rom. 11:22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. You had better continue in God’s goodness or you will be cut off. This is also the writing of thee Apostle Paul. You must continue to keep God’s laws if you expect to receive salvation. Also Paul says in (Colo. 1:22-23) (v.22) In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: (v.23) If ye continue in the faith grounded and settle, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister. You must continue in the faith and not be moved by the cares of the world. It’s more than confessing the name of Jesus, salvation is a work in progress you must take it one day at a time. It is a sad thing to believe that once you say that you believe on Christ your journey is done. You have only taken the first steps toward learning about the true and living God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted January 27, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,054 Content Per Day: 6.38 Reputation: 9,018 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted January 27, 2021 This thread contains a lot of discussion on 'law' and keeping 'the law'. Its profitable to understand what the Lord teaches us through Paul in Romans in order to understand just what Christ accomplished for us in His Work. Romans 7 and 8 does a bang up job. And these verses sort of sum up what we need to know. Rom. 8:2 (NAS95S) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, That word Nomos translated as law here can be also translated 'principle'. It is the 'principle' of law that has been replaced by another 'principle'-- and that 'principle' is the principle of the Spirit of Life in Christ. What the 'law' couldn't accomplish for man, Christ did/does. Its good to read Romans thoroughly and often. Whenever the subject of 'law keeping' comes up--remember these things to put the conversation in perspective and or context. No law keeping can save or keep saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordMaster Posted January 27, 2021 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 286 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2021 4 hours ago, Alive said: This thread contains a lot of discussion on 'law' and keeping 'the law'. Its profitable to understand what the Lord teaches us through Paul in Romans in order to understand just what Christ accomplished for us in His Work. Romans 7 and 8 does a bang up job. And these verses sort of sum up what we need to know. Rom. 8:2 (NAS95S) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, That word Nomos translated as law here can be also translated 'principle'. It is the 'principle' of law that has been replaced by another 'principle'-- and that 'principle' is the principle of the Spirit of Life in Christ. What the 'law' couldn't accomplish for man, Christ did/does. Its good to read Romans thoroughly and often. Whenever the subject of 'law keeping' comes up--remember these things to put the conversation in perspective and or context. No law keeping can save or keep saved. Yes indeed...and its also important to understand that not every case where Paul uses the word "law," that he is always addressing the law of Moses. He does not make a clear distinction to us because he was not writing to us...he was writing to his First Century Christian audience who did know the difference of when he was addressing the law of Moses or the Law of Christ. For example, here he is addressing the law of Moses, which Christ had fulfilled and abrogated: Romans 3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. Yet in the following verse, Paul is addressing the Law of Christ (otherwise he would be directly contradicting himself in the same letter): Romans 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. It is not always clear to us because we do not live in a covenant culture like they did in the First Century, and law always originates from covenant. The old covenant and all that came with it was gone when Paul was preaching, and this is why he says that no one will be made righteous by walking in obedience to the law of Moses...because they only place the law of Moses has today is for those who are not saved. We today are under the new covenant, with its new law, the Law of Christ. Anyone, according to Scripture, that does not walk in obedience to the law of Christ, is not in Christ and does not have eternal life, whether they believe in Christ or not. The only way to come to the full and accurate understanding of the gospel is to take the whole Word of God into account. When we do so, forsaking the false teachings of men, we find that we do have to do with maintaining our state of being in Christ. Blessings! .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted January 27, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,054 Content Per Day: 6.38 Reputation: 9,018 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted January 27, 2021 14 minutes ago, SwordMaster said: Yes indeed...and its also important to understand that not every case where Paul uses the word "law," that he is always addressing the law of Moses. He does not make a clear distinction to us because he was not writing to us...he was writing to his First Century Christian audience who did know the difference of when he was addressing the law of Moses or the Law of Christ. For example, here he is addressing the law of Moses, which Christ had fulfilled and abrogated: Romans 3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. Yet in the following verse, Paul is addressing the Law of Christ (otherwise he would be directly contradicting himself in the same letter): Romans 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. It is not always clear to us because we do not live in a covenant culture like they did in the First Century, and law always originates from covenant. The old covenant and all that came with it was gone when Paul was preaching, and this is why he says that no one will be made righteous by walking in obedience to the law of Moses...because they only place the law of Moses has today is for those who are not saved. We today are under the new covenant, with its new law, the Law of Christ. Anyone, according to Scripture, that does not walk in obedience to the law of Christ, is not in Christ and does not have eternal life, whether they believe in Christ or not. The only way to come to the full and accurate understanding of the gospel is to take the whole Word of God into account. When we do so, forsaking the false teachings of men, we find that we do have to do with maintaining our state of being in Christ. Blessings! .. No--I disagree with you. I am not referring to the law of Christ as you have laid it out. I am referencing the difference between the principle of law and law keeping as an attempt to finding redemption and the principle of the 'Spirit of Life' in Christ Jesus. Law keeping has zero to do with our gaining Redemption and neither does it have anything to do with keeping our salvation. Abiding in Christ, has nothing to do with salvation--rather it relates to our daily experience 'of and in Him'. I can abide in him experientially, or I can look away and become totally wrapped up in the world and the things in the world. There is loss there, but I do not come out of Christ. My life is hidden in Christ of God. I have been relocated by the Father's will and action 'into Christ' and nothing can change that. Please read what is on the other side of the link in my signature and I pray that you will gain understanding. Actually read both links. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordMaster Posted January 28, 2021 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 286 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28, 2021 5 hours ago, Alive said: Law keeping has zero to do with our gaining Redemption and neither does it have anything to do with keeping our salvation. There is a real Scriptural distinction between salvation from sin and eternal life, and by your remark you show that you confuse the two. "Law keeping" as you say doesn't have to do with salvation, on that point you are absolutely correct. However, according to Scripture, not the false doctrines of men, you maintain abiding in Christ by walking in obedience to Christ. That is not only Scripture, that is how God ordained it to be since salvation and eternal life are both covenant gifts. Perhaps you do not understand Biblical covenants and their principles of operation; God patterned His Biblical covenants after those principles so man can understand His Word. 5 hours ago, Alive said: My life is hidden in Christ of God. I have been relocated by the Father's will and action 'into Christ' and nothing can change that. According to Scripture, your life is only "hidden in Christ" as long as you remain abiding in Christ. If you cease to do so - again, according to Scripture - then you are no longer in Christ. There are a plethora of passages that teach that Biblical truth contrary to the false teachings of men. 5 hours ago, Alive said: Please read what is on the other side of the link in my signature and I pray that you will gain understanding. Yes...I could only read a few lines, because it full of calvinistic nonsense doctrines. I have a far better understanding of Scripture since I discovered those doctrines as false years ago, but thanks anyway. I pray God will bless you with understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy D. Mouse Posted January 28, 2021 Group: Junior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 108 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 hour ago, SwordMaster said: calvinistic nonsense doctrines hoo-wah !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwalker Posted January 28, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,054 Content Per Day: 0.59 Reputation: 1,753 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/09/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28, 2021 The KJV is just a translation of the bible into English, it is not the only true bible out there, most people in the world do not even speak English don't be ethnocentric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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